Hello, This thread is meant to post the win/loss statistics of the legends. As guide I will use the list of PDG1978 in his thread where users voted for their legends list. Unfortunately, I will not be able to find the win-loss stats for all players or for all seasons. It has on top of that a few issues to keep in mind: Stats are affected by the alternatives and substitutes for a player. If a 'world class' playmaker gets injured and, say, Real Madrid has an 'international class' guy on the bench then the effect is dampened. Stats are affected by the amount of home or away matches missed. Misses of away games inflates the difference. In the last 10 years the top flights see the introduction of rotation policies. This means that (past-prime) key players are benched in order to preserve them for more important or tighter games. But if a team is on the losing side in a 'unimportant' match, a key-player is often still introduced during the game with the hope to change the outcome, but not always with the desired outcome. It means that this negatively affects the win/loss statistics of someone like Paul Scholes or Ryan Giggs - the same also happened with Dennis Bergkamp and even Kenny Dalglish who are in PDG1978 his top 50. Nevertheless, it is perhaps still informative and it as always depends on how the statistics are interpreted. I will use this list as guide: 1 Pele 797 2 Diego Maradona 771 3 Johan Cruyff 747 4 Franz Beckenbauer 682 5 Alfredo Di Stefano 677 6 Ferenc Puskas 635 7 Michel Platini 587 8 Garrincha 581 9 Ronaldo 504 10 Eusebio 496 11 Zico 487 12 Zinedine Zidane 468 13 George Best 467 14 Gerd Muller 419 15 Marco van Basten 382 16 Bobby Charlton 365 17 Lev Yashin 319 18 Romario 268 19 Paolo Maldini 225 20 Lothar Matthaus 203 21 Roberto Baggio 175 22 Franco Baresi 170 23 Didi 147 24= Lionel Messi 136 24= Ronaldinho 136 26 Stanley Matthews 122 27 Bobby Moore 114 28 Jose Manuel Moreno 103 29 Ruud Gullit 89 30 Giussepe Meazza 83 31= Zizinho 71 31= Michael Laudrup 71 33 Roberto Rivelino 67 34 Dino Zoff 63 35 Leonidas 55 36 Thierry Henry 46 37 Paolo Rossi 45 38 Dennis Bergkamp 43 39 George Weah 36 40 Rivaldo 32 41 Gianni Rivera 31 42 Duncan Edwards 29 43 Matthias Sindelar 28 44 Luis Figo 25 45 Kenny Dalglish 24 46= Nilton Santos 21 46= Andres Iniesta 21 46= Josef Bican 21 49= Raymond Kopa 20 49= Cristiano Ronaldo 20 49= Karl-Heinz Rummenigge 20 49= Dejan Savicevic 20
2. Diego Maradona in Europe - league games only 82/83 Barcelona 10W 6D 4L Without 7W 4D 3L 83/84 Barcelona 10W 3D 3L Without 10W 5D 3L 84/85 Napoli 10W 13D 7L 85/86 Napoli 13W 11D 5L Without 1W 86/87 Napoli 14W 12D 3L Without 1W 87/88 Napoli 18W 6D 4L Without 2L 88/89 Napoli 17W 7D 2L Without 1W 4D 3L 89/90 Napoli 17W 8D 3L Without 4W 1D 1L 90/91 Napoli 7W 4D 7L Without 4W 11D 1L 92/93 Sevilla 10W 8D 8L Without 7W 1D 4L Record With 126W 78D 46L 1.32 PPG Record Without 35W 26D 17L 1.23 PPG Excluding Sevilla season - past physical prime: Record With 116W 70D 38L 1.348 PPG Record Without 28W 25D 13L 1.227 PPG If someone knows for Argentinian league record, feel free to add.
3. Johan Cruijff in Europe - league games only 1964/1965 Ajax 4W 3D 3L Without 5W 5D 10L 1965/1966 Ajax 17W 1D 1L Without 7W 3D 1L 1966/1967 Ajax 24W 3D 3L Without 2W 1D 1L 1967/1968 Ajax 26W 4D 3L Without 1W 0D 0L 1968/1969 Ajax 22W 3D 4L Without 3W 1D 1L 1969/1970 Ajax 26W 6D 1L Without 1W 0D 0L 1970/1971 Ajax 20W 2D 3L Without 4W 3D 2L 1971/1972 Ajax 28W 3D 1L Without 2W 0D 0L 1972/1973 Ajax 22W 0D 4L Without 8W 0D 0L 1973/1974 Ajax 2W 0D 0L Without 19W 9D 4L Summary Ajax years: With: 191 win, 25 draws, 23 losses – 407/239 = 1.703 ppg (average points per game) Without: 52 win, 22 draws, 19 losses – 126/93 = 1.355 Excluding 1973/1974 season: With: 189 win, 25 draws, 23 losses – 403/237 = 1.700 ppg Without: 33 win, 13 draws, 15 losses – 79/61 = 1.295 Barcelona: 1973/1974 Barcelona 19W 5D 2L Without 2W 3D 3L 1974/1975 Barcelona 14W 6D 10L Without 1W 1D 2L 1975/1976 Barcelona 16W 4D 9L Without 2W 3D 0L 1976/1977 Barcelona 16W 8D 5L Without 2W 1D 2L 1977/1978 Barcelona 14W 5D 6L Without 2W 4D 3L Summary of all Barcelona seasons: With: 79 win, 28 draws, 32 losses – 186/139 = 1.338 ppg Without: 9 win, 12 draws, 10 losses – 30/31 = 0.967 Comeback seasons Ajax, Feyenoord: 1981/1982 Ajax 14W 1D 0L Without 12W 3D 4L 1982/1983 Ajax 15W 6D 0L Without 11W 0D 2L 1983/1984 Feyenoord 25W 7D 1L Without 0W 0D 1L With: 54W 14D 1L = 1.768 ppg Without: 23W 3D 7L = 1.484 ppg
4. Franz Beckenbauer at Bayern Munich - Bundesliga games only 1965/1966 Bayern 20W 6D 7L Without: 0W 1D 0L 1966/1967 Bayern 16W 5D 12L Without: 0W 0D 1L 1967/1968 Bayern 15W 4D 9L Without: 1W 2D 3L 1968/1969 Bayern 18W 9D 6L Without: 0W 1D 0L 1969/1970 Bayern 21W 5D 8L Without: N/A 1970/1971 Bayern 18W 10D 5L Without: 1W 0D 0L 1971/1972 Bayern 24W 7D 3L Without: N/A 1972/1973 Bayern 25W 4D 5L Without: N/A 1973/1974 Bayern 20W 9D 5L Without: N/A 1974/1975 Bayern 14W 6D 13L Without: 0W 0D 1L 1975/1976 Bayern 15W 10D 9L Without N/A 1976/1977 Bayern 14W 9D 10L Without: 0W 0D 1L With: 220W 84D 92L - 524/396 = 1.323 Without: 2W 4D 6L - 8/12 = 0.666 - means certain relegation on a seasonal 34 games basis. Note: suffers severely from low sample size - this is different with Gerd Müller. One extra win raises ratio to 0.769 (10/13), one extra loss drops it to 0.615 (8/13). Beckenbauer his Bundesliga record without Gerd Müller is 10W 7D 15L = 0.843ppg - means around (slightly below/above) the relegation zone on seasonal 34 games basis. Source: fussballdaten.de
5. Alfredo Di Stéfano at Real Madrid - league games only 1953/1954 Real Madrid 15W 6D 7L Without: 2W 0D 0L 1954/1955 Real Madrid 20W 6D 4L Without: N/A 1955/1956 Real Madrid 18W 2D 10L Without: N/A 1956/1957 Real Madrid 20W 4D 6L Without: N/A 1957/1958 Real Madrid 20W 5D 5L Without: N/A 1958/1959 Real Madrid 20W 5D 3L Without: 1W 0D 1L 1959/1960 Real Madrid 14W 4D 5L Without: 7W 0D 0L 1960/1961 Real Madrid 19W 3D 1L Without: 5W 1D 1L 1961/1962 Real Madrid 17W 4D 2L Without: 2W 1D 4L 1962/1963 Real Madrid 11W 1D 1L Without: 12W 2D 3L 1963/1964 Real Madrid 17W 2D 5L Without: 5W 0D 1L With: W:191 D:42 L:49 - 424/282 = 1.5035 Without: W:34 D:4 L:10 - 72/48 = 1.50 Source: bdfutbol, spanish league website (which has full records)
6. Ferenc Puskas at Real Madrid - league games only 1958/1959 Madrid With: 17W 4D 3L Without: 4W 1D 1L 1959/1960 Madrid With: 17W 3D 4L Without: 4W 1D 1L 1960/1961 Madrid With: 23W 3D 2L Without: 1W 1D 0L 1961/1962 Madrid With: 17W 4D 2L Without: 2W 1D 4L 1962/1963 Madrid With: 23W 3D 4L Without: N/A 1963/1964 Madrid With: 18W 2D 5L Without: 4W 0D 1L 1964/1965 Madrid With: 12W 4D 2L Without: 9W 1D 2L 1965/1966 Madrid With: 4W 2D 2L Without: 15W 3D 4L With: 131W 25D 24L - 287/180 = 1.594 Without: 39W 8D 13L - 86/60 = 1.433 Note: although I've no records for his Hungarian stint, when he was in his physical prime, one can be sure that his impact at Honved was bigger. Compare for yourself the record of Honved of incomplete seasons 1950, 1951 and 1954 - Puskas missed a large chunk of games - with the record of Honved in seasons where he played almost all games.
7. Michel Platini at St. Etienne and Juventus (1979-1987) - league games only St Etienne: 1979/1980 St Etienne 23W 5D 5L Without: 0W 3D 2L 1980/1981 St Etienne 22W 9D 4L Without: 1W 2D 0L 1981/1982 St Etienne 21W 9D 6L Without: 1W 1D 0L Record St Etienne With: 66W 23D 15L - 155/104 = 1.490 Without: 2W 6D 2L - 10/10 = 1.000 Note: suffers from low sample Juventus: 1982/1983 Juventus 15W 9D 6L Without: N/A 1983/1984 Juventus 15W 7D 4L Without: 2W 0D 0L 1984/1985 Juventus 11W 14D 5L Without: N/A 1985/1986 Juventus 18W 9D 3L Without: N/A 1986/1987 Juventus 14W 10D 5L Without: 0W 1D 0L With: 73W 49D 23L - 195/145 = 1.334 Without: 2W 1D 0L - 5/3 = 1.66 NOTE: EXTREMELY LOW SAMPLE SIZE Missed Juventus matches by Platini in the league are: 25/03/1984 - Juventus - Catania 2:0 (2 field goals Scirea!) 01/04/1984 - Juventus - Fiorentina 1:0 12/10/1986 - Fiorentina - Juventus 1:1
9. Ronaldo Luiz Nazario de Lima in Europe - league games only PSV 1994/1995 PSV 20W 6D 7L Without: 0W 1D 0L 1995/1996 PSV 8W 2D 3L Without: 16W 3D 2L With: 28W 8D 10L - 64/46 = 1.39 Without: 16W 4D 2L - 36/22 = 1.63 Barcelona 1996/1997 Barcelona 26W 4D 7L Without: 2W 2D 1L With: 1.513 ppg Without: 1.2 ppg Internazionale 1997/1998 Internazionale 20W 6D 6L Without: 1W 0D 1L 1998/1999 Internazionale 7W 4D 8L Without: 6W 3D 6L 1999/2000 Internazionale 3W 1D 3L Without: 14W 6D 7L 2000/2001 Internazionale - full season injured 14W 9D 11L 2001/2002 Internazionale 7W 1D 2L Without: 13W 8D 3L With: 37W 12D 19L - 86/68 = 1.264 Without: 34W 17D 17L - 85/68 = 1.250 Without 2000/2001 season too: 48W 26D 28L - 122/102 = 1.196 Real Madrid 2002/2003 Madrid 18W 9D 4L Without: 4W 3D 0L 2003/2004 Madrid 20W 5D 7L Without: 1W 2D 3L 2004/2005 Madrid 23W 5D 6L Without: 2W 0D 2L 2005/2006 Madrid 11W 7D 5L Without: 9W 3D 3L 2006/2007 Madrid 1W 1D 2L Without: 22W 6D 6L With: 73W 27D 24L - 173/124 = 1.395 Without: 38W 14D 14L - 90/66 = 1.363
Thanks Puck, YET another great thread and very informative (that many ignore them and pay much more attention to GOALS and ASSISTS)
This is an interesting one: 12. Zinedine Zidane at Bordeaux, Juventus and Real Madrid - league games only 1992/1993 Bordeaux 16W 11D 7L Without: 2W 1D 1L 1993/1994 Bordeaux 16W 8D 10L Without: 3W 0D 1L 1994/1995 Bordeaux 16W 9D 12L Without: 0W 0D 1L 1995/1996 Bordeaux 9W 8D 16L Without: 2W 1D 2L With: 57W 36D 45D - 150/138 = 1.087 Without: 7W 2D 5L - 16/14 = 1.143 Note: low sample 1996/1997 Juventus 13W 13D 3L Without: 4W 1D 0L 1997/1998 Juventus 20W 10D 2L Without: 1W 1D 0L 1998/1999 Juventus 10W 8D 7L Without: 5W 1D 3L 1999/2000 Juventus 20W 7D 5L Without 1W 1D 0L 2000/2001 Juventus 20W 10D 3L Without: 1W 0D 0L With: 83W 48D 20L - 214/151 = 1.417 Without: 12W 4D 3L - 28/19 = 1.473 2001/2002 Madrid 17W 7D 7L Without: 2W 2D 3L 2002/2003 Madrid 19W 10D 4L Without: 3W 2D 0L 2003/2004 Madrid 20W 5D 8L Without: 1W 2D 2L 2004/2005 Madrid 21W 3D 6L Without: 4W 2D 2L 2005/2006 Madrid 14W 10D 5L Without: 6W 0D 3L With: 91W 35D 30L - 217/156 = 1.391 Without: 16W 8D 10L - 40/34 = 1.176
13 George Best at Manchester United - league only 1963/1964 Manchester United 10W 3D 4L Without: 13W 4D 8L 1964/1965 Manchester United 25W 9D 7L Without: 1W 0D 0L 1965/1966 Manchester United 14W 11D 6L Without: 4W 4D 3L 1966/1967 Manchester United 24W 12D 6L Without: N/A 1967/1968 Manchester United 23W 8D 10L Without: 1W 0D 0L 1968/1969 Manchester United 15W 12D 14L Without: 0W 0D 1L 1969/1970 Manchester United 12W 15D 10L Without: 2W 2D 1L 1970/1971 Manchester United 15W 10D 15L Without: 1W 1D 0L 1971/1972 Manchester United 19W 9D 12L Without: 0W 1D 1L 1972/1973 Manchester United 4W 6D 9L Without: 8W 7D 8L 1973/1974 Manchester United 2W 4D 6L Without: 8W 8D 14L With: 163W 99D 99L - 425/362 = 1.174 Without: 38W 27D 36L - 103/101 = 1.019
14. Gerd Müller at Bayern Munich - league games 1965/1966 Bayern 20W 6D 7L Without: 0W 1D 0L 1966/1967 Bayern 15W 5D 12L Without: 1W 0D 1L 1967/1968 Bayern 16W 6D 12L Without: N/A 1968/1969 Bayern 18W 8D 4L Without: 0W 2D 2L 1969/1970 Bayern 20W 5D 8L Without: 1W 0D 0L 1970/1971 Bayern 18W 10D 4L Without: 1W 0D 1L 1971/1972 Bayern 24W 7D 3L Without: N/A 1972/1973 Bayern 24W 4D 5L Without: 1W 0D 0L 1973/1974 Bayern 20W 9D 5L Without: N/A 1974/1975 Bayern 14W 5D 14L Without: 0W 1D 0L 1975/1976 Bayern 11W 8D 3L Without: 4W 2D 6L 1976/1977 Bayern 12W 7D 6L Without: 2W 2D 5L 1977/1978 Bayern 11W 10D 12L Without: 0W 0D 1L 1978/1979 Bayern 9W 4D 6L Without: 7W 4D 4L With: 232W 94D 101L - 558/427 = 1.307 Without: 17W 12D 20L - 46/49 = 0.938 Excluding 1978/1979 season: With: 223W 90D 95L - 536/408 = 1.313 Without: 10W 8D 16L - 28/34 = 0.823 Gerd Müller his record without Beckenbauer is 2W 3D 6L (2 goals + 3 assists) = 0.636ppg [this excludes the 1977-1979 period when Beckenbauer did not play for Bayern Munich any more. 1977/1978: 24 goals (7 PK-goals) in 33 games; 1978/1979: 9 goals (0 PK-goals) in 19 games] There is only one Bundesliga game where both did not play, it was a round 34 match in the 1965/1966 season, Werder Bremen - Bayern Munich 1:1 (28/05/1966)
Slight error. I double checked the results list but forgot to correct the calculation. This one was wrong but now correct: With: 163W 99D 99L - 425/361 = 1.177
I made some of them before like the Puskas and Cruijff one and some of them are new. Maradona one was made and posted by another elsewhere but I checked it because it was posted, and re-posted various times on the internet, by notorious Pelé supporters. The George Best ones can be found on the official ManU stat-site called 'stretfordend.co.uk' Gerd Müller and Beckenbauer is on the kicker website or fussballdaten Puskas and Di Stefano on La Liga site etcetera
Very useful! How many of those 'without' games are due to resting the players in meaningless games or against inferior opponents? Or is the quality of games negligible in your opinion?
Thanks I just wonder ... that's all. I can add up for the National Team Win/Loss STATS (for some greats with > 70 games). Here there are conditions and contexts: 1- Winning % = Average of Win% and (Win+Tie)% Player.........W D L GP WIN% 1 Zico.............52 17 3 72 84.03% 2 Zidane........74 27 7 108 81.02% 3 Ronaldo......69 20 9 98 80.61% 4 Pele.............67 14 11 92 80.43% 5 Romario.....49 14 7 70 80.00% 6 Muller........45 9 8 62 79.84% 7 Ronaldinho 61 21 11 93 76.88% 8 Beckenbauer 69 19 15 103 76.21% 9 Cruijff.............31 9 8 48 73.96% 10 Maradona... 42 29 20 91 62.09% (note this method favors Zidane for he got many tie games) 2- WIN absolute (= win games/all games %) This straight forward method ---> Pele became on top .....................WIN ABS% 1-Pele................... 72.83% 2-Muller.............. 72.58% 3-Zico.................. 72.22% 4-Ronaldo........... 70.41% 5-Romario.......... 70.00% 6-Zidane............. 68.52% 7-Rivaldo............ 67.57% 8-Beckenbauer.. 66.99% 9-Bebeto............. 66.67% 10Ronaldinho..... 65.59% 11Cruijff.............. 64.58% 12Henry 59.35% 13Maradona....... 46.15% NOtes: Maradona was below others blamed to his NT with less talents in 80-90's
This is up for closer analysis and interpretation. In case of Cruijff, Müller, Best it is largely due to injuries (or form in case of Best). Two games that Platini missed for Juventus were also certainly caused by injuries. Not sure about the third game in 86/87 season. Zidane missed a few games for Juventus due to red cards in 1996/1997 and in 1998/1999 he suffered a heavy injury which sidelined him for a few games. That is what I certainly know. The games he missed in 2001/2002 are also related to injuries. Not a big need to rest him because he was suspended for Champions League matches up to the quarter-finals. In 2002/2003 it seems to be the same thing. In one case he was introduced as sub but could not turn it around. He did not play in the subsequent games. 2003/2004 are almost all meaningless games. Rested at the very end of the season or after/before a CL game. Also red carded and suspended for a game. 2004/2005 is a difficult one. Can't tell you with certainty. Zidane missed a big chunk of the first half of 2005/2006 season due to injuries (in one instance he was rested). I'm sure about this one. Anyhow, you can analyse it closer for all players. I did look however for instances where an disproportionate amount of the missed games are away games because that will distort the record severely.
15. Marco van Basten at Ajax and Milan 1981/1982 Ajax 1W 0D 0L Without: 25W 4D 4L 1982/1983 Ajax 15W 3D 2L Without: 11W 3D 0L 1983/1984 Ajax 16W 6D 4L Without: 6W 1D 1L 1984/1985 Ajax 23W 6D 4L Without: 1W 0D 0L 1985/1986 Ajax 21W 1D 4L Without: 4W 1D 3L 1986/1987 Ajax 21W 2D 4L Without: 4W 1D 2L With: 97W 18D 20L - 212/135 = 1.57 Without: 51W 10D 10L - 112/71 = 1.57 Excluding 1981/1982 season: With: 96W 18D 20L - 210/134 = 1.567 Without: 26W 6D 6L - 58/38 = 1.526 Excluding 1981-1983 period (excluding 'bench player era') With: 81W 15D 18L - 180/114 = 1.578 Without: 15W 3D 6L - 33/24 = 1.375 1987/1988 Milan 6W 4D 1L Without: 11W 7D 1L 1988/1989 Milan 15W 14D 4L Without: 1W 0D 0L 1989/1990 Milan 18W 3D 6L Without: 4W 2D 2L 1990/1991 Milan 16W 9D 6L Without: 2W 1D 0L 1991/1992 Milan 21W 10D 0L Without: 1W 2D 0L 1992/1993 Milan 10W 5D 0L Without: 8W 9D 2L With: 86W 45D 17L - 217/148 = 1.466 Without: 27W 21D 5L - 75/53 = 1.415 In 89/90 was 1W without him a meaningless rnd34 game. 87/88 and 89/90 sidelined with injuries. 90/91 was poor form, in 91/92 rested in two games, in 92/93 ended his career - one time subbed out and one time subbed in at end of 92/93 season
1987/1988 Milan 6W 4D 1L Without: 11W 7D 1L - 7 times subbed in, 2 times subbed out 1988/1989 Milan 15W 14D 4L Without: 1W 0D 0L - 0 times subbed in, 4 times subbed out 1989/1990 Milan 18W 3D 6L Without: 4W 2D 2L - 0 times subbed in, 1 time subbed out 1990/1991 Milan 16W 9D 6L Without: 2W 1D 0L - 0 times subbed in, 3 times subbed out 1991/1992 Milan 21W 10D 0L Without: 1W 2D 0L - 0 times subbed in, 6 times subbed out 1992/1993 Milan 10W 5D 0L Without: 8W 9D 2L - 1 time subbed in, 1 time subbed out
If one excludes the last Madrid season where he was a fringe player (06/07) you get this: With: 72W 26D 22L - 170/120 = 1.416 Without: 16W 8D 8L - 40/32 = 1.25 If one excludes Van Basten his low input 1987/1988 season you get: 1988/1989 Milan 15W 14D 4L Without: 1W 0D 0L 1989/1990 Milan 18W 3D 6L Without: 4W 2D 2L 1990/1991 Milan 16W 9D 6L Without: 2W 1D 0L 1991/1992 Milan 21W 10D 0L Without: 1W 2D 0L 1992/1993 Milan 10W 5D 0L Without: 8W 9D 2L With: 80W 41D 16L - 201/137 = 1.467 Without: 16W 14D 4L - 46/34 = 1.352
Similarly, one can exclude the debut season of players. Such as in the case of Van Basten or George Best: 1963/1964 Manchester United 10W 3D 4L Without: 13W 4D 8L 1964/1965 Manchester United 25W 9D 7L Without: 1W 0D 0L 1965/1966 Manchester United 14W 11D 6L Without: 4W 4D 3L 1966/1967 Manchester United 24W 12D 6L Without: N/A 1967/1968 Manchester United 23W 8D 10L Without: 1W 0D 0L 1968/1969 Manchester United 15W 12D 14L Without: 0W 0D 1L 1969/1970 Manchester United 12W 15D 10L Without: 2W 2D 1L 1970/1971 Manchester United 15W 10D 15L Without: 1W 1D 0L 1971/1972 Manchester United 19W 9D 12L Without: 0W 1D 1L 1972/1973 Manchester United 4W 6D 9L Without: 8W 7D 8L 1973/1974 Manchester United 2W 4D 6L Without: 8W 8D 14L With: 153W 96D 95L - 402/344= 1.168 Without: 25W 23D 28L - 73/76 = 0.96 Which improves his impact. Or Cruijff at Ajax 1964/1965 Ajax 4W 3D 3L Without 5W 5D 10L 1965/1966 Ajax 17W 1D 1L Without 7W 3D 1L 1966/1967 Ajax 24W 3D 3L Without 2W 1D 1L 1967/1968 Ajax 26W 4D 3L Without 1W 0D 0L 1968/1969 Ajax 22W 3D 4L Without 3W 1D 1L 1969/1970 Ajax 26W 6D 1L Without 1W 0D 0L 1970/1971 Ajax 20W 2D 3L Without 4W 3D 2L 1971/1972 Ajax 28W 3D 1L Without 2W 0D 0L 1972/1973 Ajax 22W 0D 4L Without 8W 0D 0L 1973/1974 Ajax 2W 0D 0L Without 19W 9D 4L Summary Ajax years: With: 187 win, 22 draws, 20 losses – 396/229 = 1.729 Without: 47 win, 17 draws, 9 losses – 111/73 = 1.520 Which decreases the gap. But things like this are subject to interpretation. A 'negative' season in 1972/1973 where Ajax at the peak of their fame won 8 games without him, but the other side of the story is that he struggled with an ankle injury in that season and was also rested a few times in games where it was an option. In any event, I'll post the season-by-season win-draw-loss record. How it should be interpreted is another story.
16 Bobby Charlton for Manchester United - league appearances only 1956/1957 Manchester United 8W 2D 4L Without: 20W 6D 2L 1957/1958 Manchester United 6W 6D 9L Without: 10W 5D 6L 1958/1959 Manchester United 22W 6D 10L Without: 2W 1D 1L 1959/1960 Manchester United 16W 7D 14L Without: 3W 0D 2L 1960/1961 Manchester United 15W 9D 15L Without: 3W 0D 0L 1961/1962 Manchester United 14W 9D 14L Without: 1W 0D 4L 1962/1963 Manchester United 9W 8D 11L Without: 3W 2D 9L 1963/1964 Manchester United 22W 7D 11L Without: 1W 0D 1L 1964/1965 Manchester United 25W 9D 7L Without: 1W 0D 0L 1965/1966 Manchester United 15W 15D 8L Without: 0W 3D 1L 1966/1967 Manchester United 24W 12D 6L Without: N/A 1967/1968 Manchester United 23W 8D 10L Without: 1W 0D 0L 1968/1969 Manchester United 9W 9D 14L Without: 6W 3D 1L 1969/1970 Manchester United 14W 16D 10L Without: 0W 1D 1L 1970/1971 Manchester United 16W 11D 15L Without: N/A 1971/1972 Manchester United 18W 9D 13L Without: 1W 1D 0L 1972/1973 Manchester United 11W 10D 15L Without: 1W 3D 2L With: 267W 153D 186L - 687/606 = 1.133 Without: 53W 25D 30L - 131/108 = 1.212
The above record seems odd but take for example this season: 1968/1969 Manchester United 9W 9D 14L Without: 6W 3D 1L In all 6 games that United won without Charlton scored George Best at least a goal and 8 goals in total - he scored a 'brace' in two matches. In all three draws did Best not score (two scoreless draws and a 1:1 against Stoke City). Best did not score too in the 3:2 loss against Chelsea in which Charlton did not play too. So you can imagine that if George Best had his day, he saved Manchester United from a loss of points.