How is Jonquet on this list but not someone like Van der Hart? Apart from his obvious ball-playing abilities, Van der Hart had the best defensive record in the French league with Lille OSC, was runners-up and reached the latin cup final with his team as one of the leaders. He was banned from playing with the national side. Jonquet was 4th in the league with the 6th best defensive record, eliminated in the first round in the cup (Lille OSC reached the round of 16). With the national team there were 13 goals against in 7 games, with two wins for France. Doesn't look as a particularly good year. Alas, he is dutch and then automatically the double handicap kicks in (even if World Soccer mentions a player, the retrospective punishment gets applied).
By the end of 1954 Jonquet had played 29 internationals. Van der Hart had played none, due to his ban. After returning to the Netherlands he played in a NT half-back line with Schapp and Klaassens. In one match Klaassens appears to have worn number 5 and van der Hart number 6. Wasn't van der Hart more of an all-round half-back like Hanappi? When was his peak?
I think you have missed KOHLMEYER, the best left defender of the world cup. He had a great season with Kaiserslautern in 1953 too..
Jonquet was the HERO of Highbury in 1951, in a match versus England. For you van der Hart was the best central defender of the year??? For me Happel was the best and behind him Pini and Jonquet, but i don't know the history of van der Hart's year. I'm waiting for your answer.
Reims were more of an attacking team and Lille more of a defensive team. Then it's true that Lille knew some difficulties sportively after Van Der Hart went back to the Netherlands in 1954/55 (aged 26). They got relegated in 1955-1956 (Vincent joined Reims at the end of this season, aged 25-26, transfert-fee record but they had huge debts), went back in the elite immediately, got relegated again in '60, alternated between D2 and D1 (to make it short) during a while, abandonned their professional status in '69... went back in D2 then D1, got relegated again and found stability only in the early 80s helped by political decisions, like regarding their status (Pierre Mauroy). Their last passage in D2 was in 1997-2000. The mining industry recession had played a role in '69. Lens were administratively relegated to the CFA (D3/ amateur league... D3 later became professional and semi- pro) and had to quit professional status as well (former Region Nord-Pas-De-Calais for the people who would not know about the specificity of this region). The sportive thus financial problems had started during the after-Van Der Hart we could say. Not a simple coincidence I think. But then it's an ensemble of things of course that also go beyond the pitch that definitively condemned them to not be able to play the first roles anymore during a long long while. Until the 2000s and club's presidendy by Michel Seydoux (Pathé/ Gaumont) who's the brother Jerôme (Pathé/ Gaumont, Danone, Cie du Mont-Blanc) was an important shareowner and administrator at OL.
Yes I can see that but I was talking about this specific year (1951). It doesn't look as a particularly strong year for Jonquet, 'subjectively' and from an objective point of view (6th best defensive record of his league, the wins with his teams, what the team did without him etc.). I'm not arguing he is more myth than someone with real substance, but this year is a little bit different.
Yes, I agree that it seems difficult to include him in '51. Although we still don't really have a list of players who could have been better than him for that year for the time being so there's still a chance that he was not worse than them. Or a chance that he was as good as them. Van Der Hart was highly rated in France for sure. Btw it seems that there was an after Hart at Lille (right after the title, too) but also, they were two times vice-champions before he arrived. Another name to look at for the 1951 year is Biosca of Barça. I mean, why not. A 23 years old player, like Van Der Hart. Tognon of Milan must have played CH too. Defensive enough it seems.
Liverpool without @VirgilvDijk at the back look a bit like Liverpool used to look at the back before they signed @VirgilvDijk.— Gary Lineker (@GaryLineker) December 18, 2019 If only he was Italian...
https://www.fcbarcelona.com/en/card/648250/gustau-biosca https://milanlegends.com/carabiniere-omero-tognon/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omero_Tognon https://www.acmilan.com/en/omero-tognon
For me: 2011 CB Thiago Silva/Nemanja Vidic/Mats Hummels SB Dani Alves 2012 CB Mats Hummels/Thiago Silva/Vincent Kompany/Sergio Ramos SB Dani Alves/Philipp Lahm 2013 CB Dante/Thiago Silva SB Philipp Lahm 2014 CB Diego Godín/Medhi Benatia SB Philipp Lahm/David Alaba 2015 CB Gerard Piqué/John Terry/Nicolás Otamendi/Leonardo Bonucci SB Branislav Ivanovic 2016 CB Diego Godín/José María Giménez/Toby Alderweireld/Jan Vertonghen/Leonardo Bonucci SB Marcelo 2017 CB Sergio Ramos/Leonardo Bonucci SB Marcelo 2018 CB Raphaël Varane/Kalidou Koulibaly/César Azpilicueta SB Marcelo/Joshua Kimmich 2019 CB Virgil van Dijk SB Trent Alexander-Arnold/Andy Robertson/Jordi Alba
What did Azpilicueta or Koulibaly in 2018 that Van Dijk did not? Literally nothing. He was already important for reaching the CL final, the second half of 2017-18 (before Allison his arrival), and of course the back end of 2018 was also strong. Doesn't make sense.
Yes agree that van Dijk is since 2018 (UEFA team of year, wich is subjective ofc and really has "strange" picks sometimes but he really exploded in 2018 with some goals scored in NT btw). But what I want to say is that your reflection regarding Alisson/ no Alisson makes me think about the CB pairing Marquinhos-Thiago Silva wich was very important in the 2019 Copa America win. A fact that is perhaps not stressed enough. Diminishing Alisson's importance in 2019 is not my intention at all though, ofc. Marquinhos is sometimes used as DM at PSG but when he pairs with T. Silva, it's one of the best central pairing in Europe I think. Then I heard about the remontada... and also about the critics on T. Silva who is, imo, underrated as hell. True that Silva was subject to some downs throughout his career but they're a very few compared to all his great performances. He's still excellent now but with age, we can fear an injury he would have a hard to time to recover from this time (he will be hard to replace in Paris and one day, it will have to be done). Marquinhos in 2019 really did not steal his Ballon d'or nomination imo. Before that he was already very good and well on the way of becoming the player he is right now but was not a starter for Brazil and did not play at the World Cup 2018 (1 appearance) just like others were preferred to him at the CB position at PSG (like D. Luiz), until 2017. But in 2019, he's in for sure (again, in spite of the fact of being used at times at midfield in club, where he is good to very good, sometimes average, when he is perfect at the back, his true position).
That is about the perception of the level of each of them, for what they did refers to everything they did in their overall performances. For the 2017-18 season I think Azpilicueta had a solid rock season (the previous one also had it) and with a very interesting dimension to play as a "pitcher" from midfield in Chelsea attacks, while Koulibaly was one of the best players of Serie A for me with and excellent organization and an impressive sense of timing. By the way, I think both have been undervalued in general terms. Although in the global I think that van Dijk's best performances were similar, I personally was not impressed on par during his half season with Southampton (at least from what I saw). From that season, I would not pass over Milan Skriniar. Obviously I must specify that I do not mean chronological years, but seasons.
Koulibaly I can maybe see a logical and coherent case for (notice however that his WhoScored rating, for example, is consistently ~0.35-0.45 lower), Azpilicueta not so much. Varane makes sense. Problem is that some of those things only become obvious and established over time. Not after one year in isolation. Only after a longer period you can see someone's influence (for multiple teams) or the 'big game scoring' for example. Umtiti was also really good in 2017-18 I think, at club level the best French defender and maybe the best league defender overall in the world. Before his injuries. It is damn hard to rate defenders, one of the hardest positions to properly assess.
If it is about seasons I get the first half of 2017-18 isn't of the desired standard, but the second half performances, influence on Liverpool and achievements more than makes up for it. His WhoScored/SofaScore rating over the entire season is comfortably higher than a Skriniar, Koulibaly, Varane or Azpilicueta. The ones with the best case of an equal or higher standard were Umtiti or Varane if you ask me. Umtiti was great in the league throughout (less so in Europe) resulting in high OPTA scores and Varane combines solid/decent CL performances with a good World Cup campaign. Would say though Varane is variable in his displays. Compare the recent Clasico (excellent) with the first PSG match (truly awful). Nevertheless, he has for 2017-18 a profile that others this year don't have and from that angle a particular case for the top category.
Yeah, I've never watch a single game of Southampton too (@Glavisted ). Oh yes perhaps one because I remember that Puel was the coach but it was before that and I can't remember if it was the PL or the Cup, against who... ... Van Dijk was on the pitch, I can visualize him in Saints shirt with his impressive stature... but that's it. Surely he was good already and spoken about, but that's it, he was not playing for Liverpool or else.
@Perú FC Marcelo over Alba in 2018 (2017/18)? I'm not so sure about that. Both calendar year and season.