Yanks Abroad Flavors of the Week: 2020/2021

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by OWN(yewu)ED, Feb 15, 2021.

  1. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Yup. Its a good "getting your foot in the door" move.
    Would we have preferred Belgium or a better league? Sure, but that can't happen for everybody.
    Mueller isn't a 19 year old prospect. He's soon-to-be-25. He's the same age as Rubio Rubin, and it seems like Rubin has been around forever.

    We've talked about this quite a bit. Its not the mid-career MLS players that are necessarily wanted by the "bigger" European leagues. Particularly those without Euro passports for whom fewer doors are open. Its the young, raw materials that they really covet.

    I would love to live in Edinburgh. So there's that.
     
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  2. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    As I think I said somewhere else, he's 25 ... I hope he's getting paid. Mueller's making less than $140k this year in guaranteed comp.

    I don't know what he's making at Hibernian, and I don't know what Orlando offered, but I hope he took the higher cash and higher guarantee. Even a successful run at age 26 in Scotland isn't likely to get him a next big payday, so I hope he didn't walk from something he could put away for life.

    But hey, that's his call.
     
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  3. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Belgium 1st Div is 9th on the UEFA coefficient and is projected to slide to 12th in '22. SPL is projected to move to 9th. Aaron Long had EPL interest.

    Lack of interest in mid-career players is due to most of the talented players having already left at younger ages. Back when more players went to college, mid-career moves to the Top-5 were more common.

    Also, Orlando is a bit of a backwater MLS team. And had Mueller been on the GC team, he would've had more exposure.
     
  4. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    He can always come back to MLS. Perry Kitchen did and got paid.
     
  5. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I suppose, though I think that the Perry Kitchens aren't going to get paid as much any more. Mueller could conceivably come back younger and better, though. Kitchen, I think made about $500k for a few years.

    I'd really be curious to understand what Orlando was putting out there. Was it Jordan Morris / Darlington Nagbe money? Or was it substantially lower?
     
  6. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    The money was probably better in Scotland. But I would not discount the importance of other considerations. Living and playing in another culture, a soccer mad culture, is a life-changing experience. Every American player who has that opportunity is missing out on something big if they turn it down.
     
  7. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i think theres also a strong getting out of mls aspect to this. as noted hes not eligible for free agency, so oc doesnt have any incentive to pay him.

    so even if the money is similar i could certainly understand wanting some agency over your own career. i still dont see this is a good move competitively, but personally it obviously was for him.

    and just a side note, but add whatever system says scotland is the 9th ranked league in the world to things i care about as much as that fastest player of the match award.
     
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  8. iad_22201

    iad_22201 Member+

    Jan 2, 2009
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The average salary at Hibs is probably roughly $175,000 at the current exchange rate.
     
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  9. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    UEFA coefficients are pretty relevant whatever one cares about them.
     
  10. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Yes and no. Its the best we can do.

    Its kind of in tiers.

    The gap in points between nations like Scotland, Belgium, Austria, Ukraine, is actually pretty small.
    So year to year there's fluctuations. I tend to think of it as a band of leagues at about similar quality.

    I mean, the UEFA coefficients tell me that the Swiss League is worse than the Cypriot League.
    Do I believe that? No. I think Pefok is in the better league. But the Swiss haven't done well in the Champions League recently, so there ya go. The data doesn't lie.

    I personally prefer the leagues in Belgium and Austria to Scotland for our USMNTers. Personal preference.
     
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  11. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    9th in Europe, based on UCL and UEL performances.

    How is Orlando a backwater? They have Nani and Mickey Mouse.
     
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  12. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
  13. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Sure! That's cool, too. I wouldn't mind some time in Scotland, heard Edinburgh is cool. Would probably get really mad at the weather as well.

    I think Mueller is exactly the type of guy who will be pretty darn good in MLS for about 5-6 years, might do well in an SPL kind of league but I think he has zero shot at a top league.

    So I'm just hoping he didn't take a flyer for low money when, as a professional athlete, he needs to BANK his cash over the next five years. Because after that, he'll need to find a new career real soon.
     
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  14. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mmp. I don't rate the Scottish Premiership at all, but that's just my opinion and not one that comes from following the league closely per se so take it for what you will. As for the "experience of playing in a soccer mad nation" -- sure, but the whole SPL is smaller than the MLS eastern conference and yet half of the clubs in the league right now wouldn't meet the requirements to expand into MLS. Mueller will actually be playing in a smaller home stadium than he currently does. That's only one measure of fan culture, engagement etc of course, obviously.

    UEFA country rankings are based on clubs in Europe; for a better measure of the league, just check UEFA's club coefficients to see Hibernian are ranked below squads in Ireland, Switzerland, and Luxembourg. Or check 538 rankings which puts them below most MLS, Championship, 2Bundesliga clubs, and even below some Chinese, Irish, and Austrian clubs. They sometimes make it to Europa League, which is pretty prestigious, but once there they tend to get bettered pretty bad by 3rd tier European clubs (hammered 9-0 by Malmo, 3-0 by Molde, 6-2 by Maribor a Slovenian club).

    So I don't think he's likely to build many new skills under these circumstances, playing fewer, (mostly) poorer teams, often in USL stadia, with the rare exception of maybe getting steamrolled by the Swedish champion occasionally in Europe. He's not going to play with anyone as good as Nani. I also don't know that lots of players jump from Scotland for all the same reasons aforementioned (except for sheer proximity, I think the days of seeing SPL as more "credible" than MLS are gone). So hopefully he got paid.
     
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  15. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Aren't the salaries there reported as net after taxes? So, that would be more like $270K here.
     
  16. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #2991 Paul Berry, Jul 22, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
    No.

    According to transfermkt the most valued player at Hearts is worth $880k. Their record transfer fee was $1.765M in 1988/89.
     
  17. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Folks should think about that in relation to the transfer fees of the young Americans from MLS that we've seen since Reggie Cannon. Out of the price range for the non-firm SPL teams.

    .....................but they can nab a guy on a free transfer like Mueller. A good piece of business for a club like Hibs.
     
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  18. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
  19. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Member+

    Nov 10, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
     
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  20. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If Christian knocks in 15 or so in the Scotland it might force our hands to look at what he’s got
     
  21. bnjamin10

    bnjamin10 Member

    Charlotte FC
    Jun 4, 2009
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How do the league coefficients even work then? Celtic/Rangers are 46/52 on the Club Coeffcients and then the next Scottish club is 150+. Belgium has Genk, Gent, Anderlecht, LIege that are all 55-65. Antwerp is at 125 and then the rest are slightly better than their Scottish equivalent. It's a easily a better league top to bottom.

    I would unironically rather him stay in MLS than go to Scotland honestly. He's only guaranteed to play 4 games a season against decent competition. (The group stage for the Europa Conference ends in December so Hibs will likely already be out by then.)
     
  22. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    Why? Everyone knows it already. Would be another wasted call.
     
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  23. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Mueller's options were limited. When Gressel and Atlanta couldn't come to an agreement, Atlanta traded him to a club that would pay him. Mueller had earlier interest from clubs in Belgium; Orlando turned them down. Orlando didn't trade him, didn't sell him, and I suspect they also blocked his participation in the GC. Gotta wonder about Dike's future.
     
  24. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The 2nd-highest paid player on Hibs last season made $350k. The money might be better at Hibs than whatever Orlando offered, but I doubt it would be by any significant amount.
     
  25. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well you can see how they add up on UEFA coefficients web page.

    Scotland had 2 good years, the best being 19/20 when Celtic and Rangers made it to the knockout phase and Rangers made it to the last 16.

    While Celtic and Rangers are ranked 46 and 52, Belgium, Austria, Denmark, Serbia, Turkey and the Netherlands all only have one team ranked in the top 50.
     
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