Exactly. There was a case in the NC mountains like this, the Commandments had been up there for almost 100 years. IIRC, they let that stay. If it WASN'T a piece of political propaganda, 'splain Judge Moore's subsequent action. For that matter, ask why he didn't post the Four Paths.
OK, you got me there. The piece itself isn't propaganda, putting it into the entrance to the courthouse was.
True enough, but you know what? Democrats are simply not credible when they say this, least of all Kerry. Why? Because the shrill and vitriolic party activists trump these views in the public perception every single time. Why don't the Log-Cabin Republicans stampede the relgious vote right into the Kerry camp? Because they know, at bottom, George Bush means what he says when he is against gay marriage; with Kerry, they are simply not sure.
True, but the democrats have to realize that they didn't lose this election just because they pissed off the religious right. They also pissed off many people who are moderate and who do not consider themselves fundamentalists, but who think the left went too far in the other direction against religious and moral values. Those are the people whose trust they will have to work to regain.
Exactly. The conservatively biased media reflexively depict the blue states as less American, less patriotic, less virtuous. They make the Dems defend themselves from these charges. But they don't make the GOPs defend themselves over and over again about Judge Moore, or the way most red states are sucking on the blue states' teat, or the outrageous statements of Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson, or...you get the point.
But you know, Bill, they simply won't. They are in the fog of their "Bush is a liar-we're smarter-everyone else is stupid" dreamland. They are in it, Nancy Pelosi is in it, John Kerry is in it...they have all stepped in it, and their mental nostrils are SOOOO clogged up, they simply can't smell what they have trod in. So that's why we have LaStort saying that THIS is "fantasic analysis"...and all his compatriots are on the bandwagon. Take a whiff of this stuff: In the coming days, Democrats and their liberal and left allies will mull over the ruins of the Kerry/Edwards campaign and wonder what particular tactic or strategy might have led to a better result for the majority of working people in the United States as well as the other beleaguered inhabitants of this ever shrinking and increasingly violent planet. Four more years of the now "legitimately" elected Bush/Cheney administration will impoverish more Americans and lead to more tragedy and mayhem for, among others, the people of the Arab/Muslim world. If the American administration had a velvet glove phase, that particular tenderness is gone and crypto-fascism with an electoral mandate will be the order of the day. Emphasis mine. The bitterness, pessimism, negativity, sky-is-falling, woe-is-us, demagogic self-flagellation in this little piece of rhetoric shows PRECISELY why the left and their Democratic party are going to be consigned, inevitably, to the political ashbin, if they continue down this sorry sorry path.
It is not about propaganda, superdave. It is about some people's dislike and even hatred of anything that has connection with religion. But most of America doesn't see it that way. Let's be serious. Maybe the judge who put it up had his own agenda, but in fact it is just a ********ing piece of rock representing a ********ing code of law, and yet because it has some religious connotations there are zealots who can't stand seiing it in a courtroom. I didn't mean to rehash this argument, but I think this minor issue is a perfect example of how out of touch the liberals are with the rest of the intelligent people of the USA. As someone said in this threat, most Democrats don't hold these extreme views. (going back to the statue, I doubt if senator Kerry gives a crap about a statue of the ten commandments being in the courtroom.) But I think it is the party's association with those who see things this way that spooked many people, and not just fundamentalists.
This came from an interview with an NBC news director about 10 days ago who was explaining the fact that NBC reserved the right to bias their news according to what they felt necessary in order to be "fair and balanced." (I thought that a curious phrase since Fox loves to use it.) At the time he was justifying an internal memo he had sent out indicating they should bias time to Kerry. However, he went on to say that they had recently swung back over to Bush as the Kerry side comments on the draft and Social Security were less credible than what the Bush side was saying.
So your point is, then, that the problem aren't Democratic issues, but the perception of those issues. Which runs counter to the venom you've been spewing the past week about Democrats having no ideas. The ideas are fine. Its time to reexamine how they're presented.
I'm not going to bother to ask for a link, but in this case, all you've shown is that what Kerry said about one issue is less credible than what Bush said. I agree, Kerry lied as well. But Bush beat him at that, BADLY. Please find some way to explain his tax cut comment. ANY.
ASF, these are the laws. The Supreme Court has been clear on this issue. Moore just did this recently - it was nothing more than a political ploy. Sorry, but you're off base on this one.
OK, I'll bite. I'll tell you why I'm smarter than the average Bush voter. 1. I know that you can't cut taxes and raise spending without negatively impacting the deficit. 2. I know that the Iraq war has virtually nothing to do with terrorism. 3. I know that we're no safer now than we were on 9/11, and in fact may be worse off. 4. I understand that an intelligent man can change his position on a given topic when new information comes to light. 5. I know that Osama Bin Laden is still running around Afghanistan and/or Pakistan 6. I know that Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11 7. I could not possibly care less if a man believes in tree worship, as long as he gets the job done. If believing that I'm smarter than a man who votes for the leader of his country based on sound bites and half-assed "morality" makes me an elitist, so be it.
You have one or two elements of truth hear, amongst a pile of bullsh**. You're taking about The Note, and ABC, and you're not really characterizing the memo correctly.
Well, acceptance is the first step For me, it was like when Krusty voted for Sideshow Bob for Mayor: "Well, he tried to frame me for armed robbery, but man, do I need that tax cut"
Obviously you are neither ignorant nor stupid. Which is why I can't for the life of me figure out why you voted for Bush. It is no mystery to me why the great unwashed masses voted him when issues such as gay rights were on the ballot in 11 states, when people perceived Bush to be "just like them" and when the Republicans shouted "Boo! Terr'rists!" whenever their approval ratings dropped below the acceptible level. But I'm completely in the dark as to why anyone with a modicum of reasoning ability would vote for him, considering how disastrous his performance has been so far.
Maybe I am off base, from a legal standpoint. But I live in a blue state and even here most people thought it was a stupid thing to remove the statue. And I am not talking about people who are very religious. Anyway, I didn't bring it up because it is a very significant issue, and personally I don't consider it very significant. But I thought it was a good example of the disconnect between liberals and average Americans, and I thought it was relevant to the line of thought provided by the Salon article which started the thread. Maybe we can move on to other examples.
Three words: Continued Tax Break. Yeah, I voted with my wallet. That's what makes me a Republican. I'm all for keeping more of my money.
I hate to break it to you, but with the deficit rising to unprecedented levels, your tax break is an illusion. You'll pay it back with interest in the comng years.
Had the statute been there for years, I agree. But the judge was tempting "dirty liberals" by putting it there. And he knew it. I don't have a problem with continuing tradition; tradition for its own sake is important too. But we DO have a separation of church and state, and the ten commandments vary by religion. Why does Moore's version of it get to be placed in the courthouse? Fair enough.
I completely agree. The Republicans provided happy talk on the problems that they caused, and the country would rather have heard that than what was actually going on. Well, "the country." 51% of the country. Again, it's odd how the Reeps managed to channel their bitter, pessimistic, negative, sky-is-falling, demagoguery into power after the 1990's. This isn't the first time that Jesus waving an American flag won an election, and it probably won't be the last.
Part of the problem with you liberals is, you just can't appreciate what you have. What about the CBS news division? The New York and LA Times? "The View"? Oprah? Latenight comedy/variety shows? Network morning shows, like the "Today Show" with the affable Eva Braun.....
Flash!! This just in. A position is not an idea. An issue is not a position. And a position is not a issue. But then you're a lawyer, and lawyers are masters of obfuscation and imprecision, when it suits them. Democrats have tons of positions; but they have an ounce of ideas. For example, you may disagree with Bush on his approach to Social Security, but at least he had an approach to the problem. Kerry?? Keep on keepin' on, unsustainable thought the system is in the long run. Better to demagog the issue, and frighten the retirees in Florida (gee...Florida...now remind me, how did that turn out??) So yes, they do need to communicate better and with more credibility the positions they have. The ideas? Well, they'd better find some that resonate.
Not only that, they've got Jon Stewart and The Daily Show. They have the youth vote. Remind me, somebody out there, how did that youth vote go? Any word on that??
Dan Loney -- everyone is wrong but me and those who agree with me. Keep it up out there in la la land.
It went overwhelmingly in favor of Kerry. And the turnout was as much as expected. I was surprised to hear it, as no doubt you will be as well, but the youth vote did come through for Kerry. They were just swamped by Bigot-Americans. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/4/191246/507 So, the future isn't that bleak for Democrats. It isn't us that's going to have to pander to Jerry Falwell. You're going to have to pander to Eminem. *the more you know