Semifinals, Third Place, and Final - All matches [R]

Discussion in 'Women's World Cup' started by soccernutter, Jun 30, 2019.

  1. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    Don't drink beer but like cheese
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1 soccernutter, Jun 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
    This is for the remaining matches, have at it.

    But don't forget to read the Mod Warning.

    And don't forget, there will be results discussed, so if you want to watch the match later, but maintain the suspense, please don't read this thread until later.
     
  2. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    USA through to the final; questionable offside call in their favor but then a soft PK against them, so I guess it kinda evens out? Feel bad for England though.

    Really hoping the Netherlands dispatches Sweden tomorrow; they're much more fun to watch and I'm tired of USA-Sweden games.
     
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  3. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Also, Netherlands' defense would be much easier to beat for you, isn't it? ;)
     
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  4. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    There's one thing bugging me: this USWNT's defense doesn't look good at all, and it showed yesterday also: comical almost-own-gol, CBs splitted in two, no proper marking on the wings... So I wonder: how on earth there is not a single National Team out there that is able to exploit this shortcomings without conceding some goals in advance? :x3:

    I've got the feeling that if a team could manage to do that and to play some more in US half, the goals would be coming. Instead, all the other teams allowed US to win this WWC through the simple strategy of "let's forgot about defense, it doesn't count: we just go forward and score one goal more". :x3: Maybe, some people actually like this kind of strategy, I find it sloppy instead and I still can't wrap around the concept that a team can be the best in the world and win a World Cup while showcasing a so questionable defense!

    It would be much easier for me to swallow US' final win, if they had a consistent and sound defense, one that could convey to me a convinction along the lines of "Ok, they were hands down the best team all around, in every department". Instead, I've got the feeling that USNT are winning the WWC despite their defense, and this is much harder to swallow and not something I like in a champion team.
     
  5. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because those teams spend too much time defending. ;):D:whistling:
     
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  6. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Can I ask you this: Which team (out of ALL the teams that played this WWC) do you think has such a defense?
     
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  7. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You make some good points, and defense was the biggest concern for most US fans coming into this WWC. But the backline held firm in the face of an onslaught during the France game, so I thought they acquitted themselves rather well. It helped that France couldn't shoot to save their life. However, the backline definitely made some dumb mistakes in the England game. But still they have [mostly] held firm against some very good teams, and there's some truth to the fact that a good team can make another good team look bad.
     
  8. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's hard to argue, though, that the US doesn't defend when they've played four quality teams -- Sweden, Spain, France, England -- and outscored them 8-3. Three goals given up against those teams isn't really poor defense. But, their defense looks different, perhaps, than what many expect. They play relatively high pressure, but they also play their defensive line very high when they're defending the way they want to. And, their high pressure looks designed to force play into the area of the field where the US wants it. So, teams are faced with either playing the ball on the ground through a very compressed area full of players or to play it over the top. France solved this for a while in the second half and England solved it some of the time, but overall the US has been able to make it work to the tune of giving up only 3 goals in four games against the top teams in the world.

    And, you rightly point out that the other teams haven't been good finishers. More than anything, I've been impressed that the US has players who can score goals, so far a lot more so than other teams.
     
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  9. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Much easier? Nah. As you mention in the first sentence of your next post, the US defense has always looked somewhat suspect this KO phase, even if so far it hasn't ultimately cost them much yet. In a question of facing Netherlands' offence or Sweden's defense, I'm not looking forward to either.
     
  10. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    No-one, actually. It was more some kind of a "philosophical" statement than a comparison to other teams: I would expect a champion defense from a champion team. Of course, if no team at the WWC has this kind of champion defense, I will have to be content with a champion team without a champion defense. :coffee: (I know sipping a cup of caffe looks outdated, since yesterday, but I couldn't find an emoticon with a cup of tea).
     
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  11. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    Don't drink beer but like cheese
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When I saw that replay, I immediately thought of England v. Cameroon. It's not karma or justice or some other such thing, but consistent by the officials.
     
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  12. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Personally (after having watched the play a couple of times; not when watching live) I don't think the offside call was all that close. In fact, imo, it was clear enough that I think a FIFA-level AR could have called it live without the benefit of VAR, if the AR's were still supposed to flag close decisions. White just started her run a touch early, anticipating but not waiting on that flick.
     
  13. Weltmann

    Weltmann Member

    Sep 9, 2012
    The Usa will be very hard for the Netherlands to beat and I would advise them to slow the game down and not go toe to toe in the first 45 minutes. They should try to conserve energy as the Usa is very fit and has a lot of gas left at the end of games. Van de Sanden vs Dunn should be a real interesting match-up.
     
  14. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    A good idea except that the U.S. will want to play fast and will come out very aggressively, and so I doubt the Dutch will have the luxury of slowing the game down. That would be nice--but I'm not sure it can be pulled off against the U.S.

    The Netherlands need to defend, and defend hard and well, in the first 20 or more minutes and try to grow into the game. It's funny, this Dutch came into the tourney with a well-deserved rep for being an attacking powerhouse and somewhat weak defensively and yet the opposite has been true: The attack has struggled all tournament to get out of second or third gear--they've just not found any joy or magic in the attacking third and have been well-defended in just about every game--but the Dutch defending as been strong. The midfield trio has played extremely well defensively, and in addition Bloodworth as been excellent, Van der Gragt and Van Dongen have been very solid, and Van Lunteren, to me, has been super. She was fantastic today on the right, shutting down the Swedes all day. Can they keep it for one more game? Let's hope so. I fear that the Dutch will play a half on Sunday and then their legs will just go in the second half. The team hasn't rotated personnel at all, and will be going on one day less rest. So we'll see. I will say they've shown themselves to be quite fit, and I hope they've got one more strong game in them.
     
  15. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A lot of Dutch players looked to be dragging by the end of the 2nd half.
    Some, like Groenen, were still running hard, but, as a team, they looked spent.
     
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  16. Thomsen

    Thomsen Member+

    Aug 6, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Without Ertz I don’t want to imagine how vulnerable they could’ve looked behind there so good for US that they have her

    Hands down their best player so far in the tournament imo
    and their best player in 2015
     
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  17. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Unfortunately, Desiree Van Lunteren's tackle in the box in yesterday's match was probably a foul that went unnoticed, but apart from that, her overall performance in the semifinal was very close to what I'd expect from a World-Champion level Defender! :thumbsup:
     
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  18. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
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  19. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Brilliant Dutch repped this.
  20. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't agree. First, I simply don't accept the frame shown as proof of offside captures the exact moment of the pass. The frames-per-second capability of the system is simply inadequate for the intended purpose. Second, I don't see the VAR following their own procedure here. The issue isn't whether Dahlkemper keeps White onside (she doesn't), it's whether Sauerbrunn keeps White onside - and not with Sauerbrunn's feet but with her body, her fanny, her derriere.

    If you see the longer clip including the pass coming into Jill Scott, you can tell White's trying to key off of Sauerbrunn, who's in White's field of vision. Not Dahlkemper who's behind White the way she's facing. And 'Broon is hunched over in a bit of a crouch. I want to see the VAR image with a vertical line to Sauerbrunn's derriere to see if, even in this frame, White is offside in relation to Sauerbrunn.
     
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  21. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Frames per second MIGHT only be an issue when you have the lines overlapping (an argument I don't really agree with, but regardless that horse has already left the barn). This wasn't that; the lines are not overlapping and there's a strip of seeable grass between the two. In other words, it wasn't nearly as close as others already called in this tournament.

    Also the red line is the one Sauerbrunn's rear would have to be even with to hold White on, and its clearly not. Her ass isn't that big, and frankly I think its clear that her entire body is on the other side of the blue line. The line is drawn from Dahlkemper's heel because that was the point of the 2nd to last defender, not Sauerbrunn. Again this wasn't all that close. White just started her run off the initial pass and not the flick. Offside.
     
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  22. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    While the forwards and some of the mids have got media attention since the Euro17 title, it is really players like Van Lunteren and Bloodworth and Groenen and Spitse--doing defensive work--that have been crucial to this team. Van Lunteren doesn't even have a team next year, at the moment, though I can't imagine that somebody better than decent won't sign her. She is better than Van Es, who just signed with Everton. Van Veenendaal is without a team as well, as far as I know.
     
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  23. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The frames-per-second problem has nothing to do with overlapping lines. In the Ref Forum, someone used thr example of someone running a 40-yard dash in 6 seconds. At 60 fps, they can travel something like 4 inches between frames (I'm not checking the math accurately right now); at 30 fps it's 8 inches.

    You can't tell definitively. It's not clear. Because her fanny is off the ground. Haven't people seen VAR images where they draw lines to a player's shoulders because that's the furthest part forward? We'd need those lines from this angle to tell for sure (and we'd still have the frames-per-second problem)

    And I'll post a different angle because it's a little more clear how Sauerbrunn is in a half-crouch. (I'm not claiming this frame is the exact moment either)
    (Couldn't post a screenshot I took because I'm technologically deficient) or, oh, did it work?! I'm so daft.

    US vs England White offside midfield angle.jpg
     
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  24. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here's the frame I showed before with vanishing lines drawn using the 18 yard and one of the grass stripes and a line drawn from the vanishing point to Sauerbrunn's derriere and beyond. This is NOT definitive AT ALL or meant to be seen as such. My skills aren't that good. But it illustrates how close it could be. In this rendition (which may not be terribly accurate), White's hips (roughly same height off the ground as Sauerbrunn's fanny) appears to be behind the line. All I'm trying to illustrate is how the graphic representation of the offside line changes in the image as you use as reference some part of the body off the ground as opposed to the feet.

    US vs England White offside midfield angle workcopy.jpg
     

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