Yanks Abroad poster decorum.

Well said.

I can't speak for DK, but I'm going to start getting tougher on flaming and personal attacks around here.

This is where I started on BS, and I'm not going to let it degrade into what other forums have become.

 

I generally agree,with the exception that players' performances merit fair comment.

Another factor in this-we now have a generation of players who have professional experience PRIOR to going to Europe.Fans have already begun to form judgements on them and may have developed animosities due to team rivalries.One example - as someone who saw some horror challenges from Boca with Chicago,I was not surprised to read about and later see his horror tackle on Mark Delaney shortly after his arrival in England.

What I don't like is the throwing around of neg rep and/or direct attacks on people for their honest assessment of player's performances,positive or negative. I applaud any and all efforts you may make Buff in putting a stop to those things.

 

Well said. I tried starting a thread to compare MLS v European leagues, was hoping we could get it stickied because there is some good stuff in there. Maybe we could do an FAQ for the YA as well.

I get frustrated looking for news and finding the same old arguments over and over and over again. I know I've guilty of it as well, but I'm trying to take a new leaf.

I love the comedy in the threads, so let's not go overboard and ban that.

 

Total and utter.............SENSE!

 

It's sad we need a thread like this at all.

As far as I'm concerned any comment is fair game so long as you stick to soccer. If you think player X is good, go ahead and say it. If you think he's bad, go ahead and say that too. I do wonder about a poster who doesn't like *any* of the players discussed here, but as long as you keep the conversation civil, ok. It's nice if you have some evidence to back it up

Certainly you're going to encounter a great many unjustified opinions. Professional talent evaluators don't agree on how good players are; why should we? Of course you're going to run into biases (both ways) because people know a player personally, dislike his team, or whatever. Filter the information yourself.

But flaming or negative repping a poster just because they disagree with your evaluation of a player - I don't want you around. Flaming a player should be out too, but I haven't seen much of that.

 

Exactly. The guys who wrote after U20 Worlds that Bobby Convey would be the U.S. #10 in Germany '06 don't look too smart now, and to be honest I didn't think their argument looked so great then, either. But flame them? Nah.

Besides, Bobby has 18 months at Reading to get it going and prove them wrong.

 

I'm going to play devils advocate here for a moment. From where I sit, it seems that many (not all) of the worst arguments on yanks abroad and elsewhere in the US boards have come under this scenario: Poster A comments that this Player X is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Poster B says that Player X is ok, but is being overrated for the mere fact that he is the next big thing and that instead the lesser known and often younger Player Z is the one we need to be watching for. Poster A then goes into a tirade about how Poster B is a hata, is trolling, secretly despises US Soccer, is irrational, etc., and then negative rep points are flying back and forth. I've seen it happen often, and have been victim to it.

I remember getting into it about Convey, when I said several months back that I would take Gaven and EJ over Convey as players despite the fact that Convey had been playing every US game at the time and EJ had no caps and Gaven was only on the verge of getting his first. Rather than simply respectfully disagree with explanations, it was "flame on". It just seems to me that most of the more bitter arguments are started by people who don't appreciate others entering a feel good thread, and offering an honest opinion.

 

Ok, I just had to ditch the entire Cooper thread because of the total idiocy and third-grade behavior.

Starting now, any personal attacks or anything myself or DK consider to be the aforementioned behavior, you're gone from the YA forum. Even if you're the conduit for a website or a player.

Zero tolerance policy time, boys and girls.

 

I didn't think it was all that bad, but anyway...


Serious question:

I called a post in that thread stupid (was actaually from a different thread). From what I understood, it was always "attack the post, not the poster."

Is that considered a personal attack?

 

My most fun and bitter responses and comments have come because -

1. I told people that MLS shouldn't accept the first or second DMB bid
2. After the first couple of league matches this year I said TH is headed to the bench
3. Cletus was done with Hannover and probably Germany for his stupidity
4. Convey isn't in the same league as DMB or LD (my favourite-some posters are freaking hilarious when it comes to him...just plain nuts)

...and the most important one "I dare criticize Il Bruce" when he makes simple mistakes.


Of course I was branded as hating this player or that, and wanting to see him fail. Arrogant responses with little fact, or unemotional clear thinking to back them up, were responded to in my most child like, have fun, irritate manner.

Best part is I seem to be doing OK in my analysis. It's not an "I told you so" ego thing. It's the fact that some people don't even want to hear it when it comes to some of our guys, their play, or actions. Then again, isn't that what this gov't has turned the US into.

If you criticze us you are against us and must be humiliated, attacked or destroyed. Sign of the times I guess.


As for negative rep. It only matters if you care. Why care? It means so little people. It's an Internet Board for crying out loud. Fun, but absolutely meaningless when push comes to shove.

Neg rep away! You know who you are!

 

Hate the post ... love the poster.

 

I, for one, disagree. I like that threads are allowed to "breath" a little. It's easy to click past, ignore etc.

One of the many reasons that things have gotten "hotter" here lately is that more people are posting who have actual connections - and therefore greater allegiance - to a certain player or website. From Donovan9 to England to Luvli to flan, tree, omni, wolverine, even buf and others guys writing for various sites, there are a lot more posters with vested interests posting here, defending their players/sites/writers - attacking other players/sites/writers - with more on the line than your average foaming at the mouth freakazoid rabid fan like me. But within all the noise there is much more valuable and varied insight and information here now than there was "back in the day."

And the general poster is better armed to do his own editing.

And for those guys longing for the old days, I'll see if I can bring supergambi out of retirement...

Oh well. Buff and DK are pretty sensible. I think things run here just fine and will continue about the same.

Thanks for listening.

 

Maybe there should be a Yanks Abroad Rivalries kind of thing? Not so much where people can flame at each other and do other idiotic stuff but seperate News/PbP/Analysis from Commentary and Other Issues like comparing development systems etc etc. I know the DC board is ruled with an iron fist and tends to seperate things like this to seemingly a pretty effective degree. Maybe with the number of YA and the increased activity on this board because of that it might be a reasonable change.

 

Thanks for voicing your concerns sensibly.

But please don't lump me in with attacking any player or other website. I think YA.com is a valuable resource, and no matter what others (not myself) think of Tree, he and his crew have worked their behinds off for little return. Gotta salute that, since I'm pretty much in the same boat.

And I don't attack any players. Show me where I have--I really don't remember the last time I went off on a player for a poor performance or whatever. I go out of my way to avoid going off on players, mostly due to the fact I mod here and that I do write for a (not-really) living. In fact, time for me to get back to working for the firm...

 

Personally, I think you're on very dangerous ground calling a post "stupid." All kinds of "stupid" ideas (Chris Albright at right back, 19 year old DaMarcus Beasley starting the World Cup without playing in the Hex, Korea advancing to the World Cup semis) have turned out to be true. Some humility might be in order.

I also don't think it makes for a very pleasant atmosphere when ridicule is a commonplace emotion.

But it's better than ripping the poster, yes, and you did not do that.

 

Uh Buff - I don't really want to go down this road, but looking at my post and then coming back at me with "show me where I attack players" or whatever is a response to something I think it's pretty clear I didn't accuse you of.

I really don't get it.

I stand by what I said, which is that as we have gotten more posters with greater "vested interest" - interest outside of just being a lunatic fan - the tenor has "hotted up" a little. I don't think it's a big deal. I never suggested and don't think you are responsible for attacking players. But the issue of your reporting, for instance, has been brought up in threads - and that takes the discussion from "hobby" to "professional." I think, as I wrote very explicitly in my post - that you deal with such thing sensibly (except in your response to my post, of course - insert funny face thing of your choice here) and, as I wrote, I don't have a problem with the tenor of the threads here. We're all big folks.

But I was posting in response to some thoughts about why this board has gotten to a place that is perceived by some as more contentious and I think your response to my post is exactly what I'm talking about - there is a tendency to react more strongly when something someone has a vested interest in - even beyond the mother-club - is questioned - be it your own son the player, a buddies son the player, etc. etc.

Again. I don't think it's a big deal and I never accussed anyone I mentioned in that post of attacking players. I was just trying to provide one of the reasons the tenor around here might be worse.

That, and overpermissive parenting, hormones in milk, mercury in flu shots and global warming.

And frankly, I work my butt off as well, just for the hell of it, trying to contact family in volendam and see if anyone went to the Ajax2 match, or getting my father-in-law to translate Breda matchreports for you or taking an afternoon out of my day to drop by USMNT in Carson or whatever. Anyone who's been around here for more than a day and has dropped a bit of information that was not reported on the wires is adding value, in my humble opinion.

Yikes. Now I sound like my gandpa - and he's dead.

 

If I misread what you meant, I apologize. Mea culpa.

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good point.

Kinda slow here today anyways. Everyone in the place is like they're on tryptofan at Thanksgiving because of the weather.

 

i agree

 

I was actually just wondering where the Cooper thread went. Unless I'm missing it, I don't see it anywhere -- did you delete it, or just close it?