Will the Revs Ever Get a S.S.S?

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by MLSinHD, Dec 2, 2004.

  1. MLSinHD

    MLSinHD Member

    Apr 1, 2004
    Boston
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am one who loves Gillette Stadium. However when attending a MLS match, it just seems as if nobody is even there. For Patriots games, international soccer matches and concerts, the place rocks. The Revolution draw around 15,000 on average or around there. I think building something similar to what is happening out in Chicago, would be terrific for this franchise. The Revs are still my team and I will follow them no matter where they play, but I realize that Gillette Stadium is just too big for them. Unless fans come out in droves and start filling up the place in the next couple of years, I think going the way of a soccer-specific-stadium is the right thing to do. You'll have a wonderful atmosphere at games and you'll drive up demand for tickets. In this market, a soccer-specific-stadium would be awsome and would do quite well.
     
  2. BigFrank

    BigFrank New Member

    Apr 3, 1999
    Dublin, Ireland
    As long as the Krafts own the Patriots, Gillette Stadium and the Revolution it is highly unlikely that a soccer specific stadium will ever be built for the Revos in New England.

    One of the main attractions for the Krafts to the Revos is stadium dates during the NFL offseason.
     
  3. Real Ray

    Real Ray Member

    May 1, 2000
    Cincinnati, OH
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I saw this in the "Telegraph" today:
    Maybe in due time they may see the light. ;)
     
  4. Dr Jay

    Dr Jay BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 7, 1999
    Newton, MA USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    While the second statement is definitely true, I would temper the first to say "it is unlikely in the next few years that a SSS will be built".


    Kraft et al have thought about it.

    My opinion is several things have to happen before it gets done:

    1) The league as a whole needs to start turning a profit consistenly over several years.
    2) The teams that have their own SSS each need to be profitable as individual entites (proving the SSS model works)
    3) The Revs attendance needs to go up significantly (18 K to 20 K average) over a several year period (proving the fan base will fill a 25 K seater)


    Then it becomes a simple calculation....given all the stadium-related revenue that is variable (number of attendees, cost of tickets, food) versus the differential in the costs of opening Gillette versus the costs of opening the SSS plus its debt service....which stadium makes more money ? That is what the Krafts will do.
     
  5. The Magpie

    The Magpie Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Cambridge, MA
    I agree with points made by both Dr. Jay and BigFrank here: yes, there has been some thought given to the possibility of the Revs getting a Soccer specific stadium at some point, but the odds of it happening anytime soon (and by that I'd say within the next decade) are pretty slim. Quite simply, the Krafts need to see the value in commiting to such an endeavour, but the conditions aren't yet right to persuade them to make that leap.

    In the meantime, we'll just have to dream, while applauding Peter Wilt for his vision and efforts:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The Magpie
     
  6. cpwilson80

    cpwilson80 Member+

    Mar 20, 2001
    Boston
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    New wrinkle in the L4 deal: Kraft will build Liverpool a stadium, they can build one for the Revs :)
     
  7. The Magpie

    The Magpie Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Cambridge, MA
    Will the Krafts get 61,000 Revs fans every week to fill it?

    Different interests, different approaches to asset management, different underlying motivations.

    The Magpie
     
  8. Fiero20

    Fiero20 Member

    Aug 3, 2002
    Gillette Stadium
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    thats not fair. i designed a similar stadium for my Sport Facility Management class last semester. theives...
     
  9. cpwilson80

    cpwilson80 Member+

    Mar 20, 2001
    Boston
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dude, I'll put the ;) smile next time.
     
  10. The Magpie

    The Magpie Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Cambridge, MA
    Well, am I wrong? :)
     
  11. cpwilson80

    cpwilson80 Member+

    Mar 20, 2001
    Boston
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not at all, but it's fun playing in fantasy land from time to time :)
     
  12. Jeremy Goodwin

    Feb 16, 1999
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought they couldn't build one for the Revs because they had shelled out so much cash for the Pats stadium. Now they're going to shell out more cash to buy an equity interest and fund a new stadium for Liverpool.

    Guess we'd better be hoping they win a double soon, that way the Krafts will have more money to pour into yet another sports entertainment business that isn't the Revs :D
     
  13. soccertim

    soccertim Member

    Mar 29, 2001
    Mass
    I'm not doubting the accuracy of what you're saying, but this kind of surprises me. I have as many complaints about Gillette as the next guy, but I can't imagine how long it would take the differential in the costs of opening Gillette versus the costs of opening the SSS to cover the investment into a SSS. While the teams becoming profitible from moving into SSSs is significant, they're going from renting venues and sharing the revenue streams to going into their own stadium and controlling the revenue streams, not going from nig stadiums they own into smaller stadiums.
     
  14. MLSinHD

    MLSinHD Member

    Apr 1, 2004
    Boston
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good article by Michael Preston of Soccer365. Hopefully the Krafts will look into Michael's idea of building us a beaufiful S.S.S. I am actually excited about the possibility of the Krafts investing into Liverpool F.C. I think there could be some creative synergies forged and marketing possibilities between the two clubs.
     
  15. Jeremy Goodwin

    Feb 16, 1999
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hrm. I have to say, I don't care much for the current trend to have MLS teams as mirrors of some other team. I didn't like the Nike approach when the league started either, but I do think that our league and teams should forge their own identities, while staying in the traditional milleu to some degree.

    I don't see how cribbing players, names, logos, and fans from other teams is going to accomplish that goal.
     
  16. metoo

    metoo Member+

    Jun 17, 2002
    Massachusetts
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    While I agree with the notion that if it would make financial sense, the Krafts would build the Rev's a stadium, but when I think about it, I just don't see it happening. If you are thinking about building a stadium, you have to be thinking about the looong term. And what would you think the long term plans for the team are? If the team is shooting for average attendence in the high teens, with maybe 20 or 21 thousand for big games, then maybe it might make sense (I'm no stadium economics expert).

    But if they're hoping for eventually being in the mid 20's, with close to 30 thousand for big games, then the stadium is fine, and I disagree with Preston on one of his points. Doesn't the lower bowl seat 30 thousand? Unlike the old stadium, which was pretty much a continuous succession of rows from the bottom to the top, the way this stadium is set up, the lower bowl is pretty much a stadium to itself, with a fair ammount of separation from the lower to the upper bowls. If the lower bowl was mostly full, the atmosphere would be great.

    This is totally just idle speculation on my part, as I have no idea which model they are realistically planning for. But I do know that you can't be building stadiums based purely on current conditions, because if you make a mistake, be it too big or too small, it's not like you can just easily get a new one built, especially here in Massachusetts.
     
  17. nsamsarmy

    nsamsarmy New Member

    Apr 1, 2004
    Atlanta, GA
    Liverpool, really? I never would have guessed... Didn't the Revs head coach play for Man United? I think he should have talked them out of that deal....

    (for those who haven't caught on, that was full of sarcasm)
     
  18. JMMUSA8

    JMMUSA8 New Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Webster
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's good that you added that last comment cause a bunch of us would have jumped on you for that (including myself). Please next time add the neccessary [sarcasm]blah blah blah[/sarcasm] tags, else it will result in a yellow card.
     
  19. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Never leaving Gillette

    This "lower bowl" theory does not translate. It has often been said that the empty side would only be opened if the Revs were starting to draw enough fans to make it worthwhile to open the concession stands, etc. on that side, but the reality is that they open the upper sections on the sunny side before they open the lower bowl.

    Suppose this as a best-case scenario: The price reduction is a huge hit, and combined with a couple of off-season signings and the Revs are a consistently good team in the regular season, among the top 3 for the whole year. The team is also consistent enough that it is a given that they will have a better than even shot at winning every time they play at home. Given this, attendance raises to around 20,000 average, with some of the "big" games getting up near 30,000 (like it used to be in the late 20th Century). What would Gillette Stadium look like? Would the Revs:

    A) Open sections in the lower level, extending beyond the end zones around to the far sideline

    B) Open up seats on the second deck in the corners, next to the red club seats

    If they did A or B, how would they price the tickets? Seems hardly fair to Cat 1 season ticket holders to let people buy the identical seat across the way for cheaper than a ST price, but it would be a major andministrative hassle to organize the extra seating sections on the fly.
    C) Keep the "capacity" at 23,000 (or whatever it is) and tell people who show up above that number with cash in hand wanting to buy tickets to "go Dick Chaney themselves"

    I can't see them building a new stadium either. The overall thought to the idea I floated a while ago (building a modular Crew-style stadium around the Pats practice field in back) was reasonably popular with those concerned about intimacy and atmosphere, but the sponsors, who are a lot more important than any of us would want, hated the idea. They would not want to be associated with the Revs if they were not perceived to be "major league." Gillette Stadium is major league, a small stadium like the one above would not be. End of story.

    Tom
     
  20. Jeremy Goodwin

    Feb 16, 1999
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Never leaving Gillette

    Well, certainly not one built around a practice field out back of a major league stadium.

    Isn't that essentially what happened with the "NFL Europe" Barcelona Dragons the season before they folded? They were sent to the kiddie table out behind the real stadium.

    New stadium somewhere in the Boston area for the Revs = Major League
    except: New stadium behind Gillette built out of a practice field = Kiddie Table.
     
  21. BigFrank

    BigFrank New Member

    Apr 3, 1999
    Dublin, Ireland
    There are no yellow cards issued in this forum.

    Controversial threads simply disappear.

    :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
     
  22. metoo

    metoo Member+

    Jun 17, 2002
    Massachusetts
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Re: Never leaving Gillette

    Sorry, but I don't follow what you're saying at all. When you say "the reality is", is this something you've heard the team say, or is it just your speculation based on what you've observed? I can't be sure, but I had thought that the "lower bowl theory" was actually mentioned as part of the plan when they designed the stadium. I'm not certain of that, but the idea just rings a faint, muffled bell in a distant corner of my brain, which could be something else entirely. Why is it you think they'd stick new crowds a mile away from the field when there are empty seats next to the field? Not that I think that everything the team does makes sense, but to me that would seem to be beyond the pale.

    And I also am not sure what you're saying in the last paragraph that I quoted above. What do you mean by seats in the middle across the field from the season ticket holders being cheaper than what the season ticket holders paid? I would think they'd charge Cat 1 prices for the seats opposite the current Cat 1 seats.

    Not trying to attack you, just curious where the info came from. And I think that the team possibly needing to expand current seating by the end of next season is almost beyond a best case scenario. In my mind, "my" theory (as you say, I don't think I'm the only one who's floated it) would be a little longer term.
     
  23. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OK, hopefully this will be a little more clear... Not that we have much to go on, since you can count the number of crowds exceeding the "capacity" on one hand since Gillette opened, but the speculation was how they would handle larger than normal crowds for a "regular" game. (somehow, I suspect this is a moot point, but what the hell, let's speculate anyway).

    Supppose it's late May and the Revs are doing well, battling with Sir Freddy and DCU for first place. The combination of the Freddy Circus, the defending champs' first visit and the circumstances of the game, not to mention the arrival of the warm weather means a crowd of about 28,000 (mostly walk-ups)shows up. What do the Revs do?

    1) Turn paying customers away, even though there are literally thousands of empty seats that won't be used, and risking pissing off customers to the point that they will never come back?

    2) Devise on the fly, a "contingency" ticketing plan, where they designate certain normally unused sections as category 1/2/3, depending on the location and designation of the opposite side?

    3) Say the hell with it and charge people GA Category 3 seat prices and let them sit wherever they want in the lower bowl (that's where the midfiled line ticket at half-price comes into play)?

    4) Instead of opening up the lower level on the shady side, open the second deck in the corners on the sunny side? My memory might be suspect, but I do recall them changing the layout after the 2002 season so they'd sell the second-level seats in the corners next to the red club seats.

    Given the overall way the Revs have operated in the past, especially when it comes to handling game-day operations on the fly, I can't see them doing #2, even though it would make sense to have this figured out ahead of time if they ever needed it.

    So the two questions are: What do you think the Revs will do if this situation ever comes to pass, and what do you think they should do in this situation?

    Tom
     
  24. The Magpie

    The Magpie Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Cambridge, MA
    The following are some of the most recent images of the MSV Arena, the new ground for MSV Duisburg in Germany, which I think would be a great base model if the Revs were ever to get their own stadium (I know, I know... I'm beyond dreaming on that point). It's a bit big at 31,000 seats, but I'm a big fan of the look and design:

    Artist's rendering

    http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwe...au/fotos/wedaustadion_duisburg/modell/100.jpg

    Recent construction photos

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     

Share This Page