The Mexican league has just started a new season, so I took a peek at the top division league rosters. http://www.femexfut.org.mx/REG_JUG_PP.pdf There are 20 teams in the league, and most of them provide rosters of 20-25 players, so you might expect to find quite a few teenagers listed. Instead, there are only four. Fernando Lopez (Irapuato) -- 19 years old; starting defender. Ignacio Torres (America) -- 19-year-old forward who turns 20 in September; two career appearances; never scored or played a full 90. Santiago Fernandez (America) -- 18-year-old forward; played 311 minutes in his career with 1 goal; no appearances so far this season. Hector Arredondo (Atlante) -- 18-year-goalkeeper; never played. In MLS, you have Eddie Gaven (who's still 16!), Memo Gonzalez, Arturo Alvarez, Craig Capano, Mike Magee, Justin Mapp, Santino Quaranta, Eddie Johnson, and Jordan Stone. That's ten guys, all of whom have played this season and six of whom have scored. Now, Mexico isn't a perfect model for development, but it's a solid league whose teams are among the best in the hemisphere. It also has reserve teams where ordinary young players can follow an ordinary path of development. By contrast, the MLS relies on college soccer for most of its players. As a result, it is hamstrung by the fact that most major colleges don't have teams. But when it comes to top prospects, the pendulum clearly swings in favor of MLS. There is simply much more opportunity here. Why does this happen? It's because MLS has tight limits on squad size and salaries. As a result, teams are forced to give roster-protected players a chance ... for purposes of elite player development, this works great.
Is it true that most major colleges don't have teams? I've always thought that the problem is that colleges put too many restrictions on the number of games, limits on when teams can practice, and limits on when coaches can even interact with players. I know when I played for my college, our coach could not even talk to us about practicing outside of the season. Either we did it on our own, or it didn't happen. He couldn't even give us a plan to go by. So in other countries, players are being trained year-round, while we could only train for 4 months. Bad timing if you're 18-21 years old.
Your points are definitely valid ... there are a whole litany of problems with college development. Still, just having a team is the biggest thing ... some very humble programs have produced high-quality players. Big-five conferences and teams... ACC 7 out of 9 schools have soccer teams Big Ten 7/11 Pac-10 5/10 SEC 3/12 Big Twelve 0/12 TOTAL 21/54 40.7% There's room for quibbling over the definition of a "major" -- certainly, the bigger Big East schools belong, as do BYU, Utah, and Louisville. But this is a reasonable ballpark estimate.
You don't see the difference between playing in a reserve team and playing in a first team? Ask Landon Donovan.
I think he means that you dont see that many teenagers on the first team because there are reserves to provide them with development. If they are good enough they will no doubt be brought up. IN MLS there are no reserves so teams must take these promising kids and put them on their first team roster in order to be able to develop them and also not lose them to other teams.
Remember, we're talking about a 20-team league where only one youngster sees the field on a regular basis, and only two others are even close.
MFL Clubs register young players with their affiliate 2nd and 3rd Div teams. The players that are really good can then get called up to the first team. The Majority of MFL clubs dont really work on their youth squads since they can very easily go whole sale shopping to South America..
Dude...try not being a smartass all the time. Landon was 17. In Germany. On one of the strongest teams in the world. Exactly what I meant.
There may be more "opportunity" here because there's less competition. The Mexicans don't have to rush their kids up into the big league as rapidly as MLS does. They can develop on the lower level squads the same way minor league baseball players develop. Everybody knows it's not good to rush most kids. Did you watch any of the Mexican games in the Sub-17 FIFA World Championships? Players like Julio Ceja (Cruz Azul), Gerardo Flores (Atlas) and Jose Alamo (Necaxa), to name just three, look like their going to be just fine. Having a bunch of youngsters in the top league shouldn't be interpreted as a sign of strength. It can just as easily be argued that it indicates weakness in the talent pool and depth chart of a league.
Yes, but even the really good ones don't get a chance until they are considerably older than the kids in MLS. Here, top prospects see the field regularly at age 18 (e.g. Mapp and Magee broke through this year, joining fellow 18-year-old Quaranta, who broke in at 16). With twice as many teams, it's a bit surprising that Mexico doesn't have a single 18-year-old at a similar level of advancement. If this is their attitude, it doesn't seem very wise. The foreigner limit is five per team, and naturalized players are still a rarity. Where is the rest of their team going to come from?
This strikes me as way too defensive. Where did I say it was a sign of strength? I said it was a result of having tight roster and salary caps.
No, he wasn't. He was playing and training on a reserve team, and had zero contact with the real Bayer Leverkusen. As a result, he didn't improve at all. It wasn't until he started getting first team action that his play really took off. Hence, he's a perfect illustration of why it's valuable to bring top young players along quickly.
I believe your use of the word "advancement" in this sentence indicates you feel the young Americans in MLS are there as a result of the strength of our up-and-coming players, and that Mexicans kids may not be as good, considering they have more clubs and larger rosters and, presumably, an easier chance to get a crack at the top in Mexico. I think the American kids have advanced to MLS due to the weakness of the league. Especially considering how there are fewer teams and less roster spots in MLS. Our clubs need to rush the kids in because there aren't enough quality players as it is.
I feel it is a combination of the MLS cap and roster protection afforded by P40. There are plenty of players that would be ahead of some of the young players on MLS rosters in the A-Leaugue. They are not world beaters but good solid players. They would expect to get more than a MLS rookie and they count fully against the roster. In Mexico they have a lot more money to fill out their squads and no roster incentive to add a very young player. It would be hard to say who has better young prospects unless the rules were more the same. It does seem a bit odd after all that that there aren't a few real impact teenagers in Mexico like there are in Argentina, Brazil and even England. Those are the countries that are more comparable to the MFL setup.
The phrase was "level of advancement," and all that it means is that first-team playing time is a higher level than reserve-team playing time or first-team bench time. It implies nothing about the relative quality of US and Mexican players ... When Convey was an entrenched starter at age 17, I think this was true. Today, however, there are an awful lot of decent pros in the A-League. MLS wouldn't break the bank by signing a few of them, but instead, it has designed a system that gives young players a chance. EDITED to note that Pegasus appears to have said essentially the same thing already.
Is this him? http://www.mediotiempo.com/jugadores/jugador.php?id_jugador=1468 From the picture, he looks about 14, but he's 20 years old.
Re: Re: Young pros in MLS vs. Mexico Originally posted by beineke Yes, but even the really good ones don't get a chance until they are considerably older than the kids in MLS. The good youth players that make the first team and get considerable playing time are usually 17 but you wont find too many. Rafael Marquez has got to be one of them, and we also have Alberto Medina (19) who debuted with Chivas first team at the age of 17 and even scored the winning goal against Club America in his first Super Classico. Right now however i dont know of any current prospect. Here, top prospects see the field regularly at age 18 (e.g. Mapp and Magee broke through this year, joining fellow 18-year-old Quaranta, who broke in at 16). It is more difficult to get a starting spot in the MFL because of the number of South American Internationals that play in the league. The only country in CONMEBOL WCQ not to have a Nat team player in the MFL will be Brazil.. With twice as many teams, it's a bit surprising that Mexico doesn't have a single 18-year-old at a similar level of advancement. You must take into consideration that the MFL has Relegation and its is more difficult to reach the Play offs than in the MLS. Therefore Clubs are hesitant on trying out young players that have much to learn. I have noticed in the Argentine league that when a Club is safe from relegation and out of the title race they will give more pt to their young prospects. I belive Ruggeri debuted a 15 yr old player last season at Independiente. If this is their attitude, it doesn't seem very wise.The foreigner limit is five per team, and naturalized players are still a rarity. Where is the rest of their team going to come from? Because of the short seasons (Apertura/Clausura) in the MFL the clubs have placed more importance in gettinmg quick results. Therfore they will bring in a proven player from a South American league than to try and polish a young player.
Re: Re: Re: Young pros in MLS vs. Mexico Just to be accurate, Medina is now 20, and after making one substitute appearance at age 17, he didn't play again for over a year. That said, he looks like he could be a genuine star. And your other points make a lot of sense. The Mexican playoff race is brutal, so there isn't much room for unproven players.
Mario Ortiz Mario Ortiz (Forward, Cruz Azul) debuted last season at the age of 18, hes now 19. But i dont see much playing time for him this season after Juan Carlos Cacho(Forward, just turned 20) got back from the panamerican games.
More... Theres also Tomas Banda(19, Midfielder, Monterrey) who debuted last season. He is being used off the bench regularly. Others worth mentioning: Joel Huiqui, 20 Pachuca Ivan Huitron, 20, Monterrey Ismael de Jesús Rodríguez 22, Monterrey(debuted in 01') Theres also Luis Perez, he's 22 now (Midfielder, Monterrey, ex-Necaxa) who debuted in 1999, u make the math. Luis Gonzales(23, Pumas) who debuted in 99' at 19yo. Aldo De Nigris(Tigres) who debuted in 02' at 18yo Cesareo Victorino(Cruz Azul) who debuted in 97' at 18yo. In other words, players normally debut at the age of 20+ in the MFL due to reasons already said by others on this thread.
Well, I just couldn't believe this, so I checked out the Big 12, and sure enough, they have 11 soccer teams (out of 12.) So I thought, huh, why would Beineke say 0/12? Then I realized that these are Women's teams. They have Women's soccer, but not Men's soccer. How strange is that?