Yeah you had national team pool players playing with former indoor and college guys thrown in with with Galderisi, Caricola, El Pibe ,El Diablo and Jaime Moreno and many of them didn't even do anything to speak of at first. Hugo Sanchez from what I remember had trouble getting adjusted initially and left the next year and Roberto Donadoni after coming from AC Milan and then splitting duties playing in the Euro , seemed lost at times. He even told me in Italian when I met and spoke to him when I lived in Italy, he never found his groove in the MLS and never learned how to communicate with the players or even how to play with any of them because no one was technically gifted or skilled in either 96 or 97. There really is/was no comparison between MLS in 1996 and 2012.
Just to value-add on the table a little bit (for Supporters' Shield & '11 DeRo). The Golden Boot of '96, '01 & '07 had at least led their teams to the Supporters' Shield...
Saw on twitter that Wondo broke another scoring related record this weekend as well - he set the record for most goals + assists in a season, with 34. He broke Jason Kreis's record of 33 that Kreis set in 1999 (18 g, 13 a). And for those that want to argue that they played fewer games in 1999, Kreis played in 32 games for 2815 minutes in 1999, while Wondo played in 32 games this year for 2813 minutes
Yeah, but the defenses in the 34-game season were more tired than the 32-game defenses, which would of course account for Wondo's greater productivity relative to Kreis.
By the numbers: Chris Wondolowski vs. Roy Lassiter By Greg Lalas http://www.mlssoccer.com/blog/post/2012/10/29/numbers-chris-wondolowski-vs-roy-lassiter
In case you didn't see it, there's a very interesting article on Soccerbyives site, that puts Wondo's goal scoring into a different context. It shows the goals scored against playoff teams for the top scorers, and Wondo's stats are amazing. Meanwhile, the next best scorer against playoff teams was Keane, who only had 7 goals in 13 games. So Wondo had more than twice as many goals against playoff teams as the next closest guy, in about the same number of games played. So whether or not you believe that he played against tougher defenses than Lassiter, he certainly excelled against the best teams this year.
I hate to be the one continually doing this, because I think Wondo's season was amazing, but Ives' numbers aren't right (could be as simple as a typo, or could be a larger error). He played 3 games a piece against POR, CHV, COL and DAL, and one game a piece against TOR, CLB, PHI, MON and NER. Which equals 17 games against non-playoff teams. The two games Wondo missed this year were vs. LA and vs. KC. Which would leave 15 games against playoff teams. I'll double check the goal totals portion of this stat later, as well as the Lassiter comparisons, when I have more time.
Alright, checked it, the game count is a typo from Ives, the goals and assists are correct (15 goals and 3 assists in 15 games against playoff competition, 12 and 4 in 17 against the non-playoff teams). What's interesting is looking at the numbers a different way, Wondo did really well against the best teams and the worst teams, but didn't do as well against the middle third. Against the top 6 teams, he scored 8 goals in 6 games. Against the bottom 6 teams, he scored 11 goals in 12 games. Against the middle 7 teams, he scored 8 goals in 14 games. And for some players (cough, three-quarters of my team, cough), scoring a goal every other game against the middle class of the league would be an improvement
It may be a mistake, or even just a type by you....but 8/14 is better than every other game. Good correction and I'm tired and sick so I'll trust that you got it correct unless proven otherwise.
You must be tired and sick 8 goals in 6 games = 1.33 GPG 8 goals in 14 games = 0.57 GPG. 11 goals in 12 games = 0.91 GPG.
Tired or sick or otherwise, you guys are just working too hard . Trying to calculate Wondo's goal scoring rates against top, middle, and bottom teams and conclude something from it? Are we to conclude that Wondo is challenged by mid-table MLS team, like he's spending time on the field trying to decide if they're good or bad, and therefore his goal production goals down? For one, there are "top" teams with worse GA than middle and lower teams (like NY and LA), and there isn't that much variability in this anyway outside of a few outliers like KC and Toronto. LA allowed more goals than all but 2 teams in the Eastern conference. For another, team's form goes up and down during the season often depending on injuries, etc. And anyway there is just too much parity in MLS to make this meaningful. Applying it to a league like EPL might make more sense because there is a decided lack of parity. Only takeaway from me is that Wondo can score against any team - his style is about finding spots - being in the right place at the right time, and that can happen against any team. Of course any team that can starve the Quakes from possession and chances in the final 3rd will tend to have success, but that would apply to any team / attacker.
Irrelevant details for smart people. But I do agree with JazzyJ. I think his scoring record against the best teams is the only significant bit.
NoNot sure how far the Quakes will go or if they will get eliminated or not but shouldn't we include playoff goals (if any) in this thread considering those are the ones that count the most? Just curious....
He'd need 6 goals to break the combined record. Roy Lassiter 1996 - 27 Regular Season Goals 6 Post Season Goals (33) Carlos Ruiz 2002 - 24 Regular Season Goals 8 Post Season Goals (32)
This can be a thread by itself, on the most lethal striking partnerships in MLS, similar to the "Dwight Worke - Andy Cole" stuffs...
The first partnership that came to my mind was Alex Pineda Chacon and Diego Serna in '01, and combined they managed 34 goals. Other than that, Lassiter and Galderisi also combined for 34, Rammel and Diaz Arce in '96 combined for 37, and Preki and Takiwara combined for 34, all in '96. Lassiter and Moreno in '98 combined for 34, and Cobi Jones, Welton and Cienfuegos (I'm cheating, I know) combined for 49 goals in '98. Donovan and Buddle in '08 combined for 35. No other partnerships come close that I could find.
Dedicated Thread!! https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/threads/most-lethal-striking-partnerships-in-mls.1977398/
No, my point is not that you drew a conclusion, but that no one could not possibly, within reason, draw a conclusion from that kind of data, for all of the reasons I stated. So why bother, which is the idea behind the "working too hard" comment.
Sometimes, you investigate information from a new angle hoping to get a revelation, and the data delivers. Other times, it just turns out to be interesting and nothing more. And yet other times there's nothing to be learned from it. That doesn't mean you shouldn't look. After all, all of your caveats apply when looking at any sports statistic, so if I'm following your logic, why bother caring how many goals Wondo scored at all?