Soccer metrics to evaluate players

Discussion in 'San Jose Earthquakes' started by mjlee22, Dec 26, 2009.

  1. Boysinblue

    Boysinblue Member

    Jul 31, 2011
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Opta's F24 data(the most advanced stuff they have for MLS) doesn't keep track of all player's positions, just ball events. Some guys incorporate a ton more stuff like some things you mention. Here is a good write up of all the factors in a more 'advanced' xG model.
     
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  2. asdf2

    asdf2 Member+

    Oct 11, 2004
    San Francisco
    Thanks. I’ll read that.

    My point I suppose is not that xG is useless (or analytics), just that xG is currently not what a lot of fans including myself think/thought it is: an approximation of who should have won the game.

    Whereas what it really is = a rough approximation of score based on some simplistic metrics based solely on shots.

    Over the course of a season it’ Probably pretty helpful, but over the small sample size of one game it can be pretty limited.
     
  3. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

    Oct 18, 1999
    Vancouver, WA, USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It sort of measures whether or not the GK had a great day, and or whether the shot takers were good or poor.

    Stats can help us quantify certain elements of the game.

    I'd like to see successful versus unsuccessful throw-in data. That is how many times did your team retain possession on a throw-in, and how many times did they lose possession. And you'd have to consider was the ball lost after three or four touches? Was that the dribbler's fault? Or the thrower's fault?

    So even something as simple and easy to calculate as that could become much more complex when you get into the nitty-gritty.

    None of this is really scientific yet, but we're starting to get there.

    Go Quakes!!
    Fire Stahre!!

    - Mark
     
  4. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Yup. :)
     
  5. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    Oh it's scientific. It's just that the science can get better. The perfect is the enemy of the good and all that.
     
  6. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
  7. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I just finished reading Sebastian Abbot’s “The Away Game”. Don, this is the book you bought for me at Abbot’s book signing at Avaya.

    This is an excellent book, and I recommend it for those interested in how Qatar’s Aspire Academy evaluated players for its “Football Dreams” program. Abbot also researched other programs and discusses the newer technologies, which even try to measure soccer intelligence and ability to see the game. The program started recruiting players in 2007 and was terminated in 2016. Abbot covers players from the first 2 classes.

    For those of you who want to learn how coaches and such evaluate players, read the first half of the book where players are recruited, and the ending pages where he discusses various reasons why players failed as pros.

    The last thing — when I read that the discrepancy in age cheating was 3-7 years, the first player I thought about was Freddy Adu. I always thought he looked 20 when he was supposedly 14. Too bad they didn’t do MRI wrist measurements back then. I guess they started doing it around 2009.
     
  8. hc897

    hc897 Member+

    May 3, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
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  9. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks for posting, that was a very helpful episode — an Analytics 101 approach to soccer analytics. I may have to listen to it again!

    However, I was a little bothered by 2 statements about 9 minutes from the end: first, that Harrison Crow likes Marco Urena, and second that he said Urena “used to play with Carlos Wondolowski”. :eek: Bit of a gaf there...
     
  10. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Yeah, there are three Ws in Wondowlowski. :)

    wondowlowski.jpg
     
  11. hc897

    hc897 Member+

    May 3, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Haha, yeah, I caught that as well. Not sure if you've ever had to go on and do a recording like that before, but it is surprisingly easy to misspeak. I found it more amusing than anything else.

    My only note to them about Urena would have been that the Quakes had to basically choose among Wondolowski, Urena, and Hoesen to leave exposed for the expansion draft, and leaving Urena open was clearly the right choice based on actual results. Those kinds of details are easy to overlook when you aren't focused on one team like many of us on this board are.
     
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  12. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually Carlos Wondolowski has kind of a ring to it!
     
  13. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This company, IMPECT.com has a metric for “packing” where they analyze how often attackers outplay defenders, getting behind them with a pass or dribble. I’m unclear as to why such a metric would not already be in OPTA data, but they say they use 60 college students to collect the data, requiring 6 hours of analysis per game.
     
  14. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    This team is a disgrace. I can't believe the Quakes can't find , scout or pick a group of college all stars or even free agents and/or MLS veterans , groom them to win more than four MLS games. Its just not believable that it can't be done. I'm sure they can find 11 players somewhere. This is ridiculous!
     
  15. Earthshaker

    Earthshaker BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 12, 2005
    The hills above town
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  16. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Worse that incredible.
     
  17. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Falvo, this is the soccer metrics thread...
     
  18. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Metrics meaning tactics? Ok here is a tactic, play Catenaccio and counterattack! We wouldn't lose 1-5 at home!
     
  19. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    no falvo, metrics as in measuring individual player performance via sensor monitoring, OPTA type tools, etc.
    Not tactics, not rants about the ownership...
     
  20. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Player Sensoring or monitoring? Isn’t that monitoring a players progress or what he does in s game? I don’t get it.
     
  21. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    look back at the beginnings of this thread... Metrics, statistics, data, moneyball, that kind of thing.
    We've pretty much stayed on topic, altho i think we may have also journeyed into areas of sports medicine.
     
  22. Earthshaker

    Earthshaker BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 12, 2005
    The hills above town
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hey mj, you may find this more productive.:D
    [​IMG]
     
  23. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    @mjlee22

    How about that, you were the last one to post in the Sports Medicine thread!:thumbsup:

    Jun 27, 2018
     
  24. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I had to give it a try
     
  25. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Some of this statistical analysis by Colin Etnire just feels so wrong compared to the eye test, such as Godoy being one of the best midfielders in MLS, and Magnus being a good attacking asset. But other than those two players, the rest of the analysis seems pretty true. Whaddya all think?
    • 1046868322912997381 is not a valid tweet id
     

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