1997/1998 Season 30. 31st August 1997 match versus Lecce: 1 assists for Zidane - Deschamps assists Inzaghi’s 84th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQteSM5F7qQ&t=2m37s - Zidane assists Conte’s 90th minute goal for Juventus (4th assists for Zidane) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQteSM5F7qQ&t=2m56s 31. 14th September 1997 match versus AS Roma: 0 assists for Zidane - 0 goals for Juventus 32. 21st September 1997 match versus Brescia Calcio: 1 assists for Zidane - Zidane causes a Filippini’s 7th minute own-goal for Juventus (not an OPTA assist) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahTfqi8aweQ&t=1m03s - Di Livio assists Conte’s 36th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahTfqi8aweQ&t=88s - Birindelli assists Inzaghi’s 38th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahTfqi8aweQ&t=125s - Zidane assists Del Piero’s 56th minute goal for Juventus (5th assist for Zidane) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oipOF3BpPe8&t=2m08s 33. 27th September 1997 match versus Sampdoria: 0 assists for Zidane - Deflection for Inzaghi’s 90th minute goal for Juventus 34. 5th October 1997 match versus Fiorentina: 0 assists for Zidane - Birindelli assists Inzaghi’s 33rd minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MuaW18owbE&t=1m42s - Deflection for Del Piero’s 36th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MuaW18owbE&t=2m05s 35. 19th October 1997 match versus AS Bari: 1 assist for Zidane -Del Piero causes a Ingesson’s 45th minute own-goal for Juventus (not an OPTA assist) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itPJsmXOqVk&t=1m02s - Conte assists Zidane’s 63rd minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKvHF-_PpLE&t=0m04s - Amoruso assists Zidane’s 81st minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKvHF-_PpLE&t=13s - Zidane assists Del Piero’s 88th minute goal for Juventus (6th assist for Zidane) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itPJsmXOqVk&t=164s - Del Piero causes a Garzya’s 90th minute own-goal for Juventus (not an OPTA assist) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itPJsmXOqVk&t=2m58s 36. 1st November 1997 match versus Udinese: 0 assists for Zidane - Deflection for Conte’s 36th minute goal for Juventus - Pecchia assists Inzaghi’s 68th minute goal for Juventus (Zidane’s final ball changes trajectory after Pecchia receives it, if you line up the initial course of the pass, otherwise would have been a Zidane assist) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-GU2_IOKgs&t=1m49s - Penalty-kick opportunity for Del Piero’s 72th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-GU2_IOKgs&t=2m10s - Del Piero assists Amoruso’s 89th minute goal for Juventus (5th assist for Del Piero) 37. 9th November 1997 match versus Napoli: 0 assists for Zidane (possibility of 1 assist that I cannot verify) - Del Piero assists Zidane’s 38th minute goal for Juventus (6th assist for Del Piero) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB1qIqdCCy4&t=1m35s - I could not verify who made the assist (even after reviewing the full game and the multiple replay angles), the camera pans away from a Juventus goal-kick, to Fonseca receiving the ball for his 88th minute goal for Juventus (all I can say is that the assist does not belong to Amoruso, Del Piero, or Dimas who is seen on camera, but not involved in play, a possible Zidane assist, but no evidence) 38. 23rd November 1997 match versus Parma: 0 assists for Zidane - Di Livio assists Del Piero’s 43th minute goal for Juventus - Fonseca assists Amoruso’s 82nd minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZ1FhWXfsRk&t=188s 39. 30th November 1997 match versus AC Milan: 0 assists for Zidane - Conte assists Inzaghi’s 32nd minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-F1BdbvDGI&t=2m56s 40. 6th December match versus Lazio: 0 assists for Zidane - Shot-deflection for Del Piero’s 15th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI7KplasXJw&t=0m24s - Penalty-kick opportunity for Del Piero’s 34th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI7KplasXJw&t=125s 41. 14th December 1997 match versus Piacenza: 0 assists for Zidane - Conte assists Fonseca’s 78th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_nxotezpwo&t=2m30s 42. 21st December 1997 match versus FC Empoli: 1 assist for Zidane - Shot-deflection for Inzaghi’s 15th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOa5yh4_nP4&t=0m29s - Ferrara assist for Del Piero’s 16th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOa5yh4_nP4&t=44s - Penalty-kick rebound opportunity for Del Piero’s 34th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOa5yh4_nP4&t=1m32s - Zidane assists Del Piero’s 55th minute goal for Juventus (7th assist for Zidane) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOa5yh4_nP4&t=2m18s - Davids (not sure) causes causes a Tonetto’s 79th minute own-goal for Juventus (not an OPTA assist) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOa5yh4_nP4&t=3m05s 43. 4th January 1998 match versus Inter Milan: 0 assists for Zidane - 0 goals for Juventus 44. 11th January 1998 match versus Vicenza: 0 assists for Zidane -Penalty-kick opportunity for Del Piero’s 27th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5mmMWixrsg&t=0m32s - Corner-kick deflection for Ferrara’s 76th minute goal for Juventus (which I wrongly included as Del Piero’s assists before) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5mmMWixrsg&t=46s 45. 18th January 1998 match versus Bologna: 0 assists for Zidane - Deflection for Inzaghi’s 10th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW3JPleF5O0&t=12m06s - Del Piero assists Inzaghi’s 20th minute goal for Juventus (7th assist for Del Piero) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhJo1_1Rjlk&t=1m15s - Direct free-kick opportunity for Del Piero’s 60th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhJo1_1Rjlk&t=2m25s 46. 25th January 1998 match versus Atlanta: 0 assists for Zidane - Del Piero assists Conte’s 65th minute goal for Juventus (8th assist for Del Piero) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCSb3iQncSo&&t=1m53s - Di Livio assists Zidane’s 72nd minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCSb3iQncSo&t=147s - Deschamps assists Zidane’s 90th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCSb3iQncSo&t=2m46s 47. 1st February 1998 match versus Lecce: 0 assists for Zidane - Inzaghi assists Juliano’s 45th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edyGcMrLs9M&t=2m10s - Inzaghi assists Del Piero’s 89th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlLIsSpEwbk&t=41s 48. 8th February 1998 match versus AS Roma: 0 assists for Zidane - Inzaghi assists Zidane’s 45th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSMMYhLVpro&t=2m00s - Di Livio assists Del Piero’s 49th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSMMYhLVpro&t=2m00s - Del Piero assists David’s 65th minute goal for Juventus (9th assist for Del Piero) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSMMYhLVpro&t=4m10s 49. 11th February 1998 match versus Brescia Calcio: 0 assists for Zidane - Del Piero assists Inzaghi’s 52nd minute goal for Juventus (10th assist for Del Piero) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1wBOwc5uGk&t=43s 50. 15th February 1998 match versus Sampdoria: 0 assists for Zidane - Torricelli assists Del Piero’s 5th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z72yhqtYEpc&t=85s - Deflection for Inzaghi’s 11th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z72yhqtYEpc&t=2m39s - Del Piero assists Fonseca’s 78th minute goal for Juventus (11th assist for Del Piero) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z72yhqtYEpc&t=7m13s 51. 22nd February 1998 match verus Fiorentina: 0 assists for Zidane - 0 goals for Juventus 52. 28th February 1998 match versus Bari: 0 assists for Zidane - Inzaghi causes a Neqrouz’s 19th minute own-goal for Juventus (not an OPTA assist) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7_dOgXqE1Q&t=0m30s 53. 8th March 1998 match versus Udinese: 0 assists for Zidane - Fonseca assists Del Piero’s 89th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irEotHw3COg&t=192s 54. 14th March 1998 match versus Napoli: 0 assists for Zidane - Deschamps (not certain, but Zidane’s 21 backshirt is seen in frame not being involved) assists Del Piero’s 45th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xg5EBpGmvYo&t=56s - Di Livio assists Zalayeta’s 75th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xg5EBpGmvYo&t=125s 55. 22nd March 1998 match versus Parma: 0 assists for Zidane - Deflection for Tacchinardi’s 55th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE_fCeV81b0&t=2m28s - Tacchinardi assists Inzaghi’s 60th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE_fCeV81b0&t=180s 56. 5th April 1998 match versus Lazio: 1 assist for Zidane - Zidane assists Inzaghi’s 60th minute goal for Juventus (8th assist for Zidane) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksJQ27qPq-k&t=3m35s 57. 11th April 1998 match versus Piacenza: 0 assists for Zidane - Del Piero assists Zidane’s 53rd minute goal for Juventus (12th assist for Del Piero) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eJjhMeTSlM&t=0m55s - Di Livio assists Del Piero’s 81st minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eJjhMeTSlM&t=1m25s 58. 19th April 1998 match versus FC Empoli: 0 assists for Zidane - Zalayeta assists Pecchia’s 70th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6LOEYB5ZLo&t=115s 59. 26th April 1998 match versus Inter Milan: 0 assists for Zidane - Davids assists Del Piero’s 21st minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvCUOgYbGHA&t=3m15s 60. 3rd May 1998 match versus Vicenza: 0 assists for Zidane - 0 goals for Juventus 61. 10th May 1998 match versus Bologna: 2 assists for Zidane - Zidane assists Inzaghi’s 34th minute goal for Juventus (9th assist for Zidane) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh5vJSt3HHU&t=1m40s - Zidane assists Inzaghi’s 50th minute goal for Juventus (10th assist for Zidane) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh5vJSt3HHU&t=2m35s - Fonseca assists Inzaghi’s 81st minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh5vJSt3HHU&t=301s Findings from the 1997/1998 season: 1) Zinedine Zidane had 10 OPTA criteria assists in the first two domestic seasons as the YouTube highlight already suggested, there was one unmentioned assist for Fonseca’s goal versus Napoli that I cannot rule Zidane out of. 2) I was incorrect to count an assist for Del Piero versus Vicenza, it lowers his tally after two seasons to 12, as opposed to 13, which is what I had previously.
1998/1999 Season 62. 13th September 1998 match versus AC Perugia: 0 assists for Zidane - Del Piero assists David’s 23rd minute goal for Juventus (13th assist for Del Piero) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hadAub1vx9Y&t=1m03s - Del Piero assists Tudor’s 32nd minute goal for Juventus (14th assist for Del Piero) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hadAub1vx9Y&t=85s - Davids assists Pessotto’s 45th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7wATr9oB-0&t=2845s - Del Piero assists Fonseca’s 65th minute goal for Juventus (15th assist for Del Piero) 63. 20th September 1998: 0 assists for Zidane - Tacchinardi assists Inzaghi’s 8th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpv6-YMfsYA&t=0m31s 64. 4th October 1998 match versus Piacenza: 0 assists for Zidane - Del Piero assists Inzaghi’s 8th minute goal for Juventus (16th assist for Del Piero) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHuNglsZp8g&t=35s 65. 18th October 1998 match versus Vicenza: 0 assists for Zidane - Inzaghi assists Del Piero’s 45th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-IibXQ4tQs&t=1m21s 66. 25th October 1998 match versus Inter Milan: 0 assists for Zidane - Penalty-kick rebound opportunity for Del Piero’s 87th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSudCzI-Uts&t=4m15s 67. 8th November 1998 match versus Udinese: 0 assists for Zidane - Birindelli assists Zidane’s 45th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCXRlr51C9A&t=1m00s - Di Livio assists (Transfermarkt says Tacchinardi but I think Di Livio changes the trajectory of the pass with his head) Inzaghi’s 49th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QWCUlstMKE&t=0m30s 68. 15th November 1998 match versus AS Roma: 0 assists for Zidane - 0 goals for Juventus 69. 22nd November 1998 match versus Empoli: 0 assists for Zidane - 0 goals for Juventus 70. 29th November 1998 match versus Bologna: 0 assists for Zidane - 0 goals for Juventus 71. 6th December 1998 match versus Lazio: 0 assists for Zidane - 0 goals for Juventus 72. 13th December 1998 match versus Fiorentina: 0 assists for Zidane - 0 goals for Juventus 73. 20th December 1998 match versus US Salernitana: 1 assist for Zidane - Deflection for Inzaghi’s 20th minute goal for Juventus -Zidane assists Inzaghi’s 29th minute goal for Juventus (11th assist for Zidane) - Di Livio assists Inzaghi’s 87th minute goal for Juventus 74. 6th January 1999 match versus AC Milan: 0 assists for Zidane - Conte assists Fonseca’s 85th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8KibMLU0Jc&t=4m54s 75. 10th January 1999 match versus Bari: 0 assists for Zidane - Pessotto assists David’s 47th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_06QW68BsE&t=0m45s 76. 17th January 1999 match versus Venezia: 0 assists for Zidane - Esnaider assists (could be a deflection off a defender, not sure) Fonseca’s 54th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuz6VsfXtbo&t=111s 77. 24th January 1999 match versus Perugia: 0 assists for Zidane - Conte assists Fonseca’s 49th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh1sxp4jpfc&t=125s Fonseca assists Zidane’s 55th minute goal for Juventus - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh1sxp4jpfc&t=2m14s 78. 31st January 1999 match versus Cagliari Calcio: - 0 goals for Juventus 79. 7th February 1999 match versus AC Parma: 1 assist for Zidane - Inaccurate opponent pass into Tacchinardi’s 15th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkffe7cka5U&t=45s - Zidane assists Fonseca’s 72nd minute goal for Juventus (12th assist for Zidane) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkffe7cka5U&t=5m30s 80. 14th February 1999 match versus Piacenza: 0 assists for Zidane - I cannot verify who causes Manighetti’s 45th minute own-goal for Juventus, but it is not Zidane who does not get involved - Fonseca assists Birindelli’s 90th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhsP8CLpN5c&t=2m06s 81. 21st February 1999 match versus Vicenza: 0 assists for Zidane - Conte assists Amoruso’s 11th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNEhcKlFMFw&t=2m15s - Zidane assists Conte’s 29th minute goal for Juventus (13th assist for Zidane) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNEhcKlFMFw&t=2m29s 82. 27th February 1999 match versus Inter Milan: 0 assists for Zidane - 0 goals for Juventus 83. 13th March 1999 match versus Udinese: 0 assists for Zidane - Di Livio assists Fonseca’s 29th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-61cLvFfI0&t=14s - Davids assists Inzaghi’s 76th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-61cLvFfI0&t=90s 84. 11th April 1999 match versus Bologna: 0 assists for Zidane - Deschamps (Transfermarkt says Davids but I personally think it is Deschamps) assists Inzaghi’s 17th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9L_vkLNoIQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI2GaF0ON0M&t=16s - Eschnaider assists Di Livio’s 81st minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI2GaF0ON0M&t=16s 85. 25th April 1999 match versus Fiorentina: 0 assists for Zidane - Deschamps assists Inzaghi’s 24th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHotoVK13T4&t=43s - Deflection for Conte’s 87th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHotoVK13T4&t=2m00s 86. 2nd April 1999 match versus Salernitana: 0 assists for Zidane - 0 goals for Juventus Findings from the 1998/1999 season: 1) Zinedine Zidane had 13 OPTA criteria assists in the first three domestic seasons as the YouTube highlight already suggested. 2) I did not find any extra assists for Del Piero, so he sits at 16 assists during the same time-frame, one less than I initially thought for the same period of time. 3) I am starting to think Transfermarkt sometimes credits the wrong player for the assists, but I did not bother to check heavily once I knew either Zidane or Del Piero was not involved. 4) If I use FBREF numbers for the total play-time, if we only look into his first three seasons, Zinedine Zidane played 6,884 minutes, had 13 OPTA criteria assists, and averaged 0.170 assists per 90 minutes. I will be busy from tomorrow onwards, so I’ll try finishing this next week. Maybe sooner if I am efficient with my time, which isn’t always the case.
1999/2000 Season 87. 29th August 1999 match versus Reggina: 1 assist for Zidane - Either a deflection, or more likely, a Zidane assist for Inzaghi’s 31st minute goal for Juventus (14th assist for Zidane) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms2GDloXCmE&t=55s 88. 12th September 1999 match versus Cagliari: 0 assists for Zidane - Del Piero assists Conte’s 61st minute goal for Juventus (17th assist for Del Piero) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31GPksVVAfE&t=139s 89. 19th September 1999 match versus Udinese: 0 assists for Zidane - Penalty-kick opportunity for Del Piero’s 21st minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsY5_CYz9U0&t=0m57s - Penalty-kick opportunity for Inzaghi’s 23rd minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsY5_CYz9U0&t=1m25s - Del Piero assists Zambrotta’s 48th minute goal for Juventus (18th assist for Del Piero) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsY5_CYz9U0&t=169s - Davids assists Inzaghi’s 82nd minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsY5_CYz9U0&t=2m09s 90. 25th September 1999 match versus Lecce: 0 assists for Zidane - 0 goals for Juventus 91. 3rd October 1999 match versus Venezia: 0 assists for Zidane - Either a deflection, or an Inzaghi assists for Conte’s 90th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkJULGrVCf4&t=75s 92. 17th October 1999 match versus AS Roma: 0 assists for Zidane - Direct free-kick opportunity for Zidane’s 50th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLeo0LnbTxQ&t=121s (19th assist for Del Piero in a match Zidane did not play in, during 24th October 1999 match versus AS Bari) 93. 31st October 1999 match versus Piacenza: 0 assists for Zidane - Penalty-kick opportunity for Del Piero’s 77th minute goal for Juventus 94. 7th November 1999 match versus Torino Calcio: 0 assists for Zidane - 0 goals for Juventus 95. 21st November 1999 match versus AC Milan: 0 assists for Zidane - Del Piero assists Conte’s 23rd minute goal for Juventus (20th assist for Del Piero) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR4RrCQKFDQ&t=2m21s - Del Piero assists Inzaghi’s 51st minute goal for Juventus (21st assist for Del Piero) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR4RrCQKFDQ&t=2m38s - Taccchinardi assists Kovacevic’s 90th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR4RrCQKFDQ&t=3m43s 96. 28th November 1999 match versus Lazio: 0 assists for Zidane - 0 goals for Juventus 97. 4th December 1999 match versus Bologna: 0 assists for Zidane - Del Piero assists Inzaghi’s 55th minute goal for Juventus (22nd assist for Del Piero) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZfVb2wREV0&t=1m49s - Deflection for Inzaghi’s 71st minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZfVb2wREV0&t=2m09s 98. 12th December 1999 match versus Inter Milan: 0 assists for Zidane - Either a deflection, or a Del Piero assist for Inzaghi’s 20th minute goal for Juventus (decided not to add to Del Piero's tallies, but could be wrong) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_A6Y574D1I&t=0m24s 99. 19th December 1999 match versus Fiorentina: 0 assists for Zidane - Del Piero assists Tudor’s 17th minute goal for Juventus (23rd assist for Del Piero) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCiaQBDh3GM&t=0m43s 100. 6th January 2000 match versus Hellas Verona: 0 assists for Zidane - Zambrotta assists Inzaghi’s 46th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDAsdeQe9r8&t=2m00s 101. 9th January 2000 match versus AC Parma: 0 assists for Zidane - Penalty-kick opportunity for Del Piero’s 69th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaViNyDuk4w&t=2m22s 102. 16th January 2000 match versus Perugia: 0 assists for Zidane - Penalty-kick opportunity for Del Piero’s 26th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5uPMQtGW8E&t=70s - Direct free-kick opportunity for Zidane’s 89th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5uPMQtGW8E&t=1m50s - Deflection for Kovacevic’s 90th minute goal for Juventus (not sure about who did the initial shot that caused the deflection) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5uPMQtGW8E&t=1m58s 103: 23th January 2000 match versus Reggina: 0 assists for Zidane - Del Piero assists Kovacevic’s 34th minute goal for Juventus (24th assist for Del Piero) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjEQ57aPrnQ&t=0m49s - Del Piero assists Zidane’s 64th minute goal for Juventus (25th assist for Del Piero) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdWvi-KQEyc 104. 30th January 2000 match versus Cagliari: 0 assists for Zidane - Deflection for Inzaghi’s 1st minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkkT9x3u5gI&t=0m45s 105. 5th February 2000 match versus Udinese: 0 assists for Zidane - Del Piero assists Ferrara’s 76th minute goal for Juventus (26th assist for Del Piero) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTZfQ3jHYtk&t=0m09s 106. 13th February 2000 match versus US Lecce: 0 assists for Zidane - Direct free-kick opportunity for Zidane’s 26th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeOEbY7k4Cg 107. 20th February 2000 match versus Venezia: 0 assists for Zidane - Penalty-kick opportunity for Del Piero’s 35th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtxRFP5q9aw&t=0m42s - Defender error for Inzaghi’s 79th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtxRFP5q9aw&t=67s - Esnaider assist for Inzaghi’s 90th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtxRFP5q9aw&t=1m27s - Another Esnaider assist for Inzaghi’s 90th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJh0dqRECOU&t=1m38s 108. 27th February 2000 match versus AS Roma: 0 assists for Zidane - Deflection for David’s 31st minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S52kd1-8pI&t=1m19s - Either a deflection, or a Birindelli assist for Inzaghi’s 46th minute goal for Juventus 109. 5th March 2000 match versus AS Bari: 0 assists for Zidane - Del Piero assists Conte’s 43rd minute goal for Juventus (27th assist for Del Piero) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APVhA5oYgDE&t=1m35s - Penalty-kick opportunity for Del Piero’s 54th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APVhA5oYgDE&t=2m35s 110. 12th March 2000 match versus Piacenza: 0 assists for Zidane - Del Piero assists Inzaghi’s 68th minute goal for Juventus (28th assist for Del Piero) - Del Piero assists Inzaghi’s 74th minute goal for Juventus (29th assist for Del Piero) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_giT_Cz79s&t=3m51s 111. 19th March 2000 match versus Torino: 0 assists for Zidane - I could not verify who causes Brambilla’s 23rd minute own-goal for Juventus (I am short on time, it can be done) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0ZfBHrdx3A&t=1m27s - Tacchinardi causes Lentini’s 67th minute own-goal for Juventus (not an OPTA assist) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0ZfBHrdx3A&t=3m05s - Penalty-kick opportunity for Del Piero’s 73rd minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0ZfBHrdx3A&t=3m45s 112. 24th March 2000 match versus AC Milan: 0 assists for Zidane - 0 goals for Juventus 113. 1st April 2000 match versus Lazio: 0 assists for Zidane - 0 goals for Juventus 114. 9th April 2000 match versus Bologna: 0 assists for Zidane (but not 100% sure) - I could not verify who assists Kovacevic’s 90th minute goal for Juventus (I think it is Pessotto) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeDZ0U92dbE&t=2m35s - Zidane causes Paganin’s 90th minute own-goal for Juventus (not an OPTA assist) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeDZ0U92dbE&t=3m02s 115. 22nd April 2000 match versus Fiorentina: 0 assists for Zidane - Penalty-kick opportunity for Del Piero’s 45th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_f1ayw-4us 116. 30th April 2000 match versus Hellas Verona: 0 assists for Zidane - 0 goals for Juventus 117. 7th May 2000 match versus AC Parma: 0 assists for Zidane - Pessotto assists Del Piero’s 60th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMDfnSHlJBI&t=2m10s 118. 14th May 2000 match versus Perugia: 0 assists for Zidane - 0 goals for Juventus Findings from the 1999/2000 season: 1) Zinedine Zidane had 14 OPTA criteria assists in the first four domestic seasons as the YouTube highlight already suggested. 2) I did not find any extra assists for Del Piero, and because there might have been a slight deflection for his potential assist versus Inter Milan, I decided to not count that one. It means that Del Piero is now 2 assists behind my original tally of 31 assists after four seasons. 3) I could not verify who assists Kovacevic’s goal versus Bologna, but I am quite sure it is not Zidane who provides it, but cannot be 100% sure. 4) If I use FBREF numbers for the total play-time, if we only look into his first four seasons, Zinedine Zidane played 9,590 minutes, had 14 OPTA criteria assists, and averaged 0.131 assists per 90 minutes. His final season at Juventus is his most productive domestic season in terms of OPTA criteria assists, so this is not the final tally. 5) Del Piero during the same period played 7.775 minutes, and had 29 assists during that time-frame, averaging 0.336 assists per 90 minutes. 6) I have one more season left to go, I do not think it is premature to say that I was probably correct in saying Zinedine Zidane was not truly elite in terms of OPTA criteria assists during his tenure at Juventus, if we limit the discussion to domestic league performance. Unless, of course, I was horribly wrong in my initial tally for Zidane's final season for Juventus, and it turns out he had like 20 OPTA criteria assists for the 2000/2001 season. Even then, I was not wrong to say it for his first four seasons.
2000/2001 Season 119. 30th September 2000 match versus Napoli: 2 assists for Zidane - Zidane assists Kovacevic’s 66th minute goal for Juventus (15th assist for Zidane) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axeYxkBYUyI&t=1m49s - Zidane assists Del Piero’s 74th minute goal for Juventus (16th assist for Zidane) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axeYxkBYUyI&t=2m10s 120. 15th October 2000 match versus AS Bari: 1 assist for Zidane - Zidane assists Kovacevic’s 3rd minute goal for Juventus (17th assist for Zidane) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kqp7LBA6FM&t=0m37s - Penalty-kick opportunity for Zidane’s 90th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kqp7LBA6FM&t=3m24s 121. 21st October 2000 match versus AC Milan: 0 assists for Zidane - Deflection for Trezeguet’s 67th minute goal for Juventus (I initially counted this as an assist for Zidane, but I think the defender’s header changed the trajectory of the ball) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCuRTRLss-U&t=3m20s - Trezeguet assists Conte’s 90th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpSDm4Cso9E&t=3m00s 122. 1st November 2000 match versus Udinese: 0 assists for Zidane - Penalty-kick opportunity for Del Piero’s 78th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3sdc4FSjmo&t=4m33s 123. 5th November 2000 match versus Reggina: 0 assists for Zidane - Deflection for Trezeguet’s 45th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C27yaEzUi0&t=1m03s - Tacchinardi assists Trezeguet’s 62nd minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C27yaEzUi0&t=90s 124. 11th November 2000 match versus Lazio: 0 assists for Zidane - Del Piero assists Tudor’s 22nd minute goal for Juventus (30th assist for Del Piero) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6o0BPiVrrA&t=46s 125. 19th November 2000 match versus Brescia Calcio: 0 assists for Zidane - 0 goals for Juventus 126. 26th November 2000 match versus Hellas Verona: 0 assists for Zidane - Birindelli assists Trezeguet’s 38th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lILsa3v40q4&t=1m30s - Direct free-kick opportunity for Zidane’s 74st minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lILsa3v40q4&t=2m31s 127. 3rd December 2000 match versus Inter Milan: 1 assist for Zidane - Zidane assists Trezeguet’s 7th minute goal for Juventus (18th assist for Zidane) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGsLfIG5gWE&t=0m23s - Deflection for Zidane’s 10th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGsLfIG5gWE&t=0m53s 128. 10th December 2000 match versus AC Parma: 0 assists for Zidane - Paramatti assists Ferrara’s 14th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hrS_Dn8MZc&t=1m23s 129. 17th December 2000 match versus US Lecce: 1 assist for Zidane - Zidane assists Inzaghi’s 12th minute goal for Juventus (19th assist for Zidane) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIPK7PZbBy8&t=0m24s - Pessotto assists Trezeguet’s 28th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIPK7PZbBy8&t=1m25s - Davids assists Kovacevic’s 87th minue goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIPK7PZbBy8&t=3m35s - Deflection for Zambrotta’s 90th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1q-YFLEGRc&t=1m48s 130. 22nd December 2000 match versus AS Roma: 0 assists for Zidane - 0 goals for Juventus 131. 6th January 2001 match versus Fiorentina: 0 assists for Zidane - Inzaghi assists Conte’s 33rd minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYap92igR1I&t=1m35s - Penalty-kick opportunity for Inzaghi’s 49th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYap92igR1I&t=3m03s - Paramatti assists Inzaghi’s 57th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYap92igR1I&t=3m41s 132. 14th January 2001 match versus Bologna: 1 assist for Zidane - Zidane assists Trezeguet’s 12th minute goal for Juventus (20th assist for Zidane) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePs-drwvOvY 133. 21st January 2001 match versus AC Perugia: 0 assists for Zidane - Davids assists Inzaghi’s 59th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4KZriGUQ1o&t=2m31s 134. 28th January 2001 match versus Vicenzia: 1 assist for Zidane - Deflection for Inzaghi’s 8th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqK-vdZUWw4&t=0m16s - Inzaghi assists Davids’ 23rd minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqK-vdZUWw4&t=1m13s - Deflection for Inzaghi’s 42nd minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqK-vdZUWw4&t=110s - Zidane assists Inzaghi’s 69th minute goal for Juventus (21st assist for Zidane) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqK-vdZUWw4&t=3m02s 135. 3rd February 2001 match versus Atlanta: 0 assists for Zidane - Zidane causes Paganin’s 73rd minute own-goal for Juventus (not an OPTA assist) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15-nzjHbKRk&t=0m41s 136. 11th February 2001 match versus Napoli: 2 assists for Zidane - Zidane assists Kovacevic’s 12th minute goal for Juventus (22nd assist for Zidane) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzcI1-NbaWg&t=0m30s - Deflection for Inzaghi’s 52nd minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzcI1-NbaWg&t=1m23s - Zidane assists Del Piero’s 86th minute goal for Juventus (23rd assist for Zidane) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzcI1-NbaWg&t=2m53s 137. 18th February 2001 match versus Bari: 0 assists for Zidane - Either a deflection, or a Tacchinardi assist for Del Piero’s 81st minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE67A-1QeNU 138. 25th February 2001 match versus AC Milan: 0 assists for Zidane - Del Piero assists Tudor’s 7th minute goal for Juventus (31st assist for Del Piero) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb-0rsrlVbc&t=0m20s - Tacchinardi assists Inzaghi’s 67th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb-0rsrlVbc&t=2m45s - Kovacevic assists Zidane’s 90th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb-0rsrlVbc&t=3m55s 139. 4th March 2001 match versus Udinese - Deflection for Zambrotta’s 38th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeMIzjfxOAc&t=1m10s - Del Piero assists Inzaghi’s 60th minute goal for Juventus (32nd assist for Del Piero) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeMIzjfxOAc&t=2m00s 140. 11th March 2001 match versus Reggina Calcio: 1 assist for Zidane - Zidane assists Tudor’s 31st minute goal for Juventus (24th assist for Zidane) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3q5EmbKyoM&t=0m30s 141. 18th March 2001 match versus Lazio: 1 assist for Zidane - Zidane assists Del Piero’s 59th minute goal for Juventus (25th assist for Zidane) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF-Wyc2Z75w&t=1m51s 142. 1st April 2001 match versus Brescia Calcio: 0 assists for Zidane - Either a deflection, or less likely, an assist from a Juventus player I cannot identify (definitely not Zidane though) for Zambrotta’s 30th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EeZDmN4ZNM&t=747s 143. 14th April 2001 match versus Inter Milan: 0 assists for Zidane - Deflection for Tacchinardi’s 51st minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YXG4gfHht8&t=0m07s - Del Piero assists Inzaghi’s 55th minute goal for Juventus (33rd assist for Del Piero) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YXG4gfHht8&t=0m48s - Either a deflection, or an Inzaghi assist for Del Piero’s 63rd minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YXG4gfHht8&t=1m23s 144. 22nd April 2001 match versus AC Parma: 0 assists for Zidane - 0 goals for Juventus 145. 29th April 2001 match versus Lecce: 0 assists for Zidane - Deflection for Tudor’s 40th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeXUogqvfmM&t=1m38s 146. 6th May 2001 match versus AS Roma: 1 assist for Zidane - Zidane assists Del Piero’s 4th minute goal for Juventus (26th assist for Zidane) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0xlsUHXtBg&t=0m25s - Inzaghi assists Zidane 6th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0xlsUHXtBg&t=0m31s 147. 11th May 2001 match versus Fiorentina: 0 assists for Zidane - Trezeguet assists Zidane’s 24th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhmWSuLLR1w&t=0m47s - Deflection for Tudor’s 28th minute goal for Juventus (Transfermarkt credits a corner-kick assist from Zidane, but I personally think there is a clear deflection that changes the trajectory of the corner-kick) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhmWSuLLR1w&t=0m55s - O’Neal assists Trezeguet’s 89th minute goal for Juventus 148. 20th May 2001 match versus Bologna: 1 assist for Zidane - Del Piero assists Trezeguet’s 27th minute goal for Juventus (34th assist for Del Piero) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY2-YOiwMFI&t=0m35s - Del Piero assists Tudor’s 45th minute goal for Juventus (35th assist for Del Piero) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY2-YOiwMFI&t=0m39s - Zambrotta assists Trezeguet’s 48th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY2-YOiwMFI&t=58s - Zidane assists Kovacevic’s 81st minute goal for Juventus (27th assist for Zidane) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY2-YOiwMFI&t=1m11s 149. 27th May 2001 match versus Perugia: 0 assists for Zidane - Either a deflection, or less likely, a Zambrotta assist for Trezeguet’s 55rd minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeNVE_o0gkQ&t=151s 150. 10th June 2001 match versus Vicenza: 0 assists for Zidane - Tudor assists Del Piero’s 37th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLoeO1H2VXM&t=0m46s - Del Piero assists Trezeguet’s 40th minute goal for Juventus (36th assist for Del Piero) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLoeO1H2VXM&t=1m13s - Zambrotta assists Trezeguet’s 51st minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLoeO1H2VXM&t=1m55s 151. 17th June 2001 match versus Bologna: 0 assists for Zidane - Tudor assists Trezeguet’s 6th minute goal for Juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV3ll21fG84&t=0m12s - Del Piero assists Tacchinardi’s 64th minute goal for Juventus (37th assist for Del Piero) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV3ll21fG84&t=1m00s Findings from the 1999/2000 season, and general thoughts now that I have completed my own personal tally: 1) I personally think Zinedine Zidane had 27 OPTA criteria assists from his 151 domestic league games for Juventus, averaging 0.196 assist per 90 minutes. This is the same tally as the YouTube highlight compilation I referenced earlier. However, depending on how you interpret the definition of OPTA assists for scenarios like deflections off-the-defender, and four goal assists I failed to verify, it is possible that Zidane had several more assists. 2) I did not find any extra assists for Del Piero, and because of the two potential assists that did not meet the required OPTA criteria (from my perspective) from the earlier seasons, his total assist tally from the same period is 37. This is about 0.346 assists per 90 minutes. 3) I personally felt like the profile of Zidane as a player, meant that he was never the type to get insane number of assists regardless of his personal form or team tactics, due to his tendency to focus on midfield control, lack of ground coverage without the ball to get into positions to assist, and not being the type to assist frequently via long-balls, or set-pieces. 4) I am most certain of the assist numbers for Zidane and Del Piero from this period, followed by Totti. The assist tally figures for players such as Baggio, Rui Costa, Recoba, Veron, and Mihajlovic definitely does need some second checking. However, if we assume the similar margins of error (for example, I think I was off by two assists for Del Piero), I think the gist of my argument remains fairly similar. Zinedine Zidane was never that prolific as an assist provider for Juventus, if we limit the conversation to domestic league settings. 5) Zinedine Zidane’s career, and his values and limitations as a player definitely does require further research. This is just a detail for a part of his career I felt was over-looked by some. I personally want to know the source behind Zidane’s 227 career assists, because that would reveal a lot of potential details I did not know from his earlier Ligue 1 days.
Someone already did the exercise of looking for Opta-criteria (not sure why the obsession over these) in Serie A. This is what they published.
I do not mind any criteria, but require the same metric for comparison reasons. OPTA-metric tallies are by far the easiest to access, so I use them the most. I personally dislike Transfermarkt tallies due to their inaccuracies, not due to their definition of what constitutes an assist. If Transfermarkt had accurate and consistent numbers for their wider definition of assists, I would not mind using those tallies. The Twitter post you linked is a discussion about Zinedine Zidane's entire history at Juventus across all competitions. The YouTube highlight video I posted earlier counted 48 assists for Juventus. What I checked for are strictly his domestic league performances, during his time at Juventus. I felt he was never as consistent in the week-to-week games, and that combined with his characteristics as a player, left behind memories of him being not as prolific in terms of assists for that specific context. These are just details I am establishing. We can move onto what they mean, and what extra contexts we require for a fuller understanding later.
🇫🇷Zidane for Juventus🇮🇹•212 Games🏟•31 Goals (0.15)⚽️•50 Assists (0.24)🎯•81 G/A (0.40)💫(Serie A only👇)•515 Chance screated (3.42)📊•744 Succ dribbles (4.9)🏅•122 Big chance screated (0.8)📈 pic.twitter.com/k8HP4Q4600— 𝙍𝙚𝙮𝙤 (@AhsoWahba57831) April 7, 2024
Highly doubt the statistic.. these are not big chances created and dribbles per modern standards. 0,8 big chances created while having 0,24 assists per game. That is improbable.
It’s actually more of a gap than that, because that 0.24 number is for all games with Juventus while the big chances created stat says it’s for Serie A only. And we know from the above that Zidane had only 0.179 assists per game for Juventus in Serie A, meaning this is purporting to be 0.8 big chances created with only 0.179 assists. Of course, if you go to the twitter post itself, you’ll see that when this twitter poster was asked in response to that post what the source for the stats was, he replied “myself.” So yeah, it’s just based on one random guy’s own assessment, and it’s a guy whose Twitter profile says “Zidane statistics and honours; better than messi?” These are not stats worth much of anything.
Also, handful of assists always come from non-big chances so the actual number of big chances scored per statistic would be closer to 0,10 per game. I approximate around 0,11. So apparently his teammates scored 0,11/0,80 big chances crrated by Zidane, which is around 14%. I dont know what is the modern day average for big chances scored, but the worst team in terms of big chances created this season in epl (Burnely) has scored 13 out of 49 big chances = 28% So we would have to believe that Zidane, for entire duration of his spell at Juventus, had played with teammate's so bad at finishing his created big chances, that Burnely 2024 looks like peak Barca to that Juve. Sure, right.
All statistics are compiled by dudes. I think the poster did an admirable job. No need to try overhard to discredit as expected from you two.
1997/98 :43 MATCHES12 GOALS (0.28)18 ASSISTS (0.42)30 G+A (0.70)Serie A only👇:109 CHANCES CREATED (3.4)131 SUCCESSFUL DRIBBLES (4.0)24 BIG CHANCES CREATED (0.7) pic.twitter.com/GEl1ZP2J64— 𝙍𝙚𝙮𝙤 (@AhsoWahba57831) April 7, 2024
Yes, but if they’re compiled by a random person and are a stat like dribbles or big chances created that isn’t entirely mechanical to tally, then it is likely comparing apples to oranges to compare the numbers compiled by the random person and numbers compiled by an official source (or even by another random person). The methodology of the two is likely to be inconsistent, making the numbers tallied by the random person essentially meaningless for purposes of any comparison. And that’s especially true where the numbers themselves do not look plausible on their face if using the methodology generally used for those stats (as @Sexy Beast pointed out with the BCC data, for instance). Not all data posted by people on the internet is useful.
I see no difference. Anything published by a stat website is an intern in front of a computer munching on doritos and is therefore subjective. No reason to doubt the numbers which make perfect sense. In the absence of anything published, it has at least some value. Unlike your dishonest insistence on dismissing all and anything on technicalities when it does not fit your narrative. So while you can raise the argument that certain stats may have the same level of certainty as from an official provider (you've discounted official providers entirely in the past when it didn't suit you), there is no genuine reason to COMPLETELY and UTTERLY dismiss them since they are the best piece of evidence available.
There really is good reason to dismiss it, if the point is to compare to the output of a different source that uses the same labels. It’s not even just about subjectivity in whether a given standard is met. The person is not even really using the same standard in the first place. For instance, OPTA defines a “big chance” as “a situation where a player should reasonably be expected to score, usually in a one-on-one scenario or from very close range when the ball has a clear path to goal and there is low to moderate pressure on the shooter.” Meanwhile, this Twitter poster said that his standard for a big chance created was “Any pass that leads to an easy goalscoring opportunity or the player isn’t marked.” These are obviously not the same standards. And there are obvious (and more subtle) material differences. For instance, most obviously, this guy’s standard would include passes to someone who isn’t marked, even if it doesn’t create an easy goalscoring opportunity. Moreover, “easy” and “should reasonably be expected to score” are really not the same thing, since the latter implies a substantially higher scoring probability than what people normally refer to as “easy” chances (reminder: People very often say someone missed an “easy” chance when the xG is like 0.1 or 0.2). So it’s just a completely different stat that the poster happens to have given the same label. Which obviously makes it not helpful to compare to. And that’s not even getting into the subjectivity and professionalism issues here. This is a random anonymous Zidane fan on Twitter. His process has no checks on his subjective views, and he is manifestly biased. Even if they *were* trying to compile the same stat (and they clearly are not), an official source has professional people doing this whose job it is to do it (and who could be fired for doing it wrong), and will have checks in place to ensure accuracy. None of that applies to a random anonymous person just saying stuff on Twitter. Heck, I could go on Twitter right now and anonymously post that I tallied things up and Xavi or Zidane had X number of big chances created in a given timeframe. It would not be something anyone should take seriously—even if I said I was applying OPTA’s criteria (which this guy is explicitly not)—because I have no credentials, am posting anonymously, and there’s no checks or potential consequences for me being wrong. It just has zero markers of reliability. Finally, I’d note that you saying “No reason to doubt the numbers which make perfect sense” is just odd when multiple posts have explained why they actually don’t make sense and would be a real anomaly. You think they make sense because you want them to be right. It’s similar to when you were convinced Zidane had more dribbles than Messi. And ultimately, after all the discussions we’ve had over the years (and all the times I’ve been proven right about data-related issues like this), I think you really should internalize the fact that not everything you find on the internet is right (or means what you think it means), and that it may be intellectually helpful to actually scrutinize and sense check things before you get yourself deep into relying on them. I try to help you with that, but you tend to get your back up when I do so, so it’d be better if you did some initial filtering in the first instance. For my part, I can promise you that if I saw something like this that had data that made one of my favorite players look good, I still wouldn’t post it, because the issues I raised above would make me pretty quickly conclude that it was garbage.
I think you have to come to terms that you are not the target audience of my posts. We are long past the point where we can expect any discussion in good faith and you have long proven that you sre ready to discount everything and anything based on any sort of technicality or argument you can conjure. An honest and interest party would have found a compilation project based on past footage at A MINIMUM to be a comendable and interesting project and would have sought ways to infer or seek whatever value possible from the secondary source. For example, it may have been at the very least interesting to observe broad statistical trends in Zidane's playing career. It would've possibly had at least SOME value. But like I said, you are not an interested party and after nearly 10 years of interactions with you... I have yet to truly parse or understand the psychology underlying your posting or make sense of what kind of personality you must have irl. This is not an attack and I am long past the point (as you most likely have observed) of deriving even a fleeting interest in engaging with you on any level. As I said, you are obviously not the target audience and any further words are wasted.
If the point is not to compare to the stats from other data sources but rather to look at trends in Zidane’s career while only using this guy’s tallies (i.e. to look just at this guy’s Zidane-specific data and compare different eras of his career to each other), then I think you’ll find that that in significant part falls outside my stated concerns with it. You see, right at the very beginning of my last post, I stated that there’s good reason to dismiss it “if the point is to compare to the output of a different source that uses the same labels.” The reason I wrote that caveat is precisely that it occurred to me that there could conceivably be other ways to use the information, in which at least some of the issues wouldn’t really matter. For instance, the fact that the Twitter poster’s criteria for BCC is different from the standard used for BCC in other existing data doesn’t really matter if all we’re doing is comparing how Zidane’s output changed over time (or in different competitions) in this Twitter user’s version of the stat. After all, in that case we’d be using it to compare apples to apples instead of apples to oranges There’d still be the issues of an anonymous twitter user’s stats not having markers of reliability, so I’d still have some concerns with the reliability of the data even if used in that way, but it wouldn’t be as obviously useless as it would be if used to compare to stats from other data sources. My general assumption, however, based on the prior discussion and the thread topic was that you were intending it to be used in a way that would be implicitly comparing the stats from this Twitter user to output from other data sources (i.e. in the context of the prior discussion, I assumed your point was basically “Yeah, Zidane didn’t have many assists in Serie A at Juventus, but he did have a high number of big chances created”). If that’s not the sort of thing you meant to be saying, then feel free to clarify what you were getting at. I already specifically caveated the concerns in my last post on the off chance that you were meaning to use it in a different way that is less obviously problematic.
Did that guy really watched all of Zidane's games for Juve in Serie A and kept track of stats? Really?
This is what he says. I do believe it. There may be inaccuracies and we may disagree with how he picked more subjective stats, but the trends in dribbling volume and key passes make a lot of sense to me. The dribbling tracks with opta numbers and eye test. And key passes as well. And the key passes is certainly an objective, reliable metric - irrespective of the actual value which may be questionable.
I cannot verify or know the exact criteria used, but the successful dribble numbers in particular seem to be not in concordance to what I personally watched. on X: "(SERIE A) Overall peak Zidane Overall : 1999/00 : • 32 MATCHES • 4 GOALS (0.13) • 4 ASSISTS (0.13) • 8 G+A (0.26) • 108 CHANCES CEATED (3.4) • 208 SUCCESSFUL DRIBBLES (6.5) • 38 BIG CHANCES CREATED (1.2) https://t.co/mBW5dY4vZR" / X (twitter.com) 208 successful dribbles, with 6.5 successful dribbles per match is an insane statistic, if we assume that OPTA criteria is being used. Since WhoScored tracked successful dribbles, literally nobody from the past 15 seasons managed to replicate those kind of monumental numbers in any of Europe's top four leagues. Most Successful Dribbles Completed In Europe's Top Four Leagues Since 2009/2010: 1) Lionel Messi: 186 successful dribbles (5.6 per match) in 2010/2011 La Liga matches 2) Lionel Messi: 185 successful dribbles (5.1 per match) in 2017/2018 La Liga matches 3) Adama Traore: 184 successful dribbles (5.0 per match) in 2019/2020 EPL matches 4) Lionel Messi: 182 successful dribbles (5.5 per match) in 2019/2020 La Liga matches 5) Eden Hazard: 181 successful dribbles (4.8 per match) in 2014/2015 EPL matches I have never ever seen a player whose main function is not dribbling, get these kind of numbers across the entire season. Without verifying for accuracy, I would probably say these numbers are closer in definition to the older, more loose tallying of dribbles where people like David Ginola, Thierry Henry were reported for having hundreds upon hundreds of dribbles in past seasons.
Have you considered that the game speed was slower back then, less passes were being produced, time on ball was longer, and the game less organized? Dribbling volumes are decreasing across the board for the last decade, and were likely higher in an era where passing volume was also lower: Secondly, I am not sure your numbers are entirely correct, Adamo Traore was averaging 6.1 successful dribbles / 90 according to Opta over the course of the last decade. What I can say, is the trends presented by the poster do make perfect sense, whether in accordance with known statistics, eye test, and simply what you would expect within the scope of the relationship of age and dribbling volume. I would encourage you to keep an open mind. Ultimately, these statistics are subjective - while there is an operative definition, its interpretation has a huge amount of heterogeneity, so I am not sure what the point of placing a huge amount of emphasis to the point of decimal places on a value that is not that precise after all.
This explanation doesn’t make sense when we realize that we do have OPTA dribbling stats from past eras, because we have World Cup data, and there weren’t massively more dribbles in Zidane’s era than there has been in the 2010-onwards time period that @Letmepost referred to. In fact, if anything it’s the opposite. For instance, in the 1998 and 2002 World Cups there were 1178 and 1009 dribbles respectively. Meanwhile, in the 2014 and 2018 World Cups, there were 1275 in 1198 dribbles (note: as I’ve written about, there were fewer dribbles in the 2022 World Cup, but you’re talking about numbers that would not be at all believable even before very recently). And, more generally, the amount of dribbles club teams have on average in league play in this era is perfectly consistent with the number of dribbles in the World Cup in Zidane’s era. There is no reason to believe that there was meaningfully more dribbling in Zidane’s era, and certainly no reason to believe there’d be so much more that the kinds of dribbling numbers you’re referring to would be remotely believable. And that’s not even getting into the fact that we actually have OPTA dribbling stats for Zidane himself in that era itself, and between WC 1998, WC 2002, and Euro 2000, Zidane averaged 3.18 dribbles per match (and more like 3.02 per 90 mins)—which is nowhere near the stats you’re citing. I don’t know why you persist in trying to come up with new ways to claim that Zidane dribbled more than Messi. It has literally been years now of you devising new (and old) ways to do it. The fact that you think these numbers “make perfect sense” based on your “eye test” and are simply “what you would expect” is bonkers. Stop trying to refashion this manifestly incorrect claim over and over. Anyways, as with the big chances created, that Twitter user is obviously not counting dribbles the same way as official data does. If you want to compare that Twitter user’s data to itself, and see how these numbers changed over the course of Zidane’s career, then that’s fine (subject to the caveat that the reliability of a random anonymous Twitter user still isn’t high). For instance, this guy’s info suggests Zidane’s overall dribbling volume in Serie A was extremely similar to his dribbling volume in his first year at Real Madrid, but then that volume went down a decent bit in his second year at RM. That is perhaps interesting information regarding trends in Zidane’s career. But comparing this Twitter user’s numbers to numbers in other sources is silly. He is obviously not counting dribbles (or big chances created) the same way.
A whole lot of yadda dadda from you as usual. It's obvious that the stats from the user coincide with 1999-2000 and his Euro 2000 performance - which per Opta was nearly 5 dribbles. In any case, it's obvious that WC numbers will be lower as players will have less touches than with their club teams. I literally provided large-sample 10-year numbers that showed dribbling numbers decreasing across the top 5 leagues, but you provide an extraneous competition: WC as proof to the contrary? What a joker you are. Stop being silly. 2002 WC Zidane played... one match with a quad tear - and you are providing a whole average? Such a silly man. This is Arjen Robben in 2004-05 who was dribbling at a higher rate than Messi: 5.7 successful dribbles per 90 minutes in the league, at a very high 75% success rate (per OPTA) I mean, on the one hand you dismiss small sample sizes, and on the other utilize them when it serves your argument? A reminder to all of how persistent you are in your deviant ways. Do you believe that Ronaldo was dribbling at 1.9 dribbles per 90 in 1998 as well?
No, it is not obvious at all that WC numbers will be lower. As I explained in my prior post, average number of dribbles per match at club level in this era have generally been consistent with average number of dribbles per match in the WC in this era (see my numbers on WC 2014 and WC 2018). There is simply no indication that there is meaningfully less dribbling in the era in which we have lots of dribbling stats than there was in the era Zidane played in. And by the way, if we go further back, the WC dribbling numbers do eventually become a lot higher than present day. So your hypothesis about there being more dribbling in the past (when the game was far less developed) does actually seem to be right. It just doesn’t seem right when we only go back as far as Zidane’s era. If you told me that some great player like 50 years ago had these kinds of dribbling numbers, it’d perhaps actually be believable. Furthermore, no, the user’s numbers do not merely “coincide with 1999-2000 and his Euro 2000 performance.” The user has graphics that purport to have dribble tallies for all of Zidane’s matches since 1996, as well as his entire Serie A career, and every individual season from 1996-1997 through 2002-2003. It purports to be quite comprehensive and is not at all limited to any specific timeframe (and is all implausibly high). The decrease in dribbling numbers you showed was over the timeframe we’re talking about (and therefore is not actually evidence of what you are claiming), nor was it in any way large enough that a similar type of decrease in the timeframes we’re actually talking about could’ve made the numbers you’re citing plausible. To use that as evidence of your argument about dribbling in Zidane’s era is to base your argument on nothing but speculation. Furthermore, the graphic you provided doesn’t really show what you think it does. That graphic was for dribble attempts, rather than successful dribbles, so it doesn’t actually directly tell us that the successful dribbles has gone down (because maybe dribbling success rate has gone up as dribble attempts has gone down). And, indeed, the same article you took that from has a graphic showing dribble success rate generally trending upwards in that same timeframe. For instance, the low-point there for dribble attempts in the graphic you provided was 2019-2020, with like almost exactly 35 a game. And the high point was 2013-2014, with about 41 a game. But the other graphic shows that the success rate in 2019-2020 was about 55%, while it was about 48% for 2013-2014. I’ll save you the math, but basically that tells us that the number of *successful* dribbles in the high-point and low-point in your graphic were essentially exactly the same! So not only is this *obviously* not evidence of the number of dribbles being higher in Zidane’s era, it’s not even really evidence of number of dribbles having meaningfully gone down in *any* era. Even your speculation is based on essentially nothing. Lol, I provided an average that included that game. It was one game out of those and barely affected the average. If you want the average without that, it’s 3.40 instead of 3.18. Not meaningfully different, and still nowhere near the numbers you’re citing. Are you actually of the view that Zidane dribbled about as much as Arjen Robben (or actually perhaps more, since the user’s numbers you cited include at least one season above that)? Really? Like, this is why it’s so hard to discuss things with you. You have a fundamentally warped view of certain players, such that you just end up believing implausible things because they are in keeping with your warped view. And that’s how we end up with you going an almost-decade-long campaign to incessantly declare that you’ve found evidence that Zidane dribbled more than Messi. As for small sample sizes, the only small sample size I referred to was Zidane’s own numbers over a relatively small number of games. I don’t see that as being the most important piece of evidence (precisely because it is not in a lot of matches), but it also wasn’t the primary point I made, hence why I added it as a “not to mention” aside. The fact that Zidane dribbled a lot less in a small sample doesn’t by itself prove I’m right, but it does somewhat suggest you’re likely wrong (because someone who gets around 5 or 6 dribbles a match is relatively unlikely to only have just over 3 dribbles per match in a small sample, especially when that small sample includes major career high points). Anyways, this is all silly. You are coming up with elaborate rationalizations to try to believe the facially implausible statistical tallies of a random anonymous person on the internet, when the obvious explanation is that the random anonymous person is just wrong (or at least not tallying things consistent with how the stat is otherwise tallied by professional organizations that the anonymous person is not associated with).