I'm pretty certain that he's a citizen. He may be using a Euro passport in Sweden, but I think he's just from Washington. I'm sure there are people who know better than me though.
leighton o'brien is a former seattle sounder, scored twice this weekend - he gets weekly updates in the YA forum
Razov was a bust in Spain and Twellman a bust in Germany, yet both are outstanding in MLS. What makes you think that Casey and Kirovski are not capable of the same amount of success in MLS? Each has done better in Europe than Razov & Twellman. Too often here posters confuse MLS success with the ability to suceed in Europe. Only at Beasley's and Bocanegra's positions is the Fire better than the YA side and Beasley over Lewis is more a matter of potential than results at this point. Berhalter is a significantly better player than Curtin at this point. I have yet to see enough of Onyewu to form a good opinion and wouldn't have chosen to put Hernandez in the YA side anyway. The YA side would control play. While Beasley and Ralph are fast, so is Gibbs and from what I understand Onyewu as well. Beasley is faster than anybody he ever plays against and doesn't get that many opportunities to exploit that advantage. You don't think Cherundolo, Berhalter, O'Brien and Reyna play against players nearly as fast, but better skilled than Beasley? Yanks abroad v. Home based players would be a much more interesting match.
It would definetly be a very interesting match, even maybe the next MLS All-Star game. World Cup qualifiers are to start in June 04 right in the middle of MLS season, most YA players will be off, it would make sense to have them play then to take away players from their MLS Clubs.
Here's my 11 (based on current form) 4-4-2 Keller Whitbread,Gibbs,Onyewu,Vanney 'Dolo,Reyna,Enochs,Lewis Casey,Cooper Subs: Howard,Yi,Barrett,Berhalter
Want to explain this - re Razov? In his only season in Spain, he played in 19 games and scored 6 goals. Kirovski's best season was 5 goals, but it took him 36 games to do this. Throw out JoKi's best season, and his cumulative total is 5 goals in seven years. In other words, the bust Razov scored almost as many goals in one year as Kirovski has his entire career. The only thing I can think of is that Razov returned home while JoKi is happy to collect a paycheck with his splinters, and this somehow makes JoKi a sucess and Razov a failure.
Level of Competition Kirovski has been on teams playing at the top level in their respective countries. Success is much more difficult to acheive in the BL or EPL than in the lower Spanish divisions. Kirovski's skills have enabled him to land contracts at top clubs in Europe while the top clubs took a flyer on Razov. Don't waste your time with comparative statistics, this isn't baseball! Look at the game, the opposition and the player. Kirovski is a more creative player, a withdrawn attacker, where Razov is a target forward. Razov should have more goals. Training every day with an EPL side and playing reserve matches is better experience than playing in MLS, unless the player in question is very young. Kirovski is not getting splinters, he's training, playing and collecting a good paycheck. He'd do very well in MLS, but he wouldn't be pushing himself. Is Kirovski a disapointment? Sure. With the skills he has and the experience he's received, he should be a lot more productive. He is, however, a better soccer player than Razov.
I never argued that Kirovski is a better player than Razov (though he is NOT) or that Kirovski at one point in time was not considered to have more potential. Those points really don't help explain why Razov is a "bust" and Kirovski is not. While I agree this is not baseball, games played does tell you a lot about whether a player is a bust -- because if he is a bust, the coach won't play him. In this case, Razov always played in his time in Europe and Kirovski almost never does. While JoKi was once thought of highly by big clubs, that is not the case now. The only current difference is that JoKi has a work permit that allows him to ride pine in England, while Razov does not -- and the fact that Razov was considered useful by his last European coach, while Kirovski has only been considered useful in one, or at most two, of his last seven European seasons. Who is the bust?
At this point, I'd partner Casey with Jacob Thomas up top--and use the latter as a withdrawn forward to run his a** off for about 70 minutes or so. Think that would be a decent partnership in the end.
Razov's been better for the Nats as well. It's not like anybody in Europe thinks Kirovski's any good either. His only real playing time was in Div. 1 in Engalnd and he eventually lost his job there too. He's just decided to stick it out over there and cash paychecks. At least Razov has been good _somewhere._ And far as Razov "should have more goals," he gets more assists too. Kirovski's a creative attacker without the creativity or the attacking. He can hold the ball with the best of them, however he has shown me little ability to actually do something productive with it.
The point of Razov's going to play in the lower divisions in Spain was to secure the interest of and a contract from a top level team. Didn't happen. At the same time Kirovski has managed to accomplish signing with top level teams on several occasions. Somebody over their thinks he's a decent player. Yes, he has the work permit, but that alone doesn't get you on top tier sides in three different countries. How has Razov been better than Kirovski for the USMNT? Number of appearances ("games played does tell you a lot about whether a player is a bust") as Martin Fischer suggests? USMNT coaches must think pretty highly of Kirovski considering the number of times he has played compared to Razov. Why do you feel Razov is so good? Because of goals scored in MLS? That would make Roy Lassiter and Jason Kreis better than just about anybody. Come to think of it Lassiter may have more caps than Razov.
Despite what is posted below by old boy, I never have argued that Razov is great and Kirovski is a bust. Once again, repeating slowly, I just argued how one can trumpet Kirovski as a European club success and denigrate Razov as a Euro club bust based on the actual records -- Razov always played for his club, while JoKi doesn't. Why do you keep bringing up that teams used to think Kirovski had potential -- if anything it just shows that he is a bust NOW. I have no idea why Razov returned to MLS, other than given his options, which may have existed or not, he simply wanted to. National Team call-ups depend a lot upon player availability. I think if you looked at who played in critical games when most or all of the competitors at their positon, you would get a good idea of who the coaches valued more. JoKi has played 34 times in the Arena era to 21 times for Razov due to (1) the fact that his reputation was super high until he kept riding pine for his club and (2) the fact that he is always available when Arena does not want to piss off a club coach of a guy who actually plays for his club. I have watched some USMNT and I think Razov has played better than JoKi, at least in the last three years (when Kirovski became completely rusted out) I don't. He is mediocre on the international level, at a slightly higher level of mediocrity than JoKi. My opinion of Lassiter is based on seeing him play. While appearances for a club side can tell you a lot about what a coach thinks of a player since coaches buy players to use them, they don't tell you anything about who is better. You have to use your eyes (i.e. Brian McBride is a much beter player than Razov and especially Lassiter and Kreis, despite statistics). I don't know, but Arena capped Razov 21 times to 4 for Lassiter. I can't vouch for Steve Sampson.
The U.S. will begin qualifying play with a second round home-and-away series against a Caribbean nation on consecutive weekends in June. http://www.mlsnet.com/content/03/us1106wwcq.html why not an all YA team
1. Jovan Kirovski 2. Steve Cherundolo in an attacking midfield position 3. A bunch of YAs with potential but not proven.
pay attention... nobody called JK a euro success - he called razov a euro bust, which may or may not be harsh - still... JK-manU, european champions dortmund, sporting, palace, b'ham razov - racing de ferrol (segunda division) ... the competition comparison is appropriate - if JK does come to play for MLS next season, he'll be among the top scorers - and frankly i feel kirovski was unfairly pinned to the bench last season after scoring 2 winners in 3 matches - now the brummies have added forssell and dugarry, who are obviously better and have pushed JK into the reserve side now this is being kind - however, razov has grown as a player in the least couple years and i think he could find more success with the USMNT
Please read the post again. More slowly, if you must. Old boy called razov a euro bust while JoKi was not. If you want to be completely anal, I am challenging his contention that Razov is a Euro bust while JoKi is not. I agree that Kirovski has failed at clubs far superior to the one Razov suceeded for. ... the competition comparison is appropriate [/B][/QUOTE] Once again, a failure at some good clubs (though let's not forget Crystal Palace and Fortuna Koln) does not in my book turn Kirovski into a sucess. I doubt it, but that's not my point. I doubt Kirovski could be a top scorer in any professional league, though he could suceed in some, probably including MLS. It's all relative. I don't think it is being kind. Based on his play for the USMNT in qualifiers, I think mediocre is about right. Razov did score two goals in those qualifiers (I note that Kirovski only scores in friendlies), for which I thank him and recognize his contribution. I think he has improved and might be able to get up to "decent" for the USMNT.
hmmm... nope he didn't say JK was a euro success here... nope... not here either ok smug... so where did this get stated? before you try condescending to someone with the read more slowly smack, maybe you should realize that you're completely wrong and again i say the competition comparison is very fair because, and stay with me on this one... kirovski has always dealt with a much higher level of competition (both in matches and for a place in the side) than razov did for six months - therefore, one cannot just say "razov w/ 6 goals > kirovski w/ 5 goals" - as you pointed out, JK is generally a benchwarmer while razov was a starter... another variable you ignored - and finally, the best proof of all... if razov was so impressive in europe, why didn't he last? really all the JK bashing is clownish - i hope he does come to MLS and tears it up (as he would) so you can start a "why isn't kirovski in europe?" thread
Because we want to win with no chance of losing. We better bring the full arsenal to these games and if we win 43-0 on aggregate, well maybe that'll teach CONCACAF and we won't have to do it next time.
Wouldn't he be happier on a YA bench? Having looked at the previous lineups, I'd realy like to opt for a 4-5-1: Howard, Freidel, Keller, Hahneman Gibbs, Berhalter, Sannah, Chern, JOB Reyna. Granted, we'd need a rule change, but we'd be tough to score on, with each keeper only having six feet to protect. I like our ability to get forward from the back. Though Reyna as a lone mid-fielder might feel a bit overwhelmed. But, my guess is, we score as well as a JK/Casey tandem up front.
....and the lack of action by the US nats has turned the US forum and YA into a festering boil. And it comes down to shoe size to decide ....