http://www.yanks-abroad.com/get.php?mode=content&id=5433 Discuss. I will begin by saying that clearly the most likely at this point to defect is Lletget (and the whys of that, and the implications are good discussion points IMO). The article was also somewhat remiss in not clarifying that Renken has been rehabbing a knee injury, which is a very legitimate reason for leaving him home in any case. IIRC, of the players we did take to Nigeria, Luis Gil is also a dual national, a Mexican-American. There are probably others that are escaping me.
So giving spots to players who would likely go to college for a free ride rather than become a Pro. Thats how i determine it on the flip-side. These "dual" players already have Contracts abroad and are showing the initiative to try and become succesful with their careers and Since USSF objective currently is to build US stars..why piss them off?. Really, Lletget and Gyau's replacements better be trying to go pro after.........not college soccer. Everybody( or at least most) was saying how we would gladley accept Subotic back..well how about we dont let the situation get to it.
I wish everyone would stop putting Renken in this discussion. The kid has had two knee surgeries in the past 2 years and is still not 100%. Totally reasonable to leave him off. If Cabrera had put him on the squad and he reinjured his knee during the tournament, people would be screaming for Cabrera's head because he rushed Renken back to try to win the meaningless tournament. In my opinion, Renken should be completely cut out of this discussion it's not even the same issue. As for Llegett, from everything I have read, it seems clear the kid didn't want to commit to the team. I don't think there was a "you have to stay in residency" condition. I think there was a "you have to come to camp before the tournament and prepare with the team" condition and Llegett didn't want to do it. His choice. If I were coach, I wouldn't take a kid unwilling to do that either, no matter how good he is. Cabrera is trying to coach/create a team, not a bunch of talented primadonas who take the field and can't play together. As for Gyau, I think that situation is more complicated and I know nothing of the details. But, even in qualifying, Gyau was coming in off of the bench, not starting. So, perhaps Cabrera thought he wasn't good enough. Perhaps, Gyau and Cabrera had issues that should have been put aside but weren't (if that's the case, then Cabrera may have some blame on this one, of course, I don't really know). Or, perhaps like Llegett, Gyau didn't want to meet the reasonable conditions to be on the team. I don't know. One thing is clear, Gyau wasn't starting before, so I don't see why he would be starting now. On the issue of kids going to college, I bet the vast majority of these players who are on the team would love to go pro. Some of them will get offers that are worth taking, some of them won't. I think it's worth bringing all of your committed kids, regardless of if they're going to be able to go pro or not. Also, some of the kids may go to college for a bit and then go pro (perhaps only to MLS, but pro nonetheless). I think this experience is valuable for those kids too.
What's the difference between "the team" versus Wilmer? At this point if they are the same yes, Lletget could not commit to the US. I personally don't think so. SL has been in the NT system since U14. I can't find the article but Lletget chose West Ham and he mentioned he did not like the locked down culture that is Bradenton. Lletget said he was given an ultimatum to join Bradenton with the same class as Renken and Gyau if he wanted to be considered for the NT. Wilmer denies that ultimatum. It's not the US, it's Wilmer in my opinion. Renken, was he rushed back? 20/20 is hindsight but it sure sucks to lose one of your studs in a friendly prior to the qualifier. Gyau, there is nothing written about it but by BS sources, it sounds like a Dad and ego issue. But whatever it is with Gyau, Lletget and Wilmer, it became personal. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Or9ku0R7Tk"]YouTube - Joseph Claude Gyau[/ame]
Cabrera's the coach.......and he can take whomever he likes. If he doesn't think Gyau fits in with his team.......fine. If one of his pre-requisites for being on the WC team was the pre-tournament camp.........and Lletget wouldn't go........fine. If Lletget chooses not to represent the US (assuming he turns out to be good enough).....because he had a problem with a US youth coach.......then that's beyond pathetic. But we'll get there........when we get there. Renken isn't an issue. I don't even know how much he's recovered from his injury.
Re: Renken, one of my main criticisms of the article was the way in which they glossed over his injury, implying that Renken was left off in part because of the dual citizenship issue. A point which I think is dishonest and misleading. In general, I think the article is fairly inconsistent on the issue of dual nationality on this team. I wouldn't at all be surprised if that was a factor in the decision to leave Lletget off (and whether or not this is the best decision in his case is of course open for debate), but it's not at all clear that Gyau's exclusion has much if anything to do with it. As we've all noted, Renken's knee is more than sufficient to explain his exclusion, and no mention was even made of, say, Gil's inclusion, and IIRC Gil has even mentioned somewhere that he'd be open to talking to FMF if things worked out that way, or something to that effect. In other words, while some interesting discussion points regarding dual nationality are raised, I think the point of the article--that Cabrera excluded arguably our three biggest-name U17 prospects primarily over unresolved dual nationality issues--is off the mark. EDIT: Going back and re-reading the article, I think I misread it a little bit. The article discusses the controversy (as well as his opinion of why this shouldn't trouble us unduly), but this doesn't seem to be his main assertion.
It doesn't follow that Lletgett is a primadona just because he didn't want to come to the warm-up camp. While he's been in WHU's system for several years, he just started full time there a few months ago. He's still making first impressions. While none of us know the particulars at this point in time, it would be perfectly rational of him to decide to show some dedication to the folks he is counting on training him to take the next steps up the ladder to, hopefully, landing a pro contract. Sure, the U-17WC could help with that too, but he's in a good place. Everyone should get off this kid's back about this situation until we know a LOT more facts instead of this useless speculation. Maybe no one at WHU would mind him taking off time for the USA . . . but that plan hasn't worked out so well for other (more famous) Yanks Abroad who missed club time for US Youth tournements. Bottom line-- Lletget is in a good place for his development, he's never played for another country. As far as any one knows, the Italians don't even know he exists. Remember, Rossi was being lured away from Parma by Manchester United when he was Lletget's age. The two situations are light-years apart. Let's all just hope he develops into an awesome player who plays lights-out for the USA. If he becomes great and plays for Italy instead, well that's just one more example of how Italy can't win games without finding Americans to play for them. Cheers.
Fair point on the primadona issue. I should not have implied that Llegett is a primadona. I have no evidence that he is and i think it would be a totally legitimate choice for him to stay at WHU and train rather than join the u-17s for the pre-tournament camp. To the extent my post suggested otherwise, I appologize. I agree Lleget is in a good situation and I certainly don't know any facts about why he truly is not on this u-17 WC squad. My "primadona" point was more accurately targeted on the BS posters who seem to suggest that if a kid is good enough, we should put him on the squad even if he is unwilling/unable to go to pre-tournament camp. This is the situation that I see as coddling primadonnas who want US soccer to bow to them. I think that view is misguided and kids should have to make required commitments if they want to play in the U-17 world cup (just as Packwood did). That was my point, not intending to label Llegett as a primadona. I have no evidence that he is and I agree it would not be fair to label a kid as such with no support of it. As far as I can tell, he's just doing what he thinks is best for his own career and I actually applaud the kid for that.
Thanks for this. Total agreement on the first point; given his professional situation, I don't think we really need him to come. Arguably the greatest value of the U17 WC to us is a scouting showcase to get some of our best teenagers the chance to generate interest from teams such as Lletget's West Ham. He's already where he needs to be for now, and some of the others aren't yet; this is their chance. As for the dual nationality situation, what his feelings are at this point and what they will be when it's actually relevant are not necessarily the same. I'll assume that Italy and Argentina know who he is, though I'd be surprised if they particularly cared at this point in time. If a year or two from now he becomes West Ham's prize starlet and is fast-tracked into their senior team, well then, that situation would likely change. But it does not appear that giving him a U17 spot or not would have anything to do with his decision whether or not to jump ship at that time. Another issue that you vaguely touch on: losing a creator like Lletget, provided that he does indeed develop into such a starlet, would be a loss, no question about it. But as you'd mentioned, his situation was different from Rossi's from the beginning. Up to this point, he's essentially the product of the United States. Italy or Argentina's potential future swoop could provide the impetus for increased scouting interest among Big 4 leagues for American born-and-bred talent. Rossi, though he grew up in the States, was more an Italian, made-in-Parma product than a product of soccer in the States.
Not sure what you mean by what's the difference between Wilmer and the team? The team is not just the coach but the group of guys who are going to be out there with you working hard for one another as well. I for one have always found it frustrating when a guy I have been working with and feel has "gelled" with the team gets replaced by someone with better skills but is not really part of the team in terms of performance. You see this all the time in professional sports where a team buys up a bunch of amazing talent from other teams but does not succeed (think Real Madrid, Yankees, Phoenix Suns, etc. in certain years). As a player, I always want someone who is committed to me and the team and works well with us. So, I don't think the team and Wilmer are the same at all. Wilmer is the coach, but he is only part of the team. Wasn't the ultimatim Llegget said he was given before Wilmer anyway? I think it's fine that Llegget didn't like the Bradenton culture, and to be clear, if a condition of him being on the team was staying in residency, I think that is wrong and misguided. Players should not have to stay in residency to be on the U-17 world cup squad. My understanding from what has been said previously (and the fact that Packwood is on the squad) that staying in residency was not a pre-condition, only going to the pre-world cup camp was.
1) Is this in general or a comment to me? there was No Renken in my response since i knew he was injured. 2) He has had this team for 2 years now. If he is still building and creating his team to the point where one "primadana" is going to effect it..well ill just say i doubt he is a "primadona". No evidence of that. The kid since the U-14 team has been "American" walking around West Ham when he first arrived as a 13-14 year old wearing USA gear. 3) Gyau and company wanted to be a starter where he belonged. Cabrera was using him as the 60th minute super-sub to win the games. It goes either way Win more games? or give more development minutes to one of your best prospects?.....So pick your choice, obviously i got no say in that.......but one thing i noticed is when you have a slow CB like Jared Watts who had just returned from injury and lineup as your Right Winger in late 2008 which puts Gyau on the bench.......than wow just on that situation. Its Like putting a just returned from Injury Onyewu at RW and putting Donovan/Holden on the bench.
Number 1 was a general comment not directed at you. It was directed at the title. number 2 - I clarified earlier I didn't mean to suggest Llegett is a primadona. I know of nothing suggesting that he is and that wasn't my intent. I didn't mean to disparage him if that's how people read that post. See my earlier post on that. I have no problems with what it seems to me Llegett did, I just have no problems with what it seems to me Cabrera did either. Number 3 - I agree with you on Watts, I have not been impressed since his injury and wouldn't be starting him let alone moving him around to different positions. The Gyau situation is the most perplexing to me as it seemed like one day he was a rising star on the team and the next he was a sub. I'd have thought he would be a starter and I don't understand using one of your most talented as a super sub if that's what was going on. The Gyau situation seems like the one of the three that most likely came down to personal issues between coach and his camp and player and his. Again, I don't know, just speculating.
Anybody but me notice that Gyau at this moment looks a lot like a young Freddy Adu, a super-dribbler ball wizard (with a very quick first step) that lacks in terms of vision and with a so-so shot? The talent is there for sure, though I'm not sure that Cabrera isn't wrong when it comes to putting him on the bench as an attacking spark rather than considering him a starter, as far as winning games are concerned.
No. The kid has Vision. I dont think you watch him play in that regards. . And in reference to Freddy Adu? Freddy Adu at 14 had every single tool in the bag, no matter what competition it was with the U-17's, he was a major factor that was hard to stop.. We screwed the pooch on that one..lets hope we dont do it again.
This is just the thing. Some of us think he's a great prospect............other's aren't sure. And if Cabrera thought other options were better.........or if he thought Gyau was going to be a "problem" if he wasn't starting..........then I'm fine with his decision to leave him off. (No evidence of that "problem thing. It's just an example). Building the best team isn't necessarily about getting the 23 most talented guys. Addition by subtraction in this case?
You're totally free to disagree with me, but I am watching. And what I'm seeing is that he doesn't read the game like Renken and Lletget. It very strongly looks to me as though he doesn't see the space and think the game at their speed. To my eye, he looks to want to beat his man on the dribble and then see what transpires as a result. He's very good with his feet, and he's quick, and sometimes manages succeed in threading a dangerous ball through the defense about a second or so after he optimally should have, a play that's not so much a product of great vision but great skill. By contrast, Renken, who's also a dribbler, releases his teammates often before they realize there's a chance.
Given that I have only seen the games that have been televised for this squad, but I have seen very little to suggest that Gyau should be talked about in same breath as Renken and Llegett as prospects. He makes some maze-y runs, but that's really about it. I certainly haven't seen the vision #1FA is alluding to. He seems to have some nice chemistry with Renken (though Renken seems to have that chemistry with everybody). I don't mean to get down on him, he's clearly a worthwhile player but I haven't seen a "star." I've seen a guy who is probably one of the top 4 or 5 non-defensive midfielders for the team. That is often enough to make the team. Even enough to get playing time. But not good enough to still expect a spot if there are any kinds of extenuating circumstances at all. Now if Renken, as clearly one of the top 2 or 3 players on this team, weren't coming back from two major knee surgeries and was still passed over then we'd have a story. As for Llegett, well, no reason to panic until there's reason to panic. He made the choice that he thought was best for his career in the longer term. We'll see how it plays out.
Because your comparing him to Renken and Lletget strongest aspects. Duh. Just because Donovan dosent have the same Vision as Maradona dosent mean Donovan dosent have Vision.
No, I'm comparing his vision to the degree of vision necessary to make those maze-y runs effective. Dribbling past a few players doesn't do much good without being able to make the final pass. Just ask Justin Mapp. There are quite a few times, even in the highlight video in this thread, where he misses very simple passes to put teammates in on goal because he has his head down. That said, given a good amount time and space he seems to be able to get off a decent cross. For the moment he looks like a player with good dribbling skills, good quickness and pace, and not much else. Hopefully those other aspects to his game develop and he becomes a world beater. At the moment, again from the small amount I've seen, those other aspects aren't far enough along to suggest he is key player for this team. In the even smaller amount I've seen of Sarle he actually looks like a more polished version of Gyau with better vision. In my viewings (yes, I'm going to keep qualifying my statements because I haven't seen more than a handful of matches from any of them) I would put Llegett, Gil, Martinez, and Sarle above him on the RM depth chart. If you want to make it an A-mid depth chart replace Martinez with Renken. If I were the coach, I would probably see late-game super-sub as the perfect role for his skill set.
yeah i dont think Renken will be a problem in the future. he seems commited to the stars and stripes This is from an article on him earlier in the year in April: "My doctor ([U.S. national team physician Dr. Bert Mandelbaum] says that my surgery was perfect and I honestly feel fantastic," Renken said. "Before the operation, I thought there was no way I could be back for the world championships [in October], but my doctor says I am responding so well that it is possible." Added Renken: "I hope I can. I want to represent my country. I can't wait to play again. In the meantime, I am just rooting on my teammates. They are great players and great friends and I know that they will do great." The two knee injuries in just over a year have frustrated Renken. Still, he's trying to think about all of his dreams that lie ahead. He hopes for a glorious return to the U-17s at the World Cup in Nigeria -- set for Oct. 24 to Nov. 15. Certainly, a lot of people are eagerly awaiting Renken's return to the pitch. "I know that lots of teams have called and I am flattered," Renken said. "It means a lot when people check in with you when you are hurt. I have ambition to be a top player... I know I have to work hard to get there and find the right environment." http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=640385&sec=us&cc=5901
I think Freddy's had a bit to do with his situation as well. There's enough pooch screwing to go around for everyone in that situation.
Probably. I don't want to get off topic here, but from what I've read the Whitecaps Residency appears to be more forward-looking than any of the MLS academies thus far. One aspect of the Whitecaps' program is securing pro opportunities for players in Europe (mostly Germany), in addition to bringing some of them up to the Whitecaps' 1st team. When Vancouver joins MLS in '11 I wonder if they'll continue the Residency as it's currently structured.
I think that's their plan, but of course they won't be able to have free movement between their residency kids and the full team. But they can sign kids to the league just like Dallas did with Leyva, DC did with Hamid, etc. The big difference between the Vancouver Whitecaps and some MLS programs, is that kids lose their NCAA eligibility if they join the Whitecaps residency program. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but you can imagine that could be a drawback for some parents. I don't really know why Gyau needed to leave residency early.............so he could train with the Whitecaps, though. This isn't Barcelona we're talking about here. If he had stayed a couple of months, he'd have gotten the chance to go to this World Cup. There's probably a behind-the-scenes story I don't fully understand (as has been rumored).
I just figured that attending Vancouver instead of Bradenton was a part of his Hoffenheim deal. Isn't that who he and Renken are signed to ultimately?