Re: Re: Re: You have to live with it... "For every player who goes abroad, it seems like two come back." - This is not quantifying our talent? 1) It could always become a serious problem. 2) If I ever had to choose which to care about, I would pick MLS over the National Team in a heartbeat. 3) Fine, but as I said, let's admit what it is. That MLS will never be more than what it is now.
I understand fully what you are talking about. Although I do agree that some younger guys will come through, i also believe that it will cause our league to stagnate if we are exporting our best guys after 2 or 3 years of them in the league. Most of the top leagues remain top leagues by keep MOST of their own best players and importing the top guys from other countries. If we are EXPORTING our best and importing guys at the ends of their careers, our league won't grow, which means that soccer won't be able to REALLY take off here. We have to look at the effect that actually WATCHING our stars play at home will have on kids who are kicking around a soccer ball here in the states.
Unless the league makes a ton of money off of it, and some of those players go overseas and play so well that MLS starts to look like a better and better league deserving of fan attention...
Tim Howard's transfer netted a couple million dollars. The real estate tax on a new stadium in Harrison is $29 million. Not that they haven't thought about it, I'm just saying the money that comes from transfers pales to the total money that goes through the league as a whole. And I don't remember which club Ronaldinho comes from before PSG and Barca. I actually have to look up whether or not he played in the Brazilian league at all. No player has ever been an ambassador for his previous club. I don't know why people imagine this stuff up.
Well , no one is arguing that MLS is one of the "top leagues" in the world and, therefore, it can't afford to import top flight players from around the globe to play here. But it is undeniable that MLS DOES, indeed, "keep MOST" of it's best players. Always has. IF, IF, IF. But it's not true. We are NOT exporting our best players. And we certainly are NOT importing aging European players. Oh, sure, a few will come this way. But, for the most part, MLS has chosen to go with younger, more affordable and, in just about all cases, better foreign talent, from Europe, occasionally from Africa or Asia and, most often, from CONCACAF and S. America.
Out of Contract If these players that are out of Contract at the end of the season such as Boca and Mathis have an opportunity to move abroad and they desire it they will leave. Mathis will qualify for work permit, so he can go to England. Boca can always get work in France, Holland, Germany, etc if he wants come January. I expect to see Mathis at a bottom level EPL side. A club will not see it as big of risk to sign them since they won't have to pay massive transfer fees. If they play well for their new clubs great. If not all the club lost was their wages. I do believe that MLS will be fine though if these players leave. If Mathis leaves, the Metrostars have Gavin and that other young fella who can seriously play.
Re: Out of Contract "that other young fella" Well, that says more than enough about the authority MLS commands.
Would Having the Best Players Going Abroad Kill the MLS? Ansewr is no. It shouldn't. If it does, MLS management stinks. You have to look from a player's perspective. Players are not slaves. Although some people like to think of them as object without any personal feelings, most players have ambitions, aspirations, and personal goals that they want to accomplish. From a management's perspective. Building loyalty and trust with employees is crucial. If not it will hurt the morale and productivity of current employees and recruitment of future employees and company's whole reputation. It's important for an organization to align the employee's goals with the company's goal. However, it needs be done with compromise or any other way that can benefit both sides. Not just one side alone. As far as customer satisfaction is concerned, companies try their best but NO companies that I know would limit their employee's freedom and destroy their employee's personal dreams and goals to satisfy their customers. They wouldn't exsit if they do. Any management with half a brain would tell you it doesn't pay to piss off your employees. I wouldn't doubt that Clint Mathis violent temptrum after his return from the world cup might have something to do with souring relationship with his employers.
Here we go again with this pointless argument. I knew those who are supposed to be fans would resort to the "please don't offend the players" card. You managed to answer the question but you didn't adequately explain your answer. I think no one can deny that the league at the end of the day ultimately loses when its players go abroad. It's not the fatal blow, certainly, but the league is none the better for the transfer of American talent.
I thought my answer was clear and would not require further explaining. Only retards would not understand. If you don't think my point is important, I am afraid I will have to completely ignore you in the future. You are not only extremely whiny, but extremely stupid as well. It's fair for MLS to make their players "serve" a number of years in MLS for the reasons mentioned above, and then they have to let them go for the reasons mentioned above. I would. It benefits the league greatly to lose SOME players. It allows the injection of youthful enthusiasm and energy into the league. It opens up spots for others to step up and therefore can boost the morale. It helps future recruitment of youth players if they know MLS would not step in the way of their dreasm. Also MLS can use some cash
The best players from almost EVERY league end up going somewhere else, right? Players generally filter up to Germany, Spain, Italy or England, and often via Holland or Portugal or Scotland or wherever. And people from Spain go to Italy or England, etc. etc, because players like new challenges. Being a "farm" league is not a terrible thing, because most leagues (and clubs) in the world are farms. One day, maybe, if the US market finally fully embraces football, we may just have a league with incredible pulling power. But until then, the best will leave and hopefully find success, then come back home and teach the next generation how to be even better. And you have to think about the numbers. If we take, say, 5 up-and-coming stars who are potential Euro targets, maybe 1 of them will really make it over there, and the rest will stay and be heroes for the fans at home. Every year the draft seems to get better, which is remarkable considering the timescale. We don't have much to worry about. Oh yeah, and I hope Carlos Ruiz leaves soon. Like, now.
Great. If you want unknown quantities to dominate the league, then watch MLS. If you want to watch the top American talent, move to Europe. That is essentially what is being said, that people's expectations of MLS should not be little more than that of a farm league.
Re: Hey! Unfortunately, it is not the fans of soccer that people who want to increase MLS's attendance are interested in. It is the people who ARE NOT fans of soccer or MLS becoming fans that will increase the league's numbers. And I would imagine that, despite his relatively low profile, more people are going to be coming to games for Landon Donovan than Brian Ching or Arturo Alvarez, or, more importantly, Freddy Adu than Dema Kovalenko or Thiago Martins.
remember when the hdc was built and people were all talking about how guys like cagullari and wynalda worked their ass off playing nats games on *#*#*#*#*#*# HS fields and not having their own locker rooms so the something like the hdc and nats games in beautiful stadiums could really happen. maybe this is the time when thses young players have to sacrifice so MLS can be a better league in the future. or maybe not. Who Knows?
No, you are right. noone IS arguing that MLS is one of the top leagues. What I am arguing and what you have taken out of the context of my argument is that in order to BECOME a top league and stay that way, a league must be able to successfully retain the majority of their own stars. Do you think that the EPL just STARTED as a top league? Spain? Italy? hell, Pele didn't even go over there to play. He chose to stay in Brazil. Would he do that in todays soccer climate????? Secondly, have you looked at the topic of this forum? the question is "would having the best players going abroad kill the MLS" ....... that is a question. My answer to that question was yes "If we are EXPORTING our best and importing guys at the ends of their careers, our league won't grow, which means that soccer won't be able to REALLY take off here." I didn't say that it ISSSSS happening or that it WOULD happen. I simply answer the question by saying yes, if it did happen, it would be bad for the league. Your answer spent more time attempting to pick apart my answer to the question than it did in actually answering the question that was posed, because from what i see, you NEVER answered it.
Once again, back to reality. Are you telling me that the English league was playing better soccer than the Brazilian leagues in 1950? 1960? ummmmmm, i don't think so. Hell, England wasn't playing better than URUGUAYAN leagues at the time. At that time, almost all of the Brazilian players were playing at Brazilian clubs, and the league must not have been too bad if they were playing in their own leagues and winning 3 out of 4 WC's at the same time. Sure Brazil has won a couple of times NOW too, but now, their guys are playing abroad. The reason that the English, Spanish and Italian leagues are "better" now is for exactly the reason i specified. Brazil does not keep its BEST players in their league. why? simple economics is the obvious answer. so now england, italy and spain are better because they have the best of argentina and brazil and africa. Brazil can continue to win though because football is already entrenched there after years of watching their best play in Brazil. The US doesn't have the same rich history of Brazil, and therefore for the growth of soccer, it would be best if OUR best hung around for the long term. I'm not saying that they SHOULD, because they have their own aspirations to deal with, but clearly it would be best for the sport here in the long term.
Would having the best players going abroad kill the MLS? If all of them left every year then yes. If 5 starters left while garnering transfer fees no. This rate (not exactly 5 but close to it) will allow for a positive revenue flow while not significantly changing the makeup of every MLS team. It will provide an open roster spot for young talent or a returning American star to move into. American sports fans have become accustom to significant yearly roster changes so 2 players leaving every 4 years won't be a big problem. As soon as MLS gets out of the red they will be able to be a force in the young transfer and player signing market. Moving into the respectable Dutch/Argentinean/Brazilian league mold, by developing the majority of the talent from America and a large percentage from Concacaf. This will lead to a major step-up in the quality of league play as well as the Nats. This is when the treasonous American-born euro snobs will jump on the MLS bandwagon. And I will welcome you and your money so the Fire can keep the next DMB and Boca while still buying the next Ralph and maybe Diego.
My view is that I wouldn't stop players going abroad but I would like to see us continue to keep most of our best players. Sometimes I do wish that some players abroad would come back while still in their prime and grow the league. I'm European and thats what I hope would happen. I'd like to see one of our older top goalies come back to be honest. I live in this country now and I put MLS first.
Yeah, but the thing is I don't care about the Euro snobs. Self-important as they are, they PALE in comparison to the number of people that watch the four major sports when they could be watching five. Anyways, Americans are used to roster changes but they are not used to seeing players like Jeter, Shaq or (insert another superstar here) move around like they're hot potatoes. Forget about the global transfer market; Americans don't get it and there's no way they're going to get it. There must be some mechanism for stability in MLS rosters. Will conformity to the global trends kill MLS? No. It just means MLS will never be great.
Not me. Between the development of the national team and the building of a quality league I would sacrifice a World Cup for the latter.
Id guess by and large MLS fans are MLS fans, not fans of particular players. A star player leaving just opens up space for a new player to step into the forefront. As long as the product on the field is good people will go back to see american soccer featuring their favorite teams.