World Football Historic Center (Dearman Blogspot)

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by Dearman, Aug 7, 2013.

  1. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #1426 carlito86, Aug 15, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
    @Dearman
    Why is CR 07/08 only SW for 1 half?


    from August to December 31st 2007
    13 PL goals+1 assist
    1170 minutes played (13 games)

    1gpg

    99 dribbles attempted in that first half(opta) up until 15th January 2008


    6.6 dribbles attempted per 90
    48% accuracy
    3.2 dribbles completed per 90

    https://www.dagbladet.no/sport/cristiano-dribler-mer-enn-zlatan/66428814
    @Tropeiro
    He was on fire here

    2nd half of the PL (January to may 2008)
    18 goals+6 wide assists
    1401 minutes played

    1.54 goals+assists per 90
    The data supports him being more productive in the second half

    But he was a real complete package in the first
    A livewire

    2007 calender year Ronaldo is one of his best ever versions

    I believe that end product within the context of that era will stand the test of time

    A 22/23 year old attacker with
    1gpg in Europe's elite league
    31 goals in 2747 minutes(30.5 games)
    3.2~dribbles completed per 90
    33.1 passes avg per match
    0.95 tackles per match
    3.86 crosses attempted per match
    https://www.premierleague.com/players/2522/Cristiano-Ronaldo/stats?co=1&se=16
    Countless yards covered with his ball carrying
    Goals and assists vs top 4
    A FK specialist,fantastic in the air even at that age,genuinely two footed

    @Tropeiro what kind of whoscored rating could you imagine for this
    It would have to be 8.50-8.60 in the same ball park as 2009/10 la liga

    That C.Ronaldo could literally do anything on a football pitch at a world class standard
     
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  2. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid

    Best ever Brazilian to do it in the champions league
     
  3. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Update end of 2019 - 2020 season.

    World All-Time Greatest Footballers

    As I ranked Messi as the best ever a few months ago, he has been a top players (1st, 2nd or 3rd) in the world in 11 seasons but Pele was in that position in only 8 years. Although Messi is not culturally recognized as the best ever in condition that he never win any world cup, I'm one of people who objects that idea as players in smaller nations that is not possible to win world cup should have a chance to be the greatest ever by his own circumstances.

    Positional Hall of Fame (Main Hall)

    Striker : Lewandowski has been moved up to 24th best striker ever
    Forward : Neymar has a little progress to 22nd although he has reached to top 20 international club plaers of all-time, L.A Suarez has collected to 17th
    Goalkeeper : Manuel Neuer is now at 7th best keeper ever or arguably has surpassed Zamora but I prefer have Nauer behind him.
    Manager : Diego Simeone is now deserved in top 50 but I have no time to update now. a new version of blogger make me trouble in a very slow running.

    The potential players to top 50 will have very great chance being included after the first half of next season

    AM : Kevin De Bruyne
    CM : Paul Pogba
     
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  4. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #1429 carlito86, Aug 29, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2020
    @Dearman
    2nd half la liga 2013/14
    Cristiano Ronaldo

    January-May 2014

    La liga Matchday 18
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/7...Spain-LaLiga-2013-2014-Real-Madrid-Celta-Vigo
    MOTM
    Rating:9.47


    La liga Matchday 19
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/738807/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2013-2014-Espanyol-Real-Madrid
    Rating:7.34

    Matchday 20
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/7...Spain-LaLiga-2013-2014-Real-Betis-Real-Madrid
    MOTM
    Rating;9.34

    Matchday 21
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/738715/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2013-2014-Real-Madrid-Granada
    MOTM
    Rating 8.80

    Matchday 22
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/7...-LaLiga-2013-2014-Athletic-Bilbao-Real-Madrid
    Rating:6.47

    Matchday 23 to Matchday 25 red card suspension(3 match ban)

    Matchday 26
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/7...-LaLiga-2013-2014-Atletico-Madrid-Real-Madrid
    Rating:8.23

    Matchday 27
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/738607/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2013-2014-Real-Madrid-Levante
    MOTM
    Rating:9.48

    Matchday 28
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/738687/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2013-2014-Malaga-Real-Madrid
    Rating:8.50

    Matchday 29
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/738771/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2013-2014-Real-Madrid-Barcelona
    Rating:8.06

    Matchday 30
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/7...n-LaLiga-2013-2014-Real-Madrid-Rayo-Vallecano
    Rating:8.62

    Matchday 31
    Muscle injury

    Matchday 32
    Muscle injury

    Matchday 33
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/738674/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2013-2014-Real-Madrid-Osasuna
    MOTM
    Rating:9.80

    Matchday 34
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/738754/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2013-2014-Real-Madrid-Valencia
    MOTM
    Rating:9.23

    Matchday 35
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/7...-LaLiga-2013-2014-Real-Valladolid-Real-Madrid
    Rating:6.45

    Matchday 36
    Muscle injury

    Matchday 37
    Muscle injury

    Average rating:
    8.45

    2014 was his best ever and most consistent year at league level
    And tbh (2008 aside)the ONLY year where he was legitimately and inarguably the undisputed best league performer on the planet

    His league stats from January till December 2014 are ridiculous

    He played 2384 minutes(26.4 league matches) in the 2014 calendar year and scored
    38 goals+13 assists

    2979.jpg
    https://www.whoscored.com/Graphics/2979/Show/WhoScoreds-Top-100
    Top 100 league performers in the 2014 calender year
    An ordinary world class rating for this is CRAZY

    2012/13
    First half:OW 0.5
    2nd half:SW 0.5

    2013/14 should be split into
    First half:OW 0.5
    2nd half:SW 0.5

    2014/15
    First half: phenomenon 0.5
    2nd half:OW 0.5

    I need to gather my thoughts(and sources)to address other discrepancies

    On how he is only rated as OW for the 2007/08 CL
    When he was MVP(best player,best forward,top scorer,fans man of the match in the champions league final)

    inStat ranks him by far the best performer in that 2008 final vs Chelsea

    One (great) goal
    12 completed dribbles
    Fouled 9 times
    3 key passes
    4 attempted tackles
    8 attempted crosses

    EgNpBwpWsAAJX3N.jpeg
    There aren't too many better champions league final performances than this

    Will come back to this later but again just browsing through it seems so many childhood heros of yours get boosted up on dubious grounds

    How is Eusebio only rated 0.1 greater than R9 at league level?????

    Eusebio with 10 league titles and 7× league top goalscorer is only 0.1 points greater than R9 with 1 league title and 3× domestic top goalscorer?

    Somewhere along the line you have inflated R9 beyond recognition (rating him SW in 2001/02 and 2003/04 for starters)



    Neymar only being OW for The 2019/20 CL?
    you've penalised him too heavily for that champions league final performance

    Romario did absolutely nothing against Italy in the 1994 WC final and in fact almost missed his penalty in the shootout
    You still rate him SW for what he did in the previous rounds and rightfully so

    Why The double standards with Neymar?

    Neymar was a SW performer in the 19/20 CL and before the revisionism kicks in was also widely considered to be on par with Robert lewandowski in last season's competition up until the final(there are a dozen sources for this)

    I will come back to this later but again you are reluctantly upgrading post 2006 world cup era players and when you do it is at a snail's pace

    Lastly
    Robert Lewandowski

    the third highest goalscorer in champions league history( behind 2 top 10 all timers)

    The highest scoring foreigner in bundesliga history(on track to finish 2nd all time behind Gerd Muller)

    Had to wait till he was 32 years old to rank 22nd on your top 50 list of greatest strikers:cautious:

    Its progress but at snail's pace
     
  5. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    https://xtrahistory.blogspot.com/2013/01/All-Time-World-XI.html

    For 2019 - 2020 top 3 players of the world has been updated, Lewandowski is unanimously first place. The 2nd 3rd is debatable between leading PSG players like Neymar and Mbappe, Nauer, Messi and De Bruyne.

    Neymar is out of focus as he played only 15 domestic games and his performance in UCL final is not enough to compensate.
    Mbappe also played only 18 games in Ligue I and overall rating in UCL knockout is not even one of the best of his team.

    Kevin De Bruyne is evaluated and qualified at 2nd. Fortunately, Messi appears in the list at 3rd place again despite failing in international football but his domestic performance is superb as usual. There is really no candidates deserved above him in score.
     
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  6. Titanlux

    Titanlux Member

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Nov 27, 2017
    For this season, it seems to me indisputable that the best player or, at least, the most decisive has been Lewandowski. As 2nd best, I had also thought of De Bruyne. Regarding Messi, although as long as the opposite is not proven, he is still the best player in the world, he has lost the ability to overcome the matches by himself; Although in some games (mainly before the pandemic) he resolved matches with individual plays as he was accustomed to, after the pandemic he did not seem to find his spark, rather the feeling was one of growing reluctance. For all this and for the collective failure of Barcelona, I would not include it in the top 3 and would suggest two names for that third step: Kimmich and Di María.
     
  7. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Kimmich is the second best player in UCL but he is rated by kicker in only international-class in Bundesliga. As domestic part is given higher weight, he isn't qualified.
    Di Maria played well only 2 games in knockout stage. He was given only 3 point from 10 in the first leg against Dortmund. Although I'm acknowledged he was superb in semi-final against Leipzig.
     
  8. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    Kicker rated Kimmich "world class" this summer in the category "Defensive midfield".
     
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  9. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Thanks for correction. I misunderstood about seasonal Name. Let reevaluate Kimmich.
     
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  10. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    Kimmich was ranked no. 1 in the DM section, followed by Goretzka no. 2 and Thiago no. 3 (all three of them rated was "world class").

    Also "world class" Neuer and Thomas Müller (offensive midfield). Forwards have not yet been published.

    If you scroll down this link you'll see the results so far:

    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangliste_des_deutschen_Fußballs
     
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  11. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #1436 carlito86, Sep 3, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2020
    project:
    double standards(continued)
    Screenshot_20200903-055757-1.jpg Screenshot_20200903-055805-1.jpg





    Lionel Messi 13/14
    28 la liga goals +11 assists in 2504 minutes
    1.40 goals+assists per 90
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/lionel-messi/leistungsdaten/spieler/28003/saison/2013/wettbewerb/WM


    Cristiano Ronaldo la liga 13/14
    31 la liga goals+11 assists in 2540 minutes
    1.48 goals+assists per 90
    https://www.transfermarkt.com/crist...aten/spieler/8198/saison/2013/wettbewerb/POWM

    Robert Lewandowski 19/20
    34 bundesliga goals+4 assists in 2761 minutes
    1.24 goals+assists per 90
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/rob...19&verein=&liga=&wettbewerb=&pos=&trainer_id=



    Non penalty goals

    Lionel Messi 13/14
    22 non penalty la liga goals +11 assists in 2504 minutes
    1.18 goals+ assists per 90

    Cristiano Ronaldo 13/14
    25 non penalty la liga goals+11 assists in 2540 minutes
    1.27 goals +assists per 90


    Robert lewandowski 19/20
    29 bundesliga goals+4 assists in 2761 minutes
    1.07 goals+assists per 90

    Lionel Messi 13/14 had more goals involvements in la liga than lewandowski

    Cristiano Ronaldo in la liga 13/14 had more goals+assists per 90 without penalties than Robert Lewandowski had with penalties


    Messi/Ronaldo 13/14 played in a higher calibre league than Robert Lewandowski 19/20

    Messi 13/14 scored better quality goals in la liga than lewandowski did in bundesliga 19/20



    Ronaldo 13/14 scored better quality goals in la liga than Robert Lewandowski 19/20 did in bundesliga





    Messi 13/14 acquired a higher whoscored la liga rating(8.34) than Robert Lewandowski 19/20 did in bundesliga(8.14)
    Ronaldo 13/14 acquired a higher whoscored rating in la liga(8.27) than Robert Lewandowski did in bundesliga(8.14)

    Not only did Messi in la liga 13/14 outscore lewandowski 19/20 in terms of goals+assists per 90 but he also had greater all round performances than lewandowski 19/20






    So to recap

    That's more goals involvements (with or without penalties)

    In a higher calibre league playing against higher quality opponents/defences

    Better quality goals

    Greater all round performances(certainly with Lionel Messi and very arguably with Cristiano Ronaldo)

    And ultimately a higher whoscored rating

    Only dearman could come to the conclusion that Robert lewandowski was SW in bundesliga and messi/Cristiano was only ordinary world class in la liga

    You did this with Neymar (who apparently never reached a SW level In la liga)
    You did this with arjen Robben (who apparently was never a SW player In bundesliga)
    Arjen Robben 2009/10 wasn't worse as any season of George best except 1967/68
    Neither statistically or technically


    Please understand this mate
    football did not die in 2006
    maybe you are watching a different game and think today's generation are talentless peasants
    And yesteryears legends are extraterrestrials
    It is not the case at all



    You did this with zlatan ibrahimovic
    Claiming he never reached a SW level in domestic football

    When In reality he reached a comparable level in domestic football to prime Marco van basten
    I'm referring here specifically to seasons 2008/09 and 2011/12 in Serie A
    Arrigo Saachi says this
    https://www.football-italia.net/node/1339

    Fabio Capello says this
    https://www.goal.com/en/news/10/ita...-will-become-stronger-than-van-basten-england

    So it's not just carlito86

    Capocannoniere 2008/09


    Capocannoniere 1991/92

    You compare

    Not only did ibrahimovic score higher quality goals in his best league season(08/09 vs 91/92)
    but was also patently a more prolific dribbler(pre 2009) than any Milan version of van basten
    Also a better passer/creator(certainly)


    Lucarelli( livorno legend)
    "We've all grown up with this myth of Van Basten and Ibrahimovic reminds me very much of him.

    I'm talking about his 'absolute value'
    (echoing what saachi says in the link above)

    Perhaps Van Basten was more clinical in front of goal, but for genius Ibra has no equal. He is more spectacular than Van Basten - the classic big beast with dazzling feet.

    "He is a phenomenon. The things he does has me scratching my head, wondering if he hasn't somehow been genetically modified."




    Ibrahimovic was technically something else
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TLrmfsxk-nw&t=42s



    You did this with xavi (who apparently was never SW in la liga even when he made a all time record 23 assists in a single league campaign from a CM position in 2008/09)


    But then predictably Zinedine Zidane in la liga 2005/06 on the wane and with very inconsistent/bad all round performances gets inflated and achieves a world class rating in la liga
    And supreme world class rating in la liga 2002/03 when he lost the MVP(Don balon) to
    Nihat Kahveci
    A relatively obscure player from Turkey


    Gosh!!!
     
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  12. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    OK, I have changed 3rd place from Messi to Kimmich. Although Messi and Neuer has a better profile domestically (For Neuer, World-Class in both half season while Kimmich was rated only international-class at first half and world-class for second half but average seasonal score is led by Neuer only 0.1 point), Kimmich is much better than both Messi and Neuer.
     
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  13. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Typical and predictable stuff how vDijk is suddenly not rated any more.

    The handicaps on full display.
     
  14. wm442433

    wm442433 Member

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    The Raynald DENOUEIX Effect!!
     
  15. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Toni Kroos and Thomas Muller

    Both are very controversial to have been deserved for top 50 players of all-time in AM and FW respectively as for their international achievement (Kroos with 5 UCL finals and 4 winners + 1 World Cup, T.Muller with 2 triple champion and 2 world-cup all stars team). As calculated score in full methodology. T.Muller's consistency in domestic football with many national level in the 2nd half 2010s including his poor performance in UEFA Euro 2012 and World Cup 2018) pull his score below top 50.

    Toni Kroos'score is currently behind Bonev at 0.2 point. Definitely Bonev is much more less successful but the methodology is designed based on performance against chance of international appearances.
     
  16. victorcalello38

    Feb 28, 2017
    Club:
    Montevideo Wanderers FC
    #1441 victorcalello38, Sep 15, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
  17. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #1442 carlito86, Sep 16, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
    Screenshot_20200916-110855-1.jpg

    http://xtraimmortal.blogspot.com/2013/04/Total-Skill.html?m=1
    This is outdated by at least 7 years

    Quantity
    CERZqaMWgAA_iMc.png

    Jump
    img-photo-le-saute-mouton-de-ronaldo-1317963539_x610_articles-141051.jpg



    Scored headers in a
    Fa cup final(2004)
    Copa del rey final(2011)
    European championship semi final (04 and 16)
    Champions league final(2008)
    Leaping headers against Roma 2008
    Diving headers against ajax 2019(one of his best ever goals IMO)

    His aerial game is unparalleled (even moreso at the top level)


    Hes been an elite aerial threat against all comers,all stages for literally the entire duration of his career


    But not good enough for top 10?
     
  18. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    The score is very equal between both. Anyway, Suarez is much better in international country part.
    Annual ranking is not represent all-time performance. It just likes a tip of iceberg.
     

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