Williams complains of Guevara's racial epithet

Thanks, guys. I hope this is a misunderstanding, but if Guevara was racist toward Williams, he deserves to be severely punished for it.

We're all in this league together and we need to present a united front against racism and bigotry. We don't want that garbage in our backyard in MLS.

 

What Guevara said, we don't know. But the way Andy was complaining, Guevara said something. I watched the replay of the match online, and at the end of extra time, Williams is complaining to multiple officials, and the MSG crew says, "I don't know what Williams is complaining about..."

 

here's the only shot I have of it. from DK:

 

I just watched the game again as well. I was wrong before, the hard foul that started it all came right after the goal. But at the next dead ball, NYRB made a sub, and before the game got started again Williams was talking to the 4th official. If you watch the MLSnet stream, right after Martins comes on, while the center ref is talking to Guevara, Williams enters the screen. You can hear what sounds like "Why would I f-ing lie?" then it is repeated with another word added add the end (possibly the official's name). You can't tell for sure that it is Williams who is speaking, but he is sort of patting his chest as you hear the words so it seems likely. The center ref says something to Guevara then lets him go, and as he's walking away Williams yells something at Guevara and points at him. After the game Williams again approaches the 4th ref. What is somewhat interesting is that Williams only seems interested in talking to the 4th official (who is black). I can't remember nor is there any evidence from the video of Williams talking directly to the center ref, who looks like he's hispanic. I'm not saying Williams never did speak to the center ref, just that there isn't any evidence of it.

Basically the only thing that can be said for sure is that Guevara did come up and say something to Williams, and shortly after Williams was very pissed and went to the ref to talk about it. It is pretty clear from his gestures that he is talking to the ref about Guevara. Pretty much everything Williams has said about the incident can be backed up by either video or eyewitness evidence, except what Guevara actually said. While this isn't enough to "legally" indict him so to speak, in the court of public opinion I don't see how Guevara gets out of this one. I think the only good explanation that vindicates Guevara is the same one Nowak used. "I said _____, not _______ and he just didn't hear me right!" Andy could obviously be lying, but why would he go through with all of it?

 

So did these allegations ever prove true?

If it did, it credits Andy for being truthful.

 

"Amado hardly speaks English so for the word monkey to be used, Amado doesn't know that word," said Red Bulls coach Mo Johnston.

Did he say that to defend or insult him? That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard!

I think it's time for the MLS to 'Embrace the Colors' in more than one way. The 'disciplanary committee' needs to get to the bottom of this, fast, and take action. Even if it turns out that he didn't say monkey, but rather to send his monkey to the hospital, action should be taken.

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Send your Monkey back to Hospital!

 

Strange that this has happened twice publicly for AW and twice publicly for RSL. Not saying these events didn't transpire, but an oddity nonetheless.

 

Strange, yes. I think some other words apply too, tragic, disgusting, enfuriating, discouraging, sad.

 

I am no fan of Williams. The guy never got into shape in chicago. And he was the laziest player on the field. Ocassionally he would make a nice pass. He was at soldier field I called him "fat boy" a few times. Then a few youngsters started chanting fat boy in his direction. Within a few minutes the PA announcer barked " Profanity not allowed at Soldier field etc etc". So you know he is a delicate flower craving attention similar to Eto. Williams might actually think he is Eto. All to denigrate the game. Can you imagine if the NY media picks up on this? I hope Williams encourages the Jamaican league to permit a racially balanced league.

 

Ibid. I am clearly in agreement should the allegations be correct.

 

*Do you realize what sorts of things Eto'o has been called by players and fans? Are you aware that he has had a rather difficult time as of late dealing with these things? He's been called "monkey"as well, and worse! Hundreds of chanting fans have slandered him! Why? Because of his play or behavior? No, because of his color. Racist, disgusting, vile things.

*Andy isn't claiming that he was called fat or lazy, he's claiming that somebody verbally degraded him becasue of his color.

*How these things would qualify them as 'delicate flowers' is beyond me.

 

I didn't realize that not being racist was part of the genetic makeup of Hondurans.

Another pathetic response was the one made by Mo Johnston, basically "He doesn't speak English well enough to know how to say that." He certainly knew English well enough to figure out what all the supporters were yelling at him, because he responded to it in a perfectly appropriate way (appropriate meaning in a way that showed he clearly understood what he was responding to, not appropriate as in socially acceptable). I find this excuse very hard to believe.

What is interesting is that Guevara hasn't stated what he did say, if it wasn't "monkey" (unless I missed that part somewhere). It was obvious that he made some sort of comment to Andy. I saw it happen and I'm sure there is video evidence somewhere. If he tries to claim he didn't say anything to Andy, he is 100% lying. That's why he looks very guilty to me. He has to state what it is that he said. If he pleads the fifth, well, just ask Mark Mcguire what that means.

 

I have been called far worse at a soccer game. Let me give you a real very recent case of racism. On April 18th in Springfield MO 4 black college football players beat up a white male and than parked their car ON TOP OF HIM! He is in critical condition. You may call me names but please dont park your car on me. Eto? Europeans are no longer allowed to play football in Cameroon. Same for JJamaica.

 

I posted this in News and Analysis:

Quick question:

If Beasley called Michael Jordan a "chango" or "monkey", is Beas racist?

If Malcolm X called MLK a "chango", is he racist?

No. Why? B/c they're black.

What Guevara is saying is... Take a look at his skin and you'll see the same vestiges of slavery as his accuser.

In fact, most of the blacks (and there are a ton of them) in Central America actually are Garifundas: former English slaves who were kicked off of their Caribbean islands and forced to resettle on the eastern seaboard of Central America.

Once there, many mixed in w/ indigenous cultures and/or criollos (white Euro).

Unlike the English colonies, which standardized oppression and codified it in law and in practice, in Spanish America law and practice were different, mainly b/c of the sheer numbers of blacks in many colonies/countries. In short, we have a different relationship to our blackness than Anglophone cultures. It's not a demonized and vilified to the same degree.

Don't get me wrong: blacks have a long way to go to reach equality throughout the Americas, both in the US and Latin America. But the reality is that unless Guevara were as white as ghost, it's silly for him to try to insult somebody b/c of their skin color when God and his country know that... duh... he's got a lil' bit of Africa in him and a huge number of his countrymen come from the Caribbean.

 

It doesn't matter if these instances were more or less severe than others; they are being discriminated and verbally attacked due to their color, end of story. WTF gives you the right to scrutinize them? The 1950's just called, they want to know when you're coming back.

 

So if these factors make him perhaps more genitically related to african americans than anglos, according to your argument, that is all the more reason for him not to say something like that.

This line of thinking is like a wet paper bag; it can't hold anything.

 

I am simply attempting to educate you. There is in fact real racism occurring around the world. Save the outrage for the real incidences of racism. Your fund of knowledge seems to be limited to the 50's and 60's. That world has long since vanished. In the world of violence we live in today(Rhodesia, Springfield, MO, etc), I encourage you to be judicious in your use of the word "attack". I ask you to stand up against racism with me in Rhodesia, Cameroon, Springfield, Uganda,Mexico, etc). People are dying. I ask you to be much more sensitive and incorporate a global understanding to these matters.

 

Which just makes Guevara look like more of an idiot if he in fact said what he is being accused of. What I want to hear him say is "I said funky, not monkey" or something. Why didn't he tell the reporters what he said, instead of just saying "I can't be racist because I have a common heritage with Andy."

And I think the term racism may be too general and cliched for this instance. If Beas called MJ a monkey, it may not necessarily be racism, but I think it would nonetheless be insulting (if that's the way he intended it). Racism is just the catch phrase. All over the world there are people who hate other people because of some kind of ethnic issue, even though those two people do share some kind of common heritage. Just look at the Arabs and the Jews.

Also, I don't think a person who would call another person a monkey is thinking rationally anyway. I don't think most "racists" think about the fact that they are racist. But I think strong emotions in the heat of the moment can cause people to say things they wouldn't normally say, which is what most likely happened here. Amado was just fouled very hard by Andy and probably just let it slip out. What do you say to someone when you're mad at them for fouling you? I see this all the time when I play soccer. A cheap shot or a hard tackle by somebody of another race just seems to piss people off even worse. I've seen White people, Blacks, Hispanics, and Asians shout out racial slurs during soccer games or other sports when they get mad at a hard foul or overly physical play. But that doesn't mean Amado shouldn't be held accountable for what he said. Even if it wasn't "racist," degrading remarks of any kind should be punished. What I mean by degrading is criticizing someone for who are what they are (it can be anything, not just race), as opposed to what they do.

 

MLS needs to root out the racism thats going on in the league.

 

I'm just going through the threads and info here, and this seems like a case of he said, he said. In terms of accusing of something as dire as racist here, there needs to be evidence of it. A third party or evidence or something has to show that Guevara used racist terminology.

If he did, I want him banned (and this is coming from one of the most staunchest Guevara supporters as well). If he called Andy Williams a monkey, then he has no place in American sports. This goes for anyone that brings racism to this game of soccer, including players, coaches and fans.

But Guevara is denying he ever said that and maybe he was misheard. Either way, if there's no evidence other than Andy Williams saying he heard what he heard, there can be no way that action can take place.

Remember folks, we're in a country where we are innocent unless proven guilty. We in America, especially with the media we have today, seem to forget that the accused does not mean the guilty.

Not trying to troll here ... I come in peace ...