Overhaul 9x100 Positional Ranking List http://xtraimmortal.blogspot.com/2014/02/The9x100.html Forward Mohammed Salah is a new comer at 71th. Milos Milutinovic has been transferred from winger list as he is mainly a forward who sometimes switch himself in wider area. Titus Ozon has been moved from Advanced midfielder list and no vacant position for him as he has no special highlight internationally. Karim Benzema is also taken from striker position.
Overhaul 9x100 Positional Ranking List http://xtraimmortal.blogspot.com/2014/02/The9x100.html Striker I remove Roberto Boninsegna and Marcelo Salas out of top 100 as both have too few great domestic seasons and the culminated performance in not very high. Robert Hamilton is also removed. He was a prolific scorer of Rangers and won five times Scottish league top scorer but the goal per team goals stats per seasonis just below 0.25. 3 Players replace them are ; Angelo Shiaivio was a main scorer of Bologna in its best era, winning two Mitropa Cup in early 1930s. Carlos Bianchi, was a true prolific scorer and tremendously influential in scoring to his team as he contributed 35 to 50 % of team goals. Domingo Tarasconi is top scorer of 1928 Olympic Games and won 5 Times Argentine league top scorer.
You also have Alonso in the 1984 National in second position in the left volante behind Bochini with a rating of 6,50. https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/primera-división-rankings-of-argentinean-football.1862688/page-5#post-38598220
OK Good information. Could you provide me the site show Bob Crompton's international match by match ?
Carlos Bianchi scored many goals in a third rate league. He never did something of note at an international setting for club or country. He would never been included by you if he was Austrian or Dutch (i.e. the countries you don't like or rate). How is he better than Chapuisat for instance?
I did not include any single trophy in evaluation. I gave score to level of performance and combined it. Anyway the more opportunity to play international tournaments, the more chance to have collected more score as well.
Bianchi scored 42 in 46 games in Argentine league so he proved himself in higher standard. Ligue I is not relatively high in standard but there is no one as exceptionally prolific as him in history of the league. I rate many Austrians and Dutches likes Stojaspal, Erich Hof, Rijvers, Cor Van De Hart in top 100 although they have no international recognition because of limitation of opportunity is applied. Chapuisat is rated in forward position not indicate he is rated lower than Bianchi.
I forget to explain Neil Franklin. I also not rated him in top 100 as he played in English top tier just 4 seasons. He rarely played against world-class forwards. As I check he played against Gunnar Nordahl and Jeff Mermans, England conceded goals for both of them although it could not know the conceding could be attributable to him.
1980 National seems high as well. https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/p...ntinean-football.1862688/page-5#post-38599661
He did this during a down period of the league and his national team. Why did he never replicate it at continental or international level? If that 70s league was so great, why is the average Elo rating of the national team so low? This is bullocks. They had international recognition and proved themselves against top class teams, outside the domestic borders. VdHart showed himself against the world champions for example. All those names did more against international opposition (club and country) than Bianchi managed to do. Of course brainless cheerleader Peru FC agrees with you.
Cor Van De Hart played 40 friendly matches and 4 world cup qualifying matches for Netherlands. In qualifying games, Netherlands lost Hungary 0 - 3 in his last match. The remaining are not impressive, lost Austria, beated Luxembourg twice times. He was also in the Lille team was defeated by Milan 0 - 5 in 1951 latin cup final. To be honest, he never prove himself in top standard competition.
I did not mention about standard of Argentine league in 70s was so high. Jeff Mermans scored against A grade European team likes England and Yugoslavia only 3 goals and he played in Belgian league where only one world class defender Van Brandt played during his time.
That's nonsense and misses the point. He was playing in the French league when those had a good generation of players. He reached the latin cup final, add to this victories with the (amateuristic) national team against e.g. the world champions and it is still a lot more than Bianchi managed to do outside his league. All of those players you mention did more against international top class opposition. You are a first class enemy with your ranking of Uruguay, Czechoslovakia and Portugal above Holland, and then putting Brazil down as #2 country.
That is absolutely nonsense and miss the basic point. Your sense is to deviate the topic of discussion ? I did not mention Bianchi is better than Cor Van De Hart but based on current evidence I can't find the one better than him in bottom group of top 100. International recognition is the most important but not everything. Schillachi is the Best example. The Latin cup provided only two rounds of competition when Lillie had a victory over Sporting Portugal narrowly and Lillie conceded 10 goals in 3 games. You can't say it was a club victory and moreover if it is victory, how do you know Cor Van De Hart should get international recognition ? Lillie scored 6 goals and conceded 4 goals in re-semi-final, how do you know Cor Van De Hart played well enough ? Well, Czechosloavkia is much better than Netherlands in Pre-70s. Netherlands is rated higher in World Cup but the overall performance in pre 70s is inferior to Czechoslovakia. Anyway Czechoslvakia includes performance of Czech republic and Slovakia after dissolution of country also (Best performance between them).
I just coincidentally found one of most valuable threads in Bigsoccer that I missed it regarding pre-war era players rating. https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/all-time-greatest-players-kicker-july-1941.2080788/ https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/o...-esp-1950s-1970s.2038892/page-3#post-35419053 As a result, I've made a big adjustment in my top 100 side-back ranking. Fritz Tarp was regarded as the best full-back in pre-war era alongside Nasazzi but I see he never participate in important international tournament. The journalist might evaluate him based on a few friendly games so I'm conserve my ranking of top 50 defenders ever not changed. In top 50 offensive lateral lists, I name Roberto Porta as a new comer as he is consistently one of the best south american players in his position over a decade according to msioux's thread. I remove Canhoteiro who spent very short peak period during the late 1950s and when I did not include M.Zagallo in top 100 wingers list based on what I watched in several games, Canhoteiro should not be in top 50 at least. Ferenc Sas as recommended by kicker as the best pre-war winger, he played in second division of Argentine league since his 28 years old. I still not have him in top 50 in main category. Kicker suggested Walter Nausch as the best continental left-half in pre-war era. I try to evaluate whether he is deserved to replace Uli Stielike but I have no information enough to verify Kicker perspective. As summarized in above comments, now I've named Baloncieri in top 50 offensive midfielders of all-time, downgrade Larbi Benbarek who had no international opportunity enough to honorable mention. According to Msioux's Series A old rating thread, I improve rating of Liedholm and his updated domestic rating get him in top 50 domestic performers ever and his ranking in top 50 AM is upgraded to 21th. In 9x100 positional ranking, Juan Evaristo (Side-Back), Ferenc Sas (Winger), Rene Petit (Playmaker), Reidar Kvammen (AM), Johann Studnicka (Forward) have been included in top 100. Luis Regueiro and Julio Libonatti might also be included but cannot find solution who should be removed now, At international legendary museum, Austria XI and Hungary XI are changed. Robert Sara is off for Josef Blum and remove Prohaska for tactical reason replaced by Nausch. Mezsoly replaces Gyula Lorant for Hungary.
Recently I remain work on reform the list of positional ranking. As I have read the thread established by Tom Steven regrading the 23 nominated Ballon'Dor players in the past and also the pantheon. Many pre-war legends are reevaluated. Top 50 Offensive Midfielders of All-Time In : Adolfo Baloncieri, Giovanni Ferrari, Gunnar Gren Out : Larbi Ben Barek (To honorable mention), Johnny Haynes and Nicolae Dobrin The players who are selected in is much more recognized internationally. I watch a match highlight between Sweden and USSR in the 1958 world cup. Gunnar Gren in his 38 years old was slow and his ball control technique is nothing special when he always tried to move perpendicularly to avoid opponents. I think the review of world cup all stars team which includes him seems not sensible. However, he was a top player in 1948 Olympic Games and Italian Series A rating shows him as the best player in his position 3 years consecutively. I'd not explain long about Ferrari who was a key player of both Juventus and Italy won a large number of trophies. Nicolae Dobrin is overrated by me for a long time due to my admiration on his technical skill. However, he is lack of international career highlight and played in lower standard league in Romania. Although Romanian players were not allowed to play aboard, I expect him to have more impact on his club that won only one league title at his peak. The club won second title at the year Dobrin was not rated in top 3 Romanian player of the year. He won 3 times Romanian player of the year with another 3 runner-up. I think it is too low if consider none of his candidates were one of the best Romanian players ever. Top 50 Central Midfielders of All-Time In : Karel Pesek-Kada Out : Uli Stielike 9x100 Positional Ranking List I'm more flexible in mathematical calculation with a new rule to give more weight in peak performance. It is a reform for the ranking below top 50 in main hall but I will explain only important changes. Goalkeeper More issues : As I check Series A rating that msioux75 is providing and also the raw data in another thread, I see Lorenzo Buffon is rarely rated in top 5 keeper of Series A. When he also played a few matches for Italy, he might be removed soon after the likes of Jan Oblak has more positive progressions in career. Side-Back I include most full-backs in pre-war and post-war era because I believe their ability are not qualified for center-back in nowadays football with some exceptions as well. Anyway, I am always open to edit for further discussion. Central Defender I'm interested in Bernd Bransch profile who won East German player of the year twice and he was a great sweeper.
@Dearman 33 goals+12 assists in 35 matches 17 MOTM awards in 33 starts Is only ordinary world class' Zidane is supreme world class for half of 2003/04 Which half was that? R9 is phenomenon for all of 97 domestic season(34 goals in 37 games) But Messi 09/10 is only supreme world class Did you check his stats(34 goals in 35 games)performances,ratings This is just a theory no doubt shared by many You have penalized both Messi and Cristiano for making the ridiculous look rather mundane There is nothing spectacular 1997 R9 did that they did not do in 2010 And that includes picking up the ball in their own half and going on rampaging dribbling runs past multiple players Scoring 1gpg across 30+ matches However there is plenty they did that he did not do R9 of inter is closer (in playmaking and building plays)but then his scoring dropped exponentially
It is great info of Cristiano Ronaldo's man of the match stats in domestic. Is there any source to show man of the match stats for Messi and CR7 in ever domestic and UCL seasons ? R9 in 1997 means (1996 - 1997 season) is known for his best season as he magnificently score goals after dribbling pass a number of players. I actively saw many games Messi played in 2009 - 2010 season that is also his best season he showed phenomenon dribbling. These similarities (Dribbling and Goals) may let you think they should rate in the same level. I see R9 is less depend on support from his teammates creates more chance to him than that of R9 which is a key different point.
Here I would like to develop asking for comments from anyone who is expert in Brazilian football for Chico whom I am considering including him in top 50 offensive laterals of all-time. Chico (Francisco Aramburu) : He is named in Brazil Football Hall of Fame. I see all names in Brazilian football hall of fame are big names and generally included in top 50 players ever in their own position (Not for only Vava, Taffarel and Zagallo in my list) so this cold imply some of his level. He and Danilo were the famous players in Vasco team won 1948 South American club championship but Chico score no goal in this tournament. Msioux75 rated him as the 2nd best winger of South America in the late 1940s and 3rd in the early 1950s. In mid-40s, he is rated in low ranks. (Note that en.wikipedia information is wrong that he is named as 15th Best Brazilian player ever). He is best player for Vasco in 1943 and 1953 (Shows he was outstanding in early 1940s as well). He scored all four goals in final round of 1950 World Cup. As his footage is rarely found, I source some information about his skills "Left wing with a lot of speed, brave and with great vision of the game and kicking hard with both feet"
however many players you saw ronaldo nazario dribble past he (as every other striker that ever played) had his fair share of easy finishes Most of these solo type goals took place in the 1996 segement of la liga In the 1997 portion(the business end)he started to score alot of opportunistic goals Everything you say here is applicable to both Cristiano ronaldo and lionel messi "A season where they magnificently beat multiple players to score goals" CR9 scored 7 solo goals in 33 starts That's a solo goal every 5 games Not only that but the freekicks 6 freekicks with a ratio to match the best of them CR was by all accounts the 2nd best player of 2009/10 Sometimes alternating between 1st and 2nd throughout the season 3rd is pick of the draw between arjen robben,cesc fabregas,Wesley sneijder and Xavi Hernandez But he had a bad disciplinary record and a tough time during his debut campaign (2 red cards and a 6 week injury lay off) Lionel Messi was tearing up arsenal in the champions league A top 4 side of the best league in Europe I watched it again the other day and i know many will disagree but for me that is the best i ever saw Messi play( at any level ) The goal against real zaragoza in la liga R9 could never do that Technically in terms of pure dribbling that was miles better than R9s solo vs compostela Messi 09/10 was also not just a highlight reel of solo goals Can you a imagine trequartista as roberto baggio with the end product of Marco van basten? That was messi He was a complete offensive player creating for himself and for others A devastating tier 1 athlete also I can accept all of these questionable designations but not in conjunction with your other ratings zidane being supreme world class for half of 2003/04!!! How? When? It makes sense now Alot of this how as of 2020 messi is still 0.1 points behind maradona How Franz beckenbaur is ahead of CR and it is unlikely Cristiano will match his longevity!!!!! We can discuss other ratings too Most notably how CR was only "ordinary world class" in 2006/07 Despite this being completely at odds with how he was viewed at that time by his peers and experts(not TV pundits) There is nothing ordinary about a 21 year old picking up all individual awards in England The highest rated league player by DBS calcio across Europe's top 5 leagues Made Champions league team of the season Scoring 3 open play goals+5 assists+3 pre assists from left midfield This is not 'ordinary' but rather extraordinary SAF went as far as to say he was(not potentially was)at the level of diego Maradona and the great Pele https://www.dagbladet.no/sport/sammenlikner-ronaldo-med-pel-og-maradona/66328757 Bobby Charlton even said I think he has been a better player than even people here realise." And people here ( Manchester or England) thought he was at the least the best in England or at most the best in the world Better than that is all time legend(and he went on in other places to compare him directly to tom Finney and stanley matthews who both feature pretty highly on your wingers list) https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2306026/Dazzling-Ronaldo-strides-among-the-games-legends.html https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2007/mar/10/newsstory.sport4?espv=1 Something is seriously off when a season of this magnitude is designated as ordinary world class And zidane 03/04 who argusbly wasnt even the best la liga player on his own team is inflated to the realms of supreme world class
In the big picture, I see that era as weak for Left Wingers in SA, with Loustau clearly the best, and arguably Sued better than him, too. It would be nice to see other sources rated high to Chico or whom are the close competition for the #50 place in your list.
I think it is great to have you provide deeper information in specific rating of top players in history. My rating is always tentative and will furtherly be developed. Please let me know all of my rating points you see it must be changed. However, I am not much reply on rating from whoscored as I understand it is only quantitatively calculated from % of each successful task (Dribbling, Tackling, ect) regardless of quality aspect. Am I correctly understand ? R9 at 1997 encountered easier opponents is agreeable but his footage agility and speed beat them very naturally and easily. However, R9 scored only 13 goals in the 1st half and note that he made scores only 8 games (10 games are no score is too many) so I will compromise to rate him in phenomenon-class in only 2nd half. Messi at 1st half scored only 14 goals as well and made scores only 7 games (10 Games he made no score). I would rate Messi in phenomenon for 2nd half as well. I rate Zidane in 1st half 2003 - 2004 season in supreme world-class. I remember he superbly performed in the entire year of 2003. Dbscalcio rated him only 6.20 in that season, I think it is underrated.
In his last 18 matches of la liga 2009/10 Cristiano ronaldo scored 18 goals+9 assists out of 54 team goals:50%direct involvement All the while leading in dribbles completed and Kp per 90 for his team https://www.transfermarkt.com/crist...09&verein=&liga=&wettbewerb=&pos=&trainer_id= He Carried Madrids attack in that second half of the campaign scoring goals out of literally nothing His hattrick on match day 36 keeping real madrid within 1 point of Barcelona with 2 games to play What really is the criteria for phenomenon class What appeals to you visually? Or players who score 1gpg as free roaming forwards Whilst being amongst the best creative players in the world Again i ask you to please refer to the Dbs calcio ratings The evidence overwhelmingly points towards them out on their own If there was one phenomenon in la liga 1996/97 There were 2 in la liga 2009/10 Xavi and sneijder 09/10 were in all likelhood not less important or productive as Zidane 03/04 Put the rose tinted glasses to one side Tbh i would've not picked on these classifications had i not seen zidane 2003/04 rated as supreme world class Read the overview of his performances on the 2003/04 thread Supreme world class would suggest his campaign was amongst the 20~ best individual seasons of the 21st century. Elite. There are at least 5 players this season alone who had better campaigns as Zidane 03/04 A season interrupted by a world wide pandemic
OK I have revised rating of CR7 and Messi in 2009 - 2010 season and also just add domestic performance of 1st half 2019 - 2020 season as well as Ronaldo and Zidane in aforementioned seasons. As a result, Messi has become the greatest ever. I think when performance of current season have been finished (I personally think it should be as the pandemic in Europe has been much better), CR7 is likely to surpass Beckenbauer as well. Messi at 1st place is controversial as he never fulfilled his potential in international country competition but this is based on current Methodology I've been developing. The calculation is based on criteria of percentage of pure performance in each level of competition (Domestic 45 %, Int Club 20 %, Int Country 35% but percentage could be varied depend on opportune factor) plus personal ability and bonus (trophy, Longevity, greatness). If expand percentage of int. country, Messi would not be greatest ever but the players from middle or small countries would also be very limited and most of top ranks would be players from only big nations. Players like George Best, M.Laudrup might be out of top 50.