Zimbabwe

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Roel, Jun 5, 2006.

  1. Roel

    Roel Member

    Jan 15, 2000
    Santa Cruz mountains
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    It seems that Mugabe's troops, acting under his orders, are comfiscating farmlands managed by blacks, plowing under their current crops and planting maize in order to fill the government's grain silos.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20060605/wl_csm/ozimfarm

    The economy is a complete mess in Zimbabwe. This policy is only going to promote misery and starvation.
     
  2. Revolt

    Revolt Member+

    Jun 16, 1999
    Davis, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Damn. Inflation is running 1,000 percent there.
     
  3. TheSlipperyOne

    TheSlipperyOne Member+

    Feb 29, 2000
    Denver
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    And 80% unemployment.
     
  4. el_urchinio

    el_urchinio Member

    Jun 6, 2002
    But anything is better than white rule, right?
     
  5. ::::::

    :::::: Guest

    Goddamn Bush.
     
  6. ratdog

    ratdog Member+

    Mar 22, 2004
    In the doghouse
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's all Clinton's fault.
     
  7. Scarecrow

    Scarecrow Red Card

    Feb 13, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This makes me ask, are there any success stories in Africa? What will it take to get the countries there on some sort of civilized track?
     
  8. DoyleG

    DoyleG Member+

    CanPL
    Canada
    Jan 11, 2002
    YEG-->YYJ-->YWG-->YYB
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Zimbabwe's life expectancy is at 37 years.
     
  9. Samarkand

    Samarkand Member+

    May 28, 2001
    Is there any reason not to think Mugabe is a blight on the face of humanity?
     
  10. PsychedelicCeltic

    PsychedelicCeltic New Member

    Dec 10, 2003
    San Francisco/London
    Zimbabwe was, until about five years ago.

    The country below it is doing fairly well for itself, considering it's still an emerging democracy.
     
  11. Yankee_Blue

    Yankee_Blue New Member

    Aug 28, 2001
    New Orleans area
    Well. Umm. No.
     
  12. eric_appleby

    eric_appleby Member+

    Jun 11, 1999
    Down East
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm currently reading Paul Theroux's Dark Star Safari.
    It's truly depressing reading. He was a teacher in Uganda and Malawi in the 60s. Things are much worse than 40 years ago.
     
  13. Matt Clark

    Matt Clark Member

    Dec 19, 1999
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    What happens to the place in 2043? (*Rimshot*)

    Off the top of my head? Botswana. Tunisia.

    Ultimately, it depends on your yardsticks and context. Is a "success" judged relative to western standards, or African ones? If the latter, what's the measure of success? Literacy? Self-sufficiency? AIDS rates? Or perhaps even cute little nice-to-haves like representative government and merely low-key corruption?

    Colonial rule.

    No, I'm serious.
     
  14. DoyleG

    DoyleG Member+

    CanPL
    Canada
    Jan 11, 2002
    YEG-->YYJ-->YWG-->YYB
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Especially Uganda before Amin took over.
     
  15. prk166

    prk166 BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 8, 2000
    Med City
    Botswana is one. I think Mali is another although it may strickly be in terms of a country adopting democracy peacefully.

    No way. Colonial rule has been a big part of the problem. The same with the cold war. Instead of supporting countries trying to be democratic, like Mali, we keep pouring tens of millions into places like Uganda where Musevini [sic] finally had a quasi-democratic election after seizing power in the mid-80s. And the colonies split up the "countries" in ways that cause many of them to naturlaly have "internal" conflicts. I don't see how the US or Britain or France is going to help the problem because for the last 100 - 200 years they have been major contributors the problem. I don't want to take blame away from people like Mobutu. But let's face it, Mobutu's reign wouldn't have been 1/2 as long as it was if the French weren't bailing his ass out with paratroopers or the IMF doing nothing about the money being funneled off by Mobutu and his psychophants from copper, diamonds, etc. I don't think they have any desire to sort out the problems, just get what they want. With Angola, they aren't going to raise a stink of alleged govt (MPLA) attrocities cuz the US and others just want the oil. Or with Eritrea and Ethiopia, I'm not sure there is much interest in anything. So they're not willing to enforce the rulings that Ethiopia said they'd stick too. I don't want to say these problems "are all white imperial crackas" fault. But they have had their fingers in the cookie jar and I fail to see how they're going to make anything better given how much they've done that's opposite.
     
  16. Matt Clark

    Matt Clark Member

    Dec 19, 1999
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    I didn't suggest colonial rule is the most practicable solution. Just the best.
     
  17. PsychedelicCeltic

    PsychedelicCeltic New Member

    Dec 10, 2003
    San Francisco/London
    OTOH, 45 years of apartheid seems to give most people in South Africa respect for the rule of law and democracy, since white South Africans had it and everybody else didn't, rather than the usual fiefdoms colonies were. Plus some wise leaders (Mandela was a communist, but realised that ship had sailed and set South Africa on a liberal course).

    Ethnic tensions also aren't as bad as they should be, although Zulus and Xhosas get into spats now and then.
     
  18. Anthony

    Anthony Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 20, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  19. CrewDust

    CrewDust Member

    May 6, 1999
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Blaming Whitey for Africa's problems is like blaming Israel for the problems of Middle East countries. It's just easier than facing the real problems.
     
  20. Anthony

    Anthony Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 20, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I blame Israel for Africa's problems.
     
  21. NoodlesMacintosh

    NoodlesMacintosh New Member

    Aug 24, 2004
    Salt Lake City
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's funny; so does the Middle East.
     
  22. Colm

    Colm Member

    Aug 17, 2004
    UK
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Until Mugabe is gone, Zimbabwe is going to continue to go down the drain. :(
     
  23. Colm

    Colm Member

    Aug 17, 2004
    UK
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    One big problem with Africa is that alot of the governments (not all) but a lot have corrupt dictatorships in charge.
     
  24. jott

    jott Member

    Aug 13, 2005
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly. The problem is that (especially in Zim's case) the governing parties (ZANU, ANC, SWAPO, et al) are liberation groups and aren't truly parties of democracy. In practically all cases in Africa, it's just been one dictatorship replacing another, so I'm not very optimistic anout Zim's prospects even when Comrade Bob kicks it.
     
  25. Matt Clark

    Matt Clark Member

    Dec 19, 1999
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Problems is, Zimbabwe's now so messed up that "what happens next?" is almost an irrelevant debate. No matter how bad the next guy, he's not going to be as bad as Mugabe. In time, Mugabe's story will be written up by history in the same tone as the stories of some of the worst despots in modern times.

    Beyond the monstrous, callous kleptocratic nature of the regime and the woeful impact it has had on ordinary Zimbabweans, the biggest story in this whole issue is the way in which Africa has failed - abjectly failed, mind - to handle its own issues. South Africa's appeasement of Mugabe, in apparent service of some high-minded and utterly foolish belief in "African solutions for African problems", is a particularly nasty stain on that country's - and the wider continent's - post-colonial history.
     

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