Will the Old Firm go to England?

Discussion in 'Scotland' started by CdnBhoy67 redded, Dec 2, 2004.

  1. CdnBhoy67 redded

    CdnBhoy67 redded Red Card

    Dec 2, 2004
    For me i hope so, the SPL has become so run down the big two need to get away to better themselves. While this won't happen tomorrow it should happen in 5 - 7 years, then the Scottish league can regroup and be competitive again.Celtic would do better of the two based on previous results against English clubs in Europe.
  2. uber_coupon

    uber_coupon New Member

    Sep 16, 2004
    Copland Rear, Ibrox
    What a lot of sh1te and not at all unbiased eh?
  3. Gordon EF

    Gordon EF Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 15, 2004
    The simple answer is.......NO.

    The English don't want the OF at all and UEFA won't let it happen, where can they possibley go from there?
  4. Holyjoe

    Holyjoe Member

    Jul 15, 2003
    Whilst it's not indicative of how the teams would fare, he is correct to say that Celtic have the better record against English teams in European competition.

    02/03: Liverpool 1-1, 2-0
    02/03: Blackpool 1-0, 2-0
    97/98: Liverpool 0-0, 2-2
    69/70: Leeds Utd 1-0, 2-1
    83/84: Notts Forest 0-0, 1-2
    65/66: Liverpool 1-0, 0-2

    W: 6
    D: 4
    L: 2

    03/04: Man Utd 0-1, 0-3
    92/93: Leeds Utd 2-1, 2-1
    68/69: Newcastle 0-0, 0-2
    67/68: Leeds Utd 0-0, 0-2
    62/63: Tottenham 2-5, 2-3
    60/61: Wolves 2-0, 1-1

    W: 3
    D: 3
    L: 6
  5. uber_coupon

    uber_coupon New Member

    Sep 16, 2004
    Copland Rear, Ibrox
    I was not doubting his claim about Celtic's European history, just that its a lot of sh1te to use that as a comparison for success in a "League" format spread over a season. Would you like to compare both clubs histories in achieving league success?

    as i stated.....

  6. CdnBhoy67 redded

    CdnBhoy67 redded Red Card

    Dec 2, 2004
    what you european record been lately pal? no to freaking good has it?
    Celtic is far superior to Rangers and we both know it. while we have been taking on some of the biggest clubs in europe the last few seasons you have been playing the minnows and still getting beat (HA HA HA). Come on the Hoops.
  7. CdnBhoy67 redded

    CdnBhoy67 redded Red Card

    Dec 2, 2004

    i beg to differ, i think a good number of premiership teams would love Celtic playing them in the league. the only ones not wanting celtic in there would be the small clubs that would lose the spot in the EPL. while i can't blame them for that Celtic could start in the Championship league and work their way up and that way earn it. It's not like the english league does't have another countries side playing in their leagues, Swamsea for one and Cardiff,
    so why should they exclude the Scots?
  8. aloisius

    aloisius Member

    Jul 5, 2003
    But the welsh sides are not allowed to qualify for Europe through the English leagues. If Celtic and Rangers were willing to give up on a chance to play in Europe, than it could be doable
  9. uber_coupon

    uber_coupon New Member

    Sep 16, 2004
    Copland Rear, Ibrox
    Really? What were the scores on the last 2 previous Old Firm encounters again?

    Who's top of the league again?

    Who's the only team in Scotland thats on for the treble?

    You re only as good as your last match, in which case Sellik are on a par with, erm, dundee.

    nuff said.

    top of the league, joy of joys!
  10. CdnBhoy67 redded

    CdnBhoy67 redded Red Card

    Dec 2, 2004

    Lets keep the fact that the officials helped you win both games aside for the moment and your players faked injury (Banging head incident), your lot a bunch of cheats. who will win the League......Celtic.....Scottish Cup.......Celtic & which Scottish Side actually made the CL proper..........
    Celtic..............like you said nuff said.
  11. CdnBhoy67 redded

    CdnBhoy67 redded Red Card

    Dec 2, 2004
    Your only good as your last match? you lost to a small Dutch team, Rangers European record continues.
  12. Burkies Ginger Mop

    Burkies Ginger Mop New Member

    May 20, 2004
    Get a grip! I’m sick of reading all the paranoid pish that you lot spout! Go and get your heed examined!
  13. CdnBhoy67 redded

    CdnBhoy67 redded Red Card

    Dec 2, 2004
    Did your play dive when Thompson went near him? Of course he did the video
    even shows there was no contact, no headbutt what so ever,which proves Rangers are a cheating dirty outfit , a label they have been living with for years and earned.
  14. Burkies Ginger Mop

    Burkies Ginger Mop New Member

    May 20, 2004
    Yawn. Boring. I suppose Celtic are innocent then. It seems they are always innocent according to you sad pathetic victims.
  15. Scottish_Morton

    Jul 7, 2003
    Irvine, Scotland
    Rangers were the better team in the last 2 Old Firm's. Lovenkrands is a cheating bastard but what was the score when it happened?

    Uber Coupon, You better watch what you're saying, if Celtic are only as good as their last european match they're as good as Barcelona! Does that mean Dundee are as good as Barca :S
  16. Gordon EF

    Gordon EF Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 15, 2004
    Well that's certainly not what they've been saying. Almost all the EPL sides have said they don't care about having the OF in the league.

    Also, clubs are allowed to play in foreign leagues only on historical basis, like Cardiff in England and Berwick in Scotland.

    Won't happen.
  17. uber_coupon

    uber_coupon New Member

    Sep 16, 2004
    Copland Rear, Ibrox
    Surely you're not serious, right? If you're on the wind up, i'll let it pass but if you're making genuine accusations regarding the scottish refereeing fraternity, then i'm afraid you'll have to elaborate on your subtle claims.

    By that i assume you are refering to the Lovenkrands and Thomson clash during our league victory at Ibrox. Thomson may well have made contact with Lovenkrands, but there was no excuse for Lovenkrands behaviour when falling to the ground like a sack of totties - he's a disgrace and IMO he is not worthy to don the light blue jersey again.

    During the previous two encounters between Rangers and Celtic, there was some disgraceful underhand tactics coming from both the blue and green camps. Now I ask you, was this because of Managerial tactics to promote vicious/foul play or simply because certain players may well have been caught up by the hype of participating in one of the world's most famous derbies? We'll never really know.

    With regards to the league game, Novo should have walked for his challenge on Pearson, Camara for his attack on Rae and Lennon for his innumerable fouls that he committed during the game. Kenny Clarke was very leniant on both sides - your team were capable of having the match abandoned. To put quite simply, in Glaswegian vernacular, O'Neill and his teamloast thi heid.

    Well that remains to be seen, but to be quite honest I think Celtic may well end this season tropheyless and Pennyless, with fans once again questioning the integrity of the board in the face of the decaying and the declining stature of a once great football club.

    Rangers for the league and perhaps a team from outside the old firm to clench the scottish cup. I fancy Hearts to take it, they impressed me at Ibrox last week and proved a much more formidable foe than Celtic.

    Indeed they did, and i hope you make the most of their time participating in said competition, because I'm fairly certain that Celtic wont be there next year.

    Thats right, I did. You're learning
  18. uber_coupon

    uber_coupon New Member

    Sep 16, 2004
    Copland Rear, Ibrox
    The "small Dutch team" that you refer to are currently sitting second from top in their domestic league, on the back of a 4-1 victory against Rotterdam's most famous Football Club. They are also currently on an 11 game unbeaten run - I think to come away from that game getting beat only 1-0 is an achievement in itself.

    It was a game that saw the only two clubs of form (Rangers 16 games unbeaten, Alkmaar 10 games) from a group of undesirable opposition except for Auxerre.
  19. nyrmetros

    nyrmetros Member

    Feb 7, 2004
    So yea, what would happen to the SPL if the Old Firm plays in the EPL? Would the SPL simply implode, or could the SPL survive, and even thrive with a balanced competition that isn't stacked from the opening game?
  20. CdnBhoy67 redded

    CdnBhoy67 redded Red Card

    Dec 2, 2004

    Celtic im sure will go on and win the league and cup double,Rangers have not
    proven they can contend,not that they were ever gonna finish below 2nd anyway.Even if Rangers somehow make the CL next season they will go out in Qualifying or the first round proper their recent track record proves this.
    Celtic pennyless? Were not even in the debt trouble you lot are in, in fact your in a league of you own for the worst debt in Scottish football. The Celtic support know the board are how you would say penny pinchers, alright they are down right cheap, but im positive new player will be brought it next month to ensure the title will stay at Parkhead. kenny Clarke did not have a great game, i thought Hugh Dallas would have been better, and thats
    the last thing i thought i'd ever say. Celtic don't play vicious football,hard
    maybe but not vicious. as for Lovenkrands no contact was made ,he should be suspended not only by the SPL, but UEFA and FIFA (they always take fair play). The referee's in Scotland have always favored Rangers and the SFA
    as well,not banning Lovenkrands has me convinced of that. I would like
    officials from outside the UK to do the Glasgow Derby,Collina of Italy is
    capable of handling this king of all derbies.
  21. uber_coupon

    uber_coupon New Member

    Sep 16, 2004
    Copland Rear, Ibrox
    Time will tell, but it shant be easy for either contender.

    Rangers have not proven they can contend? Need i refer you to the last two previous old firm encounters again?

    I feel that the CSKA Moskow game too early in the season for us. However, I am under no illusions about the level at which Rangers are at. Its a long way to go yet until Rangers, as well as Celtic, get to an even keel with the rest of the European Club Elite.

    Of course Rangers have serious debts to resolve and I have no grounds for argument or disagreement with you on that one there. It is improving though and it is expected to be reduced to a "manageable" level of around the $6,000,000 mark - which is a reasonably normal figure amongst many of Europe's premier clubs.

    hmmmm, interesting that you would say. . . .

    and then you follow it up with this little beaut. . . .

    It gives me the inclination to ask you: How can you be so sure?

    Either way, more than one Celtic player would have walked that day. End of.

    I agree, and it wouldn't do Celtic any harm to learn to keep their composure and discipline in the face of an Old Firm defeat. Big Eck suffered a drubbing at the hands of Celtic last season, yet not once do I recall him bringing into question the refereeing decisions that where made against his men, nor chastise others for his own failings against, which was then, a much stronger Celtic side.

    Well you already know how i feel about Lovenkrands. But as for Thompson, one would have thought that he would have learned by now how to conduct himself in these games i.e. not allow himself to be drawn into "petty"scrapes. Granted, contact may not have been made - certainly not one that merited Lovenkrands "theatrics" - however Thommo did provocatively introduce his head in an aggressive manner which indicated he wished to do more than merely exchange pleasantries with Lovenkrands. Forced to make a decision, the referee went by his interpretation of events as it unfolded. I am in no doubt though that in retrospect, Clarke knew he made the wrong decision.

    Now if you're really concerned about fitting the appropriate convictions for certain footballing misdemeanours, then perhaps you'll want to look at the events where contact between players were made. Now as I said, Novo should have walked for his stamp on Pearson. With that in mind, will you be willing to conclude that Camara should have also walked for his attack on Rae as well as Lennon for his persistent fouling?

    Are you serious? Dont be blinded by the traditional Celtic culture of Paranoia and misplaced blame please, it doesn't do you any favours and is seriously lacking in any credibility.

    You seem to have conveniently forgot about the alleged headbutting incident between Juanjo and Lennon earlier this season. Do you remember the outcome there?

    When you look at all things evenly, without being selective when summarising your investigations and findings, you'll see that the SFA dish out the punishments fairly (and sometimes unfairly) amongst all the Clubs. Celtic fans usually fail to realise this because they are busy pointing the finger elsewhere and almost always lack the integrity to admit fault from their own quarters. This down-trodden, oppressed attitude that many of the Celtic support associate with themself has as much place in today's game as sectarianism has in modern society and I for one am sick fed up with both.

    I too think Collina could handle the job, but I don't see the possibility of international referees such as him officiating at foreign club level in the forseeable future.

    So for the time being, it would appear that you'll have to make do with the alleged "Rangers loving" Scottish refereeing fraternity.
  22. -cman-

    -cman- New Member

    Apr 2, 2001
    Clinton, Iowa
    Bah! This argument has been done to death. It's a great idea for the fans but a complete non-starter as far as UEFA and the English FA, and Premiership are concerned so fuggedaboutit, it's a fugezi.
  23. Gordon EF

    Gordon EF Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 15, 2004
    The SPL would be much better. Different team would have a chance of winning the league, we'd get proper title races.

    Our European coefficient would likely go down though, but who cares.
  24. Bobbybhoy

    Bobbybhoy New Member

    Apr 29, 2003
    never will happen,but if it did you would see in a few years the same thing over ,maybe the Edinburgh clubs or Aberdeen .Football is football and in every league in Europe there is hierarchy so someone will fill the top two spots and stay there.
  25. Gordon EF

    Gordon EF Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 15, 2004
    I agree that it will never happen. I doubt you would. The Edinburgh clubs and Aberdeen are certainly the 'biggest' clubs outside the OF but when was the last time they filled spots 2, 3 and 4??? I don't think they have sice the last time a non OF team won the league.

    Just look at the variety of teams who have come 3rd in the past 10 years.

    Of course there would be a hierarchy, what we wouldn't have is a monopoly.

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