Discussion in 'Baseball' started by TheSlipperyOne, Oct 22, 2004.
Cards or Sox?
I have a feeling the Cards are going to win. But I dunno, Boston still has a really good chance if their batters wake up.
If the Sox want to have a chance, they need total production from their hitters for sure. Consistency was not always there. I'd like to see Mient. start at first rather than Millar. He has much greater defensive abilities and has come through with the bat as well.
I'll go with the Sox to win because they seem to have momentum following their win over the Yankees. Plus having Pedro, Schilling, and that bullpen does not hurt.
The Boston Red Sox' entire fan base are people whose only reason to live is to pine away for next year. Like Cubs fans, only they're allowed to celebrate pennants. The Red Sox will go out of business if they win a World Series.
Well, since they've won five already, this seems unlikely.
I think you know what he means
Really though, the Sox are damn lucky the Cardinals bats haven't woken up yet, because you obviously can't commit eight errors in two games and expect to win the whole thing. I still think the Sox can do this, but when they get to St. Louis, those fans are gonna wake up their home team, and it's not gonna be half as easy as it's been so far.
Suppan versus Martinez? If the Sox take one in the Lou they're golden.
We were in a better position in '86 and blew it. And we'd just overcome a near-impossible obstacle against the Angels. I think a big part of being a Red Sox fan is waiting for the other shoe to drop. It affects how you root for the other teams too. Week after week, I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop with the Pats. We own the other shoe. We are in touch with the other shoe. We are at one with the other shoe that is on this adventure. Still, I'm cautiously optimistic.
True. I just thought it was a pretty cliched and lazy comment that you expect from the likes of sports talk radio, not Dan Loney.
I wasted my youth on the Cubs, the Red Sox' National League equivalent. I wish I still had my "Chicago Cubs - 1908 World Champions!" T-shirt. The disillusionment I felt when I realized the Cubs were not about winning, but about being lovable losers in that admittedly wonderful ballpark, carries with me to this day. I consider last year's Marlins series a spectacular vindication of everything I've been saying about the Cubs. They blame a goat. They blame a fan. They blew a 3-1 lead with home field advantage, and they just won't stop wallowing in it. Another bit of lore for the history, like 1989, 1984, 1969, 1945. Let's play two! Pathetic.
The Red Sox differ only in that, in the past 60 years, the scriptwriters have found it amusing to let them into the World Series, only to blow it in amusing ways. Again, perhaps I take this personally, because in 1986 I was in Long Island, and the whole New York-speaking world had embraced those disagreeable, drug-addled swine called the Mets. The baseball scriptwriters find it equally amusing to cast the Mets as unlikely heroes, as in 1969, and the insufferability of Mets fans after Bill Buckner was awful to behold. Thanks, Boston.
So I have no tolerance for a team, an organization, or a fan base that embraces chokery as part of its so-called tradition. But the Cubs and Red Sox make a LOT of money off it. If the Red Sox are serious about deciding to be an actual sports franchise that tries to win things once in a while, then I applaud their bravery. Because the Curse garbage has been a license to print money, and I think baseball will find it tougher to market a team which after winning a title will be just another Minnesota Twins or Anaheim Angels. Gee, if they win TWO, they'll be up there with the Florida Marlins!
Other teams saddled with the choker label either worked to get it off, like the Blue Jays or the Denver Broncos - or at least don't wear it like a badge of honor. The Buffalo Bills have the decency to look embarrassed about the whole thing. Not the Red Sox and Cubs, though. Wait 'til next year!
I blame the Brooklyn Dodgers. They were dog crap for so long, then signed Jackie Robinson and finally beat the Yankees and won it all. Less than five years later, they left town. I'm sure that spooked the Cubs and Red Sox, who probably think they'd end up in Sacramento or Charlotte if they ever won a title.
Maybe I just don't understand baseball fans anymore. Philadelphia fans ran the successful A's out of town, and kept those hideous Phillies. Chicago fans support the Cubs something like two-to-one over the White Sox, as if there's a difference. And there's no such thing as a die-hard New York Met or Yankee fan. Every fan in New York has two caps, one for whichever team is ahead in the standings. They went on strike, then juiced the ball, the parks, and the players to win the fans back, and the fans act as if any of these clowns belong in the record books. They should bring the dead ball back for a year, just to see Barry Bonds' expression.
In short, I come by my bitter cynicism honestly. Cardinals in 7. If the Sox take a 3-0 lead, I'll probably drive out to Vegas and put down $10 on the Cardinals, just so I can clean up on the sucker bet.
You misread Red Sox fans badly, Dan.
Even though they're up 2-0 i think this game has the feel of being an almost must win for the BoSox
I was listening on Mike and Mike this morning that the surgical procedure on Schilling's ankle probably will be too risky to try again because they're running out of skin to suture the tendon to.
So they've got Pedro going tonight, who if it goes that far can go on 4 days in a potential game 7.
If he loses tonight, they've gotta throw Lowe Arroyo and perhaps Wakefield for games 4-6.
Cards are 6-0 at home this year at home.
And not only that, but they haven't lost at home, either.
I may be nieve, but as a Red Sox fan, I refuse to believe that Jeff Suppan can beat Pedro Martinez in an important game. If that happens, I may have to reconsider my place in the universe.
Seriously... I think we see Petey's "A" game tonight. The man is pitching the biggest game of life, which also just might happen to be his final appearance in a Red Sox uniform. If he wins this game and the Sox go on to win the series, he rides off into the sunset as a Boston sports legend. I just think he's gonna dig REAL deep and leave everything he's got on the pitcher's mound.
And I don't see Suppan posting a line significantly better than 6.0 IP, 4 ER, 7 H, 2 BB, 4 K... something like that. Maybe not even that good.
haha, i didn't even notice the home thing until you pointed it out.
i don't doubt that the sox have the edge tonight, but watch out if they don't win, it'll be a rough road ahead if pedro is not on his game.
Still not sure why, but as an O's fan, i'm pulling for the sox this series.
Cause the American League is good and right and true?
Cardinals in 7. Bet the entire universe. Take out a second mortgage if you have to.
I think its at least going back to fenway
sox fans around here are getting a little bit cocky
Well, I sure didn't see that coming.
i don't even know what that was
I don't think either of these teams/orgs/fan bases EVER embraced the choker label as you suggest. The whole curse crap is ALL about the media, and especially about ESPN. It's a media creation--always has been and always will be. True fans of both teams know this. And the players on both teams know this. I remember living in New England in the days before ESPN. The "curse" was NEVER a part of any discussion of the Sox. As a kid, all I remember is how Sox fans always focused on the positives: Ted Williams was an absolute God to me, even though I never saw him play. (Except in old timers games). I doubt my grandfather, a lifelong Sox fan who lived from 1922 to 1987 without ever seeing them win it all would even know what you meant by "the curse of the Bambino" if you said that to him. Just maybe, he recognize it from some passing reference in an old Globe column that most people had forgotten, but that's about it. The recent hysteria over it has ALL been about ESPN hype.
You really think Mark Prior gives a shite about the Cubs' woeful history? Dusty Baker buys into that crap? No way.
And the good news for Cubs fans is something I figured out a few years ago re: the Red Sox. With the growing disparity between major and small markets, it's only a matter of time before the Cubs break through and win it finally. They're not merely one of 20 or 30 teams who will have a "shot" every year. By virtue of their market, they're going to be in the hunt pretty much every year, along with a group of probably 8 or so other clubs. Sure, the occassional outsider may break in, but the point is that the Cubs will always be knocking at the door. There is no "goat curse."
For some reason I think the Cubs will win it next year.
Eventually, the Giants are gonna have to win one, too...
Oh, what the hell am I talking about??
Don't get your hope up too much. Cubs love having a team that just barely loses. They are the loveable losers, they make so much money from it, torturing there fans. Red Sox use the be that way, enough to make the playoffs but not enough to win it.
Please explain to me how the Red Sox or Cubs "made money" by not winning championships. If it's true, the MLS could end up being the most successful league of all time.
By selling out games. The teams get players in the offseason to make it appear they are really going for it when in reality they know they didn't get the neccesary guys to put them over the top. If this year's Red Sox were under previous management, they would have gotten Schilling and not Foulke and we would have lost to the Yankees in the ALCS. That's how the team use to work. And when you get that big signing, fans come back cause "this is the year". Cubs don't have management like the Sox do, they wont spend the extra bucks and get another quality starter or bullpen guy, they'll get Beltran and thats it.
But only the Sox and Cubs can pull off the curse as a marketing technique. They are two of three national teams. No other fan base would take a curse seriously and only see it as an excuse from the franchise as not wanting to spend money. I think we will see the Cubs make a strong push to get more free agents and have a better 25 man roster, not just a couple stars. Sox won the World Series with 25 guys. Without the trade for Dave Roberts, the Sox wouldn't have won. Sox wouldn't have made the postseason if it wasn't for guys like Cabera, McCarty, Dougie, and Mike Myers who all contribute to win games. You are only as strong as your weakest player, and the Cubs have a lot of them. I think you will also start to see Cubs fans getting mad if they don't make the postseason next year. The Sox winning the Series probably upsetted the Cubs, because now they know they have to win it. They are expected to win it. Hell if the Red Sox can, why can't the Cubs?