Netherlands: Cillessen (6) - De Vrij (6), Vlaar (5), Martins (6) - De Jong (sp), Wijnaldum (6) - Blind (6), Sneijder (6), Kuyt (6) - van Persie (4), Robben (7) Subs: Verhaegh (5), Depay (6), Huntelaar (sp) Mexico: Ochoa (8) - Aguilar (6), Rodríguez (6), Márquez (6), Moreno (5), Layún (6) - Herrera (7), Salcido (6), Guardado (7) - Dos Santos (7), Peralta (5) Subs: Reyes (5), Aquino (4), Chicharito (sp)
Costa Rica: Navas (7) - Gamboa (5), Duarte (4), González (6), Umaña (6), Díaz (4) - Bolaños (5), Borges (6), Tejeda (5), Ruiz (5) - Campbell (6) subs: Cubero (4), Acosta (4), Brenes (6) Greece: Karnezis (5) - Maniatis (6), Torosidis (5), Manolas (6), Sokratis (6), Cholevas (6) - Lazaros (7), Salpingidis (5), Samaris (5), Karagounis (6) - Samaras (7) Subs: Mitroglou (5), Gekas (3), Katsouranis (6)
Yes, I know what you mean - I wouldn't want to make a habit of it. Looking back to the 1982 semi-final I doubt I'd reduce the mark of Bossis because he didn't score his penalty (let's say I might be giving him a definite 8) and as good as Littbarski's penalty was I doubt I'd upgrade his score either (let's say I'd have scored him 8.5 if allowed based on the 120 minutes). I still feel if I'm choosing between 6 or 7 for Neymar it could come into my thinking, but only because I'd be 'in between' grades otherwise.
Stat for me are the worst way to judge football players, is not basketball. The Americans want to import this new idot way to judging football players. Thanks, but we do not need this. Robben and James are the best and most important players for their teams in this world cup.
In the case of Gekas, his 3 wasn't due to PK fail. He miss a lot of easy chances that could give clasification to Greece
I don't understand that reasoning. Do you not think the penalty shootout is a key part of the game? For example, do you not think Julio Cesar deserves a higher score for stopping two penalties? And if that is true of a goalkeeper, why not of all players who make or miss a shot? I'm not saying that they should be judged significantly based on that one moment, but I would think it is something that should be considered, along with every other play the individual in question made or did not make throughout the game.
Hmm, I'm caught in between the views of you and msioux now mate! I'd tend to agree in that it's something they do that is still part of the game, and perhaps a very significant part, but in the end it is one kick compared to 120 minutes of play I suppose. It is a small part of how well they played. I'm not sure if msioux is saying he'd not consider it part of their performance (I'm not anyway) but that it is not enough to change a rating. I'm not sure if my position makes sense or not , but I'm saying in effect I'm less likely to change a rating if I have half marks (effectively marks out of 20) to allocate but moreso for a case like Neymar if I'm choosing between 6 and 7 outright. I think me and msioux do tend to think the goalies can affect their score more than outfield players (he mentioned Goycochea I think and I could think of Seaman in Euro 96). I think I'd be contradicting myself if I said I'd raise Julio Cesar's score by half a point though - I understood msioux's point about him too in that it wouldn't change things hugely, which you agree with, but I wouldn't omit to give it consideration - for a goalie it's maybe more like an extension of his performance overall rather than just one extra kick anyway I suppose. There is some debate about the legality of his dives/movement isn't there? But in all honesty I could easily give him a 7 instead of a 6 based on his penalty saves I'd say. I'd certainly understand that reasoning if somebody decides to do so anyway. In the end, even though these types of ratings are interesting and a good record like the FF ones on the everyfourthyear site or the ones Lucas Gomes posted, what counts is the score of the game and the shoot-out has a bigger influence on that in the end than the ratings are likely to show as they are meant to reflect overall performances. But then again someone can have a great game but miss an open goal in extra time or something and I suppose that is also a smaller factor in terms of rating performance than it is in terms of significance. Those who score winning goals often get good ratings because of it but that is understandable and if they haven't played great overall they would not likely get a 6/6 or a 9/10 I shouldn't think.
Sorry for saying and maybe my perspective is wrong but I don't see the logic for giving a 7 to Robben in this game and a 7 to Neymar vs Chile too. Alexis in the Brazil match is given an 8 by you, as well as James Rodriguez against Uruguay (but you admitted that you give Rodriguez one or two points bonus for his wonder-goal, despite 'average' touches in the other 89.5 minutes).
Alexis vs Brazil was nothing but his scoring = overall Neymar was more of a THREAT than him in first halfs with 4,5 clear chances If Neymar 7 then Alexis is 6.5 to 7 *max but again that's my opinion!
Good points. I personally give a player extra credit for a match changing action, but it's difficult to look at the tiebreaker in the same way as something done during the actual playing time. For example, Messi's goal against Iran was so clutch and so significant that in my view it had to bump him a couple of points (ie from a 5 to a 7) even though he hadn't done much all game. But what if you have a similar match end in a tiebreaker and Messi scores the last penalty to win it? It wouldn't be the same thing. It's tough to quantify, but as you say, if we were debating between a 5 and a 6, that might be the clincher to get him up to the 6. I can agree with that.
Catching up: Brazil: Julio Cesar 8; Dani Alves 5, T.Silva 6, David Luiz 5, Marcelo 6; Luis Gustavo 6, Fernandinho 6; Hulk 7, Oscar 4, Neymar 7; Fred 4 Chile: Bravo 7; Isla 6, Silva 6, Medel 7, Jara 6, Mena 7; Díaz 6, Vidal 7, Aranguiz; Sanchez 8, Vargas 6 Colombia: Ospina 7; Zuniga 7, Zapata 6, Yepes 7, Armero 6; Sánchez 6, Aguilar 6, James 8, Cuadrado 7; Gutierrez 6, Jackson Martínez 6 Uruguay: Muslera 6; Caceres 5, Godin 6, Giménez 6; Maxi Pereira 5, Gonzalez 5, Arévalo Rios 6, Rodríguez 7, Alvaro Pereira 6; Forlán 5, Cavani 7
Alexis was better as Neymar over the course of the complete match. I agree with you here. Neymar was probably better in the first half, despite Alexis his goal, but when factoring in 2nd half and extra time I think Alexis is comfortably ahead. In fact, Neymar was so invisible (and walking at the wrong positions IMO) that if not for the 1st half, a 5/10 wouldn't have been unfair. I think though Robben was as good as Alexis. Alexis did it against a harder opponent and better defence; that can be factored in. However, I did not see you taking that into account (maybe I'm wrong but I don't see it). Like you said, in the 1st half Robben was isolated but had still two or three good moment (incl. the move that should have been a PK). In the 2nd half he was key and a danger throughout. The dribbles but also the corner kicks and two or three good through-balls (one just missed by Sneijder). The doubters (incl. in Holland) asked whether Robben is as effective when the opponent parks the bus and plays defensive. He was. Reason I doubted your assessment and ratings is also because you have the line-ups wrong (Verhaegh wasn't as substitute but a starter). James Rodriguez is the most difficult one. Wonderful strike, and well-planned. In a must-win game and at an important moment (this was really 'clutch'). But as others said, maybe it was in fact his least impressive game apart from the strike. The 2nd goal was a nice bonus, but easy (as Alexis his goal). I'd give Rodriguez a similar rating as Alexis, and Robben too. Neymar below Robben, certainly.
Totally agree in the first part. In the 2nd part, i had to admit that i don't check the line-up before the ref. wistle, instead i did it in the course of the match, and considering the early injury of De Jong, i had that mistake in the starting XI, but i know Verhaegh played in the right flank and Kuyt in the left as wingbacks, right? About Robben's performance i could agree with your points, just that i feel he had better games in the group stage. So it was closer to a 7 than 8, imho. But can be argue than even not scoring, he won the PK and was the most dangerous dutch, esp. in the 2nd half. Also an interesting point that i hear, is that having van Persie and Sneijder irregular performances, could be said that Robben is carrying Netherlands this time. About James Rodríguez i also post about his not so impressive performance (but decent), but apart of his amazing 1st goal, in the 2nd, i apreciate his moving to find a right place to get the ball unmarked. See how James was moving in the box meanwhile Colombia move the ball from right to left and center and in the cross to Cuadrado. btw, i see some newspapers giving the best rating to Keylor Navas. That was another match which i doubted between a 7 and an 8. Maybe i factored more the greek fails than the Ticos virtues.
Holland Cillessen 6; Verhaegh 5, De Vrij 6, Vlaar 5, Blind 6, Kuyt 7; De Jong - (only on for a few minutes), Wijnaldum 6, Sneijder 6; van Persie 5, Robben 7 Subs: Martins Indi 6, Depay 6, Huntelaar 8 (given the time he was on) Mexico Ochoa 8; Aguilar 6, Rodríguez 6, Márquez 6, Moreno 5, Layún 6; Herrera 7, Salcido 6, Guardado 6; Dos Santos 7, Peralta 5
Was the Chile match better? I don't think so. Esp. when his team had to score he was a constant danger. Winning corner-kicks, incisive dribbles, even through-balls etc. With an opposing team parking the bus. The 'danger moves' had a higher frequency. I certainly don't think he was less dangerous as Alexis vs Brazil. Which danger did Alexis produce? I think it wasn't as much. That is my perception. http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/83...nternational-FIFA-World-Cup-2014-Brazil-Chile http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/83...tional-FIFA-World-Cup-2014-Netherlands-Mexico James Rodriguez is a different role, and position. No big disagreement about this.
http://placar.abril.com.br/materia/tabelao-da-copa-do-mundo-oitavas-de-final Revista Placar Round 16 Ratings
so funny .... De Bruyen blew up so many clear chances for Belgium from 1st half to near end 2nd half .. and got 7.5??? also a Di Maria doing not much (fruitful) beside his scoring at the end got 7.5? Neymar vs Chile was not that good (to his standard) but only got 6??? I wonder this rating refer to each other games or just POPPED UP from the sky? Yes ... I think so!
Di Maria registered a few records. I can see where they're coming from. Neymar a 6 is consistent with Sanchez receiving a 6.5 That gap is even a little bit mild IMO because there was a significant gap between both in the match (next to the lucky goal). Look at the stats, too http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/83...nternational-FIFA-World-Cup-2014-Brazil-Chile Robben (similar role) received a 6.5 too. His statistics are evidently superior to both Alexis and Neymar, but ofc a different level of opponent and different circumstance. http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/83...tional-FIFA-World-Cup-2014-Netherlands-Mexico
Costa Rica Navas 8; Gamboa 6, Duarte 5, González 7, Umaña 7, Díaz 5; Bolaños 5, Borges 6, Tejeda 5, Ruiz 7; Campbell 6 Greece Karnezis 5; Torosidis 6, Manolas 6, Sokratis 8, Holebas 7; Maniatis 6, Samaris 6, Karagounis 7; Lazaros 7, Salpingidis 5, Samaras 7
Ozil was playing hide and seek all game long and he's in the team. Incredible. Di Maria also makes it at 0.2 points distance