why must the irish always be associated with fighting

Fighting for a good reason!



"The Irish soldiers of the heroic San Patricio Battalion, martyrs, who gave their lives for the cause of Mexico"

There is a movie called "One's man Hero" (w/ Tom Berenger) which tells the true tale of the Saint Patrick Battalion and how they were persecuted in the US Army due to their Catholic faith.

This is one of the reasons why I always root for Ireland in the World Cups.

http://homepage.tinet.ie/~edrice/stampclub/mexico.htm

 

Yeah, fair enough, I was just stirring really.

Although - and I know I'm nitpicking - he said he 'travels on his Irish passport', which indicates that he may hold more than one. So if he holds a Canadian passport as well, doesn't that make him Canadian 'full stop'!?

 

The fact that he holds an Irish passport means that the ROI considers him a citizen. Nothing else matters after that. He could even hold a Rangers membership card and he's still Irish.

Just stirring it a bit too.

 

The cup is stirred.

It seems like this very discussion comes up once every two years!

Anyhow I'll just pip in here with a bit of my own take on the whole thing. Being an American of a set of very obvious ethnic extractions (you don't give a boy the handle of Kelly Patrick and not expect him to have some awareness of his roots), I'll just say that I think that there's a connotation that gets missed when many Americans (Canadians, Australians, etc.) say they're Irish. Obviously none of these folks, myself included, where born in Ireland and I think for the most part are not claiming to be so, but it is acknowledging where our personal history leads. To not acknowledge that past and connection seems to only point towards being ashamed of that very past, which I and most others are not. Sure I'm American and proud of it, but I didn't come to be out of thin air; there's a past and that past leads to (some unusually depressing parts of) Ireland (and I must confess Scotland).

I think a great many of Yanks of Irish extraction don't know much of what that history means and very few of taken it upon themselves to find out, thinking it's enough to order Guinness/Harp at the bar and get drunk on St. Patricks Day. It's a class of people who wouldn't know Athlone from their *#*#*#*#*#*#*# (and there's a good joke in there). I can understand how this grates.

"A people without knowledge of their past are like a tree without roots"
-Marcus Garvey

 

just a few comments if i may.
I'm glad the "fightin Irish" is gone. I always hated it. I mean it's not something to be proud of.
I'm sure its a term given to us by a non-irish person. its also a racist slur. or at least sounds like one.

The nationality thing has been brought up before here. nationality is a state of mind .
America is such a vast country with so many different cultures that it is only to be expected that people need to associate themselves with a motherland. we all need identity. and the person who says that if you were born in canada then that makes you canadian is talking rubbish.
Ok it gives you the option of being Canadian but it doesn't make you canadian.
It all depends on the way you were brought up. your values. your culture. your knowledge of the history ,the music etc . some second generation irish have not been brought up in irish culture therefore they may not see themselves as irish. (but they are still entitled to an irish passport)
other second /third and greater generation irish people have been brought up in the irish culture and have a great love and knowledge of ireland therefore they can rightly claim to be irish.

its funny the way that the term Irish-American or American-Irish has become accepted and widely used. but you never hear anyone describing themselves as Irish-English or English-Irish.
its always the city that is referred to i.e. London-Irish.
why did "has personal problem" get a yellow card ?

 

Notre Dame Fighting Frenchmen

I think they should be called the Fighting Frenchmen, because the school has a French name.
Last time I checked my French dictionary, it means our lady.

 

"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."

-Albert Einstein.

One of my favourite quotes.

Why did Has Personal Problem get a yellow card?

 

Yeah. Absolutely agree, hear, hear.

'Cos he's a fucking moron.
(And was trolling on other boards also.)

 

yea, in fairness,

HPP has done a lot of good. he does rule!!

where are the trolling comments? i'd like to read them and laugh.........

 

Because he's not Irish.

 

he SO is Irish. he's working in Dublin. He's as Irish as me, or anyone born and reared on the Island!

Ha!

I'm in favour of starting a petition to have the yellow card rescinded.....

 

IMO Irish culture exists only in Ireland, Irish culture in a foreign land is just a group of people looking at another land far away through rose tinted glasses claiming to be something they aren't. People in Ireland are different from Americans, different accent, different culture, different sense of humor, different way of life.

 

IMO that's a very narrow view of Irish culture. It overlooks the contribution of the diaspora to the homeland and also to the various "host" societies in which emigrants and their offspring have taken root. It's also a "snapshot" view, failing to take into account cultural development in the lead-up to the present time, and thus the development of "the accent", sense of homour and way of life.

In short, and especially so in today's "global village", one does not have to be born or reared in a certain place to claim fealty to it. To be Irish is therefore so much more than being born on the auld sod. James Connolly? Born in Edinburgh. Eamon de Valera? New York. James Larkin? Liverpool. And don't even start me on the many and great who in the sporting arena have worn the green with distinction over the years...

PP
(MA Irish Studies, PhD in the contribution of the diaspora to contemporary Irish culture. And a London Irish smart-arse to boot. )

 

laugh @ hpp...

ha ha. i think that would be more of a referral to the 'motherland' but then again, that would kinda lean towards the Russians as well.

Hpp, did you see the MUFC debacle last night? poor werent we? if memory serves me right, youre a man u fan....if i'm wrong then leave the slagging out! i wont be able to take it.

Christ, i was very disappointed with the game. Crap defence, forwards marked out of the game, the sight of Howard flapping at the ball from a corner brought back not so fond memories of Schmeichel, Barthez et al....great save though, even if he was yards off his line, ala Paul Robinson V Birmingham.

The most alarming thing about the game was the sorry lineup from the bench.....

Butt, Djembas, Fortune, Fletcher, Carroll? Hardly strength in depth would you say......

bring back F365!!

 

Only in your mind, HPP. It's a well-accepted academic term to describe the "socio-culture of origin", which I think even you'll agree is a bit of a mouthful.

PP

 

there is a ManUtd forum to discuss that team. not relevant to Ireland, right?

 

So can you give us a definition of how someone can be considered “Irish.”

 

Ok, he got his yellow because he's Irish.