I repped because it is my top 3 favourite dinho goal along with the solo vs Haiti in 05/06 and his debut Barcelona goal vs Seville 03/04 HOWEVER you are mistaken if you think this is comparable to what I’m talking about Dinho flicked a “dead ball” over a defender which is different from zidane controlling a long ball and changing it’s direction simultaneously to sombrero a defender CRs sombrero goal vs Barcelona in 2012 in the super copa is a contemporary example when he recieved a long ball and flicked it over the defender with a backheel in one move Neymar Jr nearly scored a similar kind of goal vs Villarreal in 2015 where he controlled a cross from Luis Suarez and flicked it over the defender to score a goal (Nearly because Neymar required two touches the first to control the ball with his chest and the 2nd to do the sombrero) Zidane and Cristiano did both(control+sombrero) in one move which requires a higher degree of technical skill IMO Not to mention Cristiano did his sombrero without looking or perhaps even knowing for certain where the ball was I think it could be a contender for his greatest piece of skill and perhaps it would’ve been recognised as such had it not been for the bad finish
First of all, Zidane didn't even do a sombrero on his play. At least the one he posted. But it is indeed a great piece of skill. But one that comes given the situation presented in a game. If you don't think Ronaldinho couldn't do that given the opportunity, you don't know him enough. Second, I see more skill and successful execution in Ronaldinho's (and Zidane's) move than Cristiano's. Both include sublime touch and precision. Cristiano's flick is a hoof with the side of his foot way up in the air that he has to chase down with no precision. Then he mis-traps the ball losing the timing of the play. I am not saying it's not a great play, but in terms of technique and touch, it's not even close to Ronaldinho's and Zidane's plays.
What was I thinking Expecting you to give a level headed assessment on a goal scored by Cristiano ronaldo against Barcelona is like attempting to get water out of a stone The sombrero ronaldo perfomed was 101% intentional Not a miskick or kick “with a hoof” (I thought pigs had hooves... but anyways) The technical difficulty in that goal is obvious to see. Ronaldinho flicked a dead ball over a defender.its great but isn’t exactly unique or unprecedented. His goal vs Haiti if we can please ignore the level of opposition was VERY unique Having held of 2 defenders with great ball retention skills+strength he performed a roulette on a 3rd defender,dribbled the 4th and then rounded the keeper to score That is a goal of the highest technical quality.A perfect goal Btw I’ve seen maradona score 5 sombrero goals before and imo he was a average finisher so with the finishing of a striker you can only imagine the added solo goals and technical goals he would’ve amassed in his career
There is no right or wrong. It's my opinion. The ball is played a little behind Ronaldo's run (or he overruns it) ... the only logical thing he could do is that flick which in my opinion is not more special than the other 2 examples because it lacks that refined touch. Mind you, Zidane is a Madrid player .. so it has nothing to do with being a Barca fan. What Zidane did IMO was more amazing. Ronaldinho receives the ball and doesn't have to do what he did, and yet he still did it. He didn't use any momentum from the run like Ronaldo did. He did it from dead stop which in this case IMO it's tougher to complete the play because it's harder to get the ball on the other side. Then his 2nd flick is also perfect to beat the 2nd defender and the shot decent enough. It's not a matter of opinion that Ronaldo's trap of the ball is not great. You can easily see it he mis-traps it. He has to circle back around to scoop the ball. But he had enough time and space to do it. Then his finish is a blind shot with no precision which could have been as easily blocked. It's an iconic play, but IMO not as good as the other 2.
@carlito86 I think this explains it all. One thing is clear, we all agree that Ronaldinho, Zidane, and CR7 had technique of the highest level but for whatever reason, we will think that some skills are more difficult than others. Personally I know one of the most serious students of the game I have ever meet. He believes that Ronaldinho and R9 are the greatest dribblers ever because they could beat you with a move without depending on acceleration. Which I think could be a valid point (I think @leadleader agrees with the point on some level) but I don't agree with that 100%. This person doesn't even consider Messi as arguably the greatest dribbler ever. Not even Maradona. But puts R9 and Ronaldinho in his own category for dribbling. The point is, we just have different measurements of judging greatness. I don't think we should get too caught up in whether Zidane, Ronaldinho, or CR7 had the greatest touch because you could make a case there is no real true way to make an objective argument considering how great they all were
The sombrero seems to be neymars signature move and perhaps he has almost perfected it(almost maradona remains the greatest exponent of the sombrero) Most technical specialists can also do it but it isn’t their preferred move CR or R9 prefer the step over or elastico,zidane the roulette,Ronaldinho the elastico and sombrero etc Maradona did everything and more including some rare skills for Napoli that haven’t been seen since(by any player) Pelé tried a few things for example if you watch some propaganda videos by Bella kona you will see him present examples of contemporary technical specialists performing a skill and he will show Pele 60 years ago doing what he believes to be the same thing. The sad reality is a lot of the time they aren’t even the same skills. Say what you like but maradonas technical ability on a football pitch has yet to be equalled let alone surpassed by any footballer. I think a convincing argument that he is the best ever can be structured around this claim. Arguments that he is the best based on career achievements or importance to his teams are really a “dead end” with nothing convincing I have seen to substantiate this
I heard of a goal one time where Pele supposedly did a sombrero over 3 players in a row and then over the goalkeeper and then scored without the ball touching the ground. against Juventus!!! Don't know what you think about that but it sounds obviously like an exaggeration which can tend to happen. A simulation is on the DVD called 'Pele Eterno'. This could be true. I would be lying if I said anyone had BETTER technique than Maradona. Although the technique of other great players is so high it's not enough to claim Maradona the best based on that. I mean really, how can you quantify how much better Maradona's technique was then Zidane, Ronaldinho, Messi, and CR7. Is it so much better that you can quantify him the greatest player. No chance. To be fair to Maradona judging players in their peak times of play would be the best for judging the greatest player ever instead of their careers in totality
I hate to say this, but that Pelé goal wasn't against Juventus from Italy. It was against a team in Sao Paulo city also called Juventus.
Put Ronaldo against an amateur team he couldn't perform 3 sombreros in a row. Probably mis-trap after the first one.
Speculation Ronaldo did a multiple sombrero over a bull that had Better defensive technique then the defenders Pele faced in state leagues Lol Jokes aside The multiple sombrero goal by Pele vs fake juventus is probably a myth and it was recounted by eye witnesses who were very old at the time Their memory of events that date back 50 years are most probably unreliable No video footage=as real as Hercules/Achilles or any other Greek legend
Nah .. apparently there are newspapers writing and illustration from the time of his goal. Anyways, Pelé applied a perfect sombrero in a WC final with perfect control and finish ... at 17.
MARADONA 10 NO-PK GOALS IN 30 MATCHES 1984/1985 AGE 24 7 NO PK GOALS IN 29 MATCHES 1985/1986 AGE 25 7 NO PK GOALS IN 29 MATCHES 1986/1987 AGE 26 11 NO PK GOALS IN 28 MATCHES 1987/1988 AGE 27 8 NO PK GOALS IN 26 MATCHES 1988/1989 AGE 28 9 NO PK GOALS IN 28 MATCHES 1989/1990 AGE 29 0 NO PK GOALS IN 18 MATCHES 1990/1991 AGE 30 52 NO PK GOALS IN 188 MATCHES.Hardly impressive, still more when Napoli scored 280 GOALS, 52/280 = 18,57% NO PK GOAL CONTRIBUTION. 81 GOALS INCLUDING ALL PK, 81/280 = 28.92% All his carrer with Napoli, 115/401 = 28.67% (45 PK GOALS) PLATINI 15 NO PK GOALS IN 29 MATCHES 1982/1983 AGE 27 17 NO PK GOALS IN 28 MATCHES 1983/1984 AGE 28 14 NO PK GOALS IN 30 MATCHES 1984/1985 AGE 29 10 NO PK GOALS IN 30 MATCHES 1985/1986 AGE 30 2 NO PK GOALS IN 28 MATCHES 1986/1987 AGE 31 58 NO PK GOALS IN 145 MATCHES. Juventus scored 233 GOALS, 58/233 = 24,89% NO PK GOAL CONTRIBUTION. 68 GOALS INCLUDING ALL PK, 68/233 = 29.18%. All his carrer with Juventus, ____________________________________________________________ So, OFFICIAL GAMES (WITH ALL PENALTIES) 1.1) ZICO 1983-1984 UDINESE (COPPA ITALIA AND SERIE A) = 43.63 1) PELÉ, 58-65 SANTOS = 42.58 2) ZICO, 74-83 FLAMENGO = 39.50 3) CRISTIANO RONALDO, REAL MADRID = 38.68 4) MESSI, 09-10 17-18 BARCELONA = 37.30 5) PUSKAS, REAL MADRID = 33.98 6) PLATINI, JUVENTUS ITALIA SERIE A = 29.18 7) MARADONA, NAPOLI = 28.67 8) PUSKAS, HONVED = 28.56 if you take out the penalty goals, Maradona would have the biggest drop to 17.5% less than Zico in the season with 30-31year old in Italian competitions, less than half of peak Pelé, and much less than Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo and much less than Platini and Puskas too. Note: I don't evaluate penalty goals as indicative of a good scorer. NON-PK GOALS 1) PELÉ, 58-65 SANTOS = 37.93 2) ZICO, 83-84 UDINESE SERIE A AND COPPA ITALIA = 36.36 2.1) ZICO, 74-83 FLAMENGO = 32.68 2) MESSI, 09-10 17-18 BARCELONA = 32 3) CRISTIANO RONALDO, REAL MADRID = 31.46 4) PLATINI JUVENTUS SERIE A = 24.89 5) MARADONA NAPOLI = 17.45
Nice data but Pele scored 170 penalties in his career according to some sources which you have clearly not deducted https://www.xtratime.org/forum/348-...-penalty-convertion-ratio.html#/topics/263174
Nobody claimed maradona in Napoli was as good a scorer as Pele in Santos so a comparison is completely ridiculous If advanced stats went back 60 years they’d probably show Pele never made 2% of of the long balls maradona accumulated Different roles and different players In terms of influence Golden rule Goal+assist(sadly no assist record for Pele) Maradona 89/90 singlehandedly won the scudetto 16 goals+16 assists out of 57 team goals:56% involvement Pele in 1963 scored 75 goals out of 152 teams goals:49% involvement Let’s say Pele made 10-15 assists He is just under 60% direct involvement in his teams goals So going by your criteria maradona at his very best matched Pele in terms of influence but fell short in consistency At World Cup level Pele failed to equal maradona 86 5 goals+5 assists out of 14 team goals which remains the standard for every player to be judged by Overall Pele had the best career in consistency Maradona matched him in terms of peak influence Maradona 86 was better than any of international tournament than Pele Pele was demonstrably superior to maradona in continental Cup competitions (copa libertadores,uefa Cup,European Cup) Too close to call which many choosing maradona because of a style preference Not to mention he played in a more defensive era and had technical ability in abundance (considerably more than Pele) Maradona >Pele By a hairline
Shit post as always. Pelé better in numbers, NT carrer, club carrer , impact, titles, everything. No one player can compare with Pelé all things considered, to be honest. Pelé is the biggest World Cup name and Pelé WC finals are imo much better than whatever Maradona WC or Cup America finals, Pelé had better impact in competitive games for Brazil as well: https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/pele-was-better-than-maradona-in-the-world-cup.2058999/ https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/pelé-was-more-influential-than-maradona.2082937/ https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/pele-1970-was-better-than-maradona-1990.2081354/ https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/pele-vs-maradona-vs-the-world.2000033/ Analysis including all WCs from Maradona and just 66-70 Pelé (Pelé was better 58-65): https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/messi-is-better-than-maradona-but-maybe-not-pele/ And forget your shit table, this table in only about Official Matches. For assists Wiki Spanish has 245 assists for Pelé at Santos, so 245/643 = 0.38 assists per Goal, https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelé#Clubes Btw, Cristiano had 131 assists to 450 goal at Madrid as Centro-Avante = 0.29 assists per Goal... you can use it as parameter if you don't believe in the Spanish Wikipedia anyway. Messi according whoscored 156 assists to 432 Goals = 0.36 assists per Goal Luiz Suarez according whoscored 99 assists to 219 Goals = 0,45 assists per Goal Like I said before: Bonus: Maradona without the WC86 would be very easily ranked outside of the TOP10.
Dude you sound like one of them foreigners that learn a word and can’t stop using it You learnt how to say “shit”...but do you know what it means? Spanish wiki, okay so now we are using Wikipedia as source material even though we know any Jose Hernandez can edit a wikipage and put whatever fake info he pleases Pelé is the biggest marketing creation of the World Cup(I agree) Explain how the so called biggest name of the World Cup was never voted best player of a World Cup not even once during his playing career(and he never top scored either) his legendary claim to fame is that he won 3 world cups His 3 World cups are as real as R9s 2 world cups (on paper not reality)
@Tropeiro There is no such a thing as maradona without World Cup 86. It happened,have you got a time machine in São Paulo or wherever you are If not you are just theorising and hypothesising about BS scenarios what if this/what if that=waste of time Maradona won a World Cup for his country Zico did not and couldn’t even get past a QF He could never even score in the SF of a overrated Copa America Posting pictures of maradona getting red carded proves what exactly? Maradona came 4 years later to Mexico and was carried like a king with his World Cup trophy The power of his performance transcends any Mickey Mouse performance zico had against Brazilian state league competitors And it’s not even close
There was no best player award until 1982. What kind of stupid comment is that ? Pelé was retroactively given one in 1970 and a silver ball in 1958.
Do you know what means be a shitposter, right? Dude, this thread is about scoring ability and not about your brainstorms, you are too much into off-topics and also using too much the 'singlehandedly' word in virtually all of your posts recently, even when the statement is blatantly false. Anyway, you have not countered any of my arguments as always. In your deep I know you accept Pele as GOAT, you just want to bump the thread with your usual polemic and non-sense. That is my opinion. Calma