PKs play sadly (ridiculously?) a huge role in these international tournaments and, so, must be factored in.
Of course. Yet, I feel somewhat compelled to mention its relevance in evaluating teams. Italy in PK's: 90 SF vs. ARG (lost). Clearly the better team and wound up missing a final vs. Germany (who were somewhat outplayed by ENG but also won on PKs) 94 Final vs. BRA (lost) 98 QF vs. FRA (lost)...France went on to win it all. 06 vs. FRA (won...finally) Germany 82 SF vs. FRA (won) reached final and lost 86 QF vs. MEX (won) reached final and lost 90 SF vs. ENG (won) reached final and won 06 QF vs. ARG (won) reached semis and lost Yes, it's part of the game but it's a crap shoot in a lot of ways. Again, it's a tribute to Germany's consistency and diligence that they have never been denied by the PK lottery but it's a worthy tid bit to consider when looking at teams' performances.
You're preaching to the choir. I don't think that the PK lottery SHOULD play a huge role in these things. We have to be realistic about it, though.
I know. We know all too well. But you are not the only one reading this. Something for others to chew on in case it never crossed their mind.
Yeah, because a European championship is generally considered to be as prestigious as a World Cup Hence the weighting. Would you rather that I weight a World Cup 2 points instead of 1.5 so that Italy would have more points than Germany instead of an equal number of points? P.S. You should rename this poll: How many Italian fans are there on BigSoccer as opposed to German fans? Do you guys really think you'll get objective opinions here?
Actually we lost our first ever penalty shoot-out in 1976 in the european championship final to Czechoslovakia. What a string of sucess we had at that time: WC 1966; 2nd place EC 1968; DNQ WC 1970; 3rd place EC 1972; Champion WC 1974; Champion EC 1976; 2nd place WC 1978; 8th place EC 1980; Champion
Well, I was actually only referring to WC PK shootouts. I wasn't even thinking of EC...but I had no idea they'd lost the 76 final on PK's. Interesting.
That was the one and only time that we have lost in PK's. Its a shame that was our chance to win 3 consecutive international tournaments.
Definitely Germany. The only way for Italy to top Germany is to count only its 4 WC golds against Germany 3's and to ignore other statistics. Germany has been in total 16 (Now 17) semi-finals combined in EU and WC. They reached 12 times to finals, and won 6 titles. Italy has still a long way to reach the record of Germany. Since 1954 Germany has always been among the best 8 teams in WC. Not forgetting that Italy's first two titles happend before WWII, when football has not been developed enough yet (Actually both Germany and Brazil were average teams and Olympic games were taken more seriously by strong countries of time like England, Hungary)
Well, that's not the only way. As has been mentioned Italy consistently tops Germany head-to-head. But I do agree that Germany has a more impressive resume' for what it's worth.
That's a point. Head to head Germany is behind Italy, specially in official games our Bilan is a disaster. Who knows, may be in this Euro we break this Talasim. Lest's hope both teams to reach final
oh don't say that first they must focus on playing good football...any other thoughts and they'll find themselves not playing their best football on the field. Only their best football will make a win very sure.
I do agree. Turkey is a very dangerouse team. Like a Boxer who has the lesser technical abilities but would never knock down until the last minuets. We need FULL concentration against them, otherwise we are out.
Germany has more trophies in the whole, but Italy has more WC. Tough call, really, although I prefer the Italians. Nowadays, they're more powerful than the Germans, no doubt. In terms of clubs, there's no questioning, but in terms o NT it is pretty even. Germany's victory in 1954 was a total robbery due to their infamous "vitamin C", so I'd say Italy.
A very nice joke. The biggest robbery of century was Italy's title in 1934. It was actually no World Cup tournament but a Mussolini one.
The fact that anyone could even think to try to discredit Germany's 1954 win yet not even mention Italy's 1934 "win" just baffles the mind.
What about the 1990 world cup? The penalty against Czechoslovakia? The penalty and red cards against Argentina? You germans always complain of italian "robberies"... look at yourself for once.
It even baffles the mind once one considers that the 1934 WC has already been mentioned in this thread several times?