It's a HONDA S2000. But I disagree with that characterization of LDLT anyway. The S2000 has the distinction of having the highest HP/liter of displacement of any naturally aspirated engine ever produced (that is to say, not turbo- or super-charged). LDLT has no such distinction. In fact, I think all 3 of your car comparisons don't make much sense. I'd say Nagbe is more like a Lotus--great handling but disappointing in final product (top speed in the car world). I don't know what Musah is, but he ain't no damn DODGE. Unreliable pieces of shit. LDLT is an '84 Tercel. Reliable, but thoroughly lacking in power, speed, and maneuverability.
Eh. De la Torre is a great depth option. A guy good enough to start in La Liga. Good enough to slice and dice thru a team like Uzbekistan. I was really impressed with him that game. But whenever the level of competition ramps up, I don't see him at that level. I saw the trio of Musah, McKennie, and Adams stand toe-to-toe against the England midfield of Rice, Bellingham, Mount...........at the World Cup. I saw it with my own eyes. In the second half England replaced Bellingham with Henderson. I won't even disagree with someone who says that we slightly edged that battle. But our problem at that World Cup was that Berhalter didn't seem to trust any of our backup CMs at that level. Maybe de la Torre wasn't fully fit. Either way, he didn't trust him enough to bring him on.
Torre vs Musah? They're both 8s. Both have made the recent transition to getting major minutes in central midfield at club level. Both had served an apprenticeship as shuttlers on the outside of midfield. Neither is a significant goal creator. Neither is a ball-hawking cm, like Adams or Morris or Johnny. Musah is a bit stronger on the ball. Both have good pace. Neither should be in the competition for a single pivot cdm role in a 4123.
Maybe I'm the only one. I think De la Torre has reached his ceiling and he is who he is. I think Musah has significant room to grow and improve. He's still technically a youth player in the eyes of the USYNT forum as he's Olympics-eligible. He only JUST turned 21. He's at a good club for the kind of development he needs. I totally agree with the above assessment of him as a cdm. Playing him there is a stop-gap measure for the moment. We need either Adams to get fit or one of these young CDMs to develop.
I think the issue with Luca for the US has been when playing against teams that will press him or get physical he has tended to struggle or get bumped off the ball a lot. He absolutely has a spot on the team though as I think he's proven to be very valuable against teams that will bunker. Nothing wrong with that In comparison to Musah, I think Musah has made a lot of strides at Milan already. As I said in his Yanks Abroad thread he's done the unthinkable for Milan fans in not only benching Rade Krunic (whose Pioli's favorite) but has also gotten Pioli to greenlight the sale of Krunic. Musah has also gotten better in the final third.... still had to work on his awareness of whose around him though.
Torre was a late transition to cm from winger so he has more room to grow than would be the norm for a player his age. Musah, given his age, size, and athletic ability, likely has the higher ceiling. He could develop as a dm at some point but is certainly not one now.
There was a moment where I think people got a little over their ski's with him. I think he was always a functional prospect who disappeared for several years in, I think, a loan army situation, found his way to the Netherlands, made good, became a high floor 8 of a very specific sort (not great defensively, not a hard man, good shuttler, but not super creative or goal dangerous either). People need to remember that he's a floor USMNTer, a depth piece in case of loads of injuries. If he's a critical part of the XI, or a critical next man up, it's a problem, not a good thing. It's a good thing to have him when we didn't have him before, but it's not a good situation to be relying upon him because he's basically firmly a starter with teams in that 35th-60th in the world caliber, he aint a plus in a lineup when you're playing legit top 20-30 sides, he's a liability, depending upon the matchup. Just appreciate the added depth and reasonable floor, and lets not pretend he's actually special. He's not, he's more an adequate in a pinch guy (sometimes, based on matchup, style of play).
Your analogy is far more technically accurate than mine, however you're way too harsh on LDLT. However, I must correct you.., Nagbe is an AMC Pacer LDLT is an AMC Gremlin Musah is an International Scout.
I think Luca de la Torre has only started one game against a top 20 national team. That was the Japan friendly prior to the World Cup. We really haven't particularly tested him against good teams. I think he has 5 starts in games that mattered for the USMNT. 22WCQ USMNT 3 Honduras 0 22WCQ USMNT 5 Panama 1 22-23NL USMNT 5 Grenada 0 22-23NL USMNT 7 Grenada 1 23-24NL USMNT 1 T&T 2 And we were doing just fine in that T&T game until the Dest sending off. Anyway................my point is that when people say de la Torre isn't good enough to start against the 20-30 nations, we don't actually have a lot of data points to defend that position with.
This is speculation about Hollingshead. I doubt he'd turn down anything other than January camp, maybe, because it's out of season and he has other responsibilities then. The USMNT managers deserve major criticism for dropping the ball. Vis a vis Nagbe, I think Chandler's a fair comparison, because Darlington did bail easily, and when he did play it was little heart. He escapes being a villain for the disqualification somehow. Him punking out of challenges at T&T + Honduras is part of the reason we didn't advance.
Career npxG, xA, and SCA per 90: .06, .07, 1.95 Musah .05, .07, 2.26 Nagbe .12, .13. 2.91 Lletget .25, .24, 3.88 Reyna .08, .10, 2.39 Luca I think these actually provide an accurate stylistic distinction for each player. Gio in a separate category as an attacker. Musah and Nagbe not very directly dangerous with Nagbe a bit more likely to be involved in moves that end in shots. Luca a little bit more attacking than that and Lletget a bit more attacking than Luca. So I don’t see how one can put Nagbe in the same category as Reyna, when it comes to what he does. Nagbe is a Dembele, Wijnaldum style connector and ball retention specialist. Musah is as well. Luca is a little bit more of a rhythm passer and less strong under pressure. Reyna and Malik are AMs, a separate broad category of player. They can play as 8/10s but they lean more towards the latter than the former. Nagbe does have more ability, he can do the spectacular. His career goal reel is quite nice. He just doesn’t get into those situations often enough or assert himself enough to be a natural AM.
Yes, we do. It doesn't matter if he started or not. If anything he should have had the advantage with fresh legs. Yet he sucked after coming on in the 2nd half v. Canada. Ironically you're excluding even struggling against teams outside the top 20. Then what we do against those inside of it? We saw it v. Germany too where he came on for the 2nd half and also was dominated. It's been proven beyond a reasonable doubt now he's an adequate stand-in against average or worse sides, and not even against the better ones.
Luca had 4k CM minutes for Heracles before moving to Celta. Yunus has 2,895 pro CM minutes over his entire career.
If people are paying attention to my posts (and I'm not quite sure why they would)...................I once called de la Torre a fraud. I'm not a fan. But I will stand by the fact that we really haven't used him in games that have mattered. And that's partially his fault. It was de la Torre that pulled himself out of the 2021 Gold Cup roster. So then when WCQing started, he wasn't really an option. Berhalter went with the guys who'd been with the team that summer. I mean, Luca de la Torre only has 20 caps. Very few of them starts. Very few of them against good teams. He's gotten the Jesus Ferreira treatment. If you're citing one or two games, then that's not a lot of data points. If we think Gio Reyna and Malik Tillman should play centrally.....................then I think de la Torre will remain a bit player. He's fine. I did like what he was doing against Uzbekistan. A better team than I think many of us expected them to be.
Torre has been putting together a solid track record in a top league. The Ferreira mention is out of hand.
LDLT just strikes me as a one paced player who has a tremendous workrate. Otherwise he doesn't make great passes and he doesn't create time and space. Some teams need that sort of engine in midfield but I don't see it making a difference at international level. He is sort of similar to Adams as a DM as he can cover for defenders who push forward but Adams can do a lot more.
De La Torre has zero goals and 5 assists for the USMNT in 20 caps. 3 of those assists were against Grenada. Pirate of the Caribbean! I would call being "OK" for the worst team in Holland one year...................."meh." And I haven't been as impressed by his performance for Celta Vigo as others. But whatever. He breathes in Europe so he's better than domestic options. Certainly way behind Reyna and Tillman at this point.