What's your take on USMNT preference for MLS?

I know it is somewhat arbitrary but I wanted to get an idea of which players people believe are ready right now based upon their performances right now and you have to draw the line somewhere. I think that is a good place to draw it. I didn't want to get into speculation on players with high upside that MAY be ready soon. It is also the reason I want to avoid players that have been injured. It also keeps with your focus on meritocracy. The players that are in the second team or youth team may have convinced their teams that they will be top players but they haven't (to this point) convinced the managers that they belong in the first team (at this point in time.

 

Holmes isnt the best midfielder or winger to play the game, but that shouldnt be the question. He is clearly better than Roldan.... make that all the MLS midfielders that we have seen this year.

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Five of these guys would be in my first XI. Add, Steffen (had a rough weekend... hopefully he learns from it), Alvarado, Yedlin, Holmes, and Sargent and we are one shy of a starting XI.

Adam's and Weah are hopefully close to be back from injury. While we wait, we could be rotating kids through to help them adjust down the road, go with a guy like Sabbi who has had some success in a lesser league (all these guys should get a look), maybe play Robinson and push Dest higher up the field, and of course, Morris and Cannon should get a shot.

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First, so we are on the same page, I really didn't intend this to be a Europe vs MLS conversation. I tried to word the "rules" so that it was only a look at what players we have in Europe that are national team level right now (based upon subjective opinion of the poster and on a few simple eligibility requirements: must be in Europe, must not be playing in a youth team or a second team.

second: my reasoning for drawing a line is simply that I think a line does need to be drawn somewhere. If there is no line, than it gets unmanageable (IMO). I understand that it is somewhat arbitrary but my opinion is that youth players that are playing against youth and players that are playing in 4th division (or whatever level the 2nd team is playing at) shouldn't be deemed ready now. I am not saying that they aren't or that they shouldn't be called in for evaluation but if you are writing a starting lineup, it is difficult to say that a player (no matter how talented he seems to be) should be in a lineup if he hasn't played above the U17 or U20 WC level (for example). I can see an argument for a guy like Richards with Bayern but primarily I wanted this to be a right now, that reduces the amount of speculation on ceilings, projections etc as much as possible. Accurately predicting the career trajectories, even for the "sure things", is a real crapshoot. For now, I'd prefer to stay with what we know. You want to look at a guy like Holmes, for example? he has been playing in a first team for awhile now (as far as I know). He has a track record and has had a chance to settle to the point that we should have a somewhat better idea of what we get with him.

Third: this is just an exercise in what players are "ready" right now based upon the criteria I listed and the opinion of anyone that wants to respond. It is, in no way, shape or form, supposed to indicate which players should actually be called into camp (there are far more reasons to be considered for that...some of which include reasons that you have mentioned.)

 

no. I didn't say make a team with the best players and when there aren't any left, just fill the roster spots with the leftovers. What I intended (it may not have been clear) is for people to fill the spots with players that are legitimately ready for USMNT based upon their opinion and a couple of basic criteria (no youth or second teams). Any spots that didn't have someone would have an empty slot. If a position was 2 or 3 deep, then include all if you choose.

It is not a question of who would or would not make Dortmund's team. I think it is pretty safe to say that most of the players we have in Europe probably wouldn't play for Dortmund. Heck most of the Americans at Dortmund didn't or won't play at Dortmund. Gio looks promising. What about the others? There are still at least three there now right? (I'm drawing a blank right now).

I simply said make a roster of players based in Europe. i also said that if there is a position where you don't have a player then leave it blank.

If it were MLS I was asking about, you could leave positons blank also. (assuming you don't believe there is anyone that is at a high enough level. Of course you, as the poster, get to determine what is a "high enough level".

If, for example, it were MLS I would probably leave forward completely blank. Jozy would be my pick as one of the two but he is injured so much we can't depend upon him. Zardes i might consider a backup on the wing competing with Ariola (similar to how Klinsmann mostly used him). There are a few players that I believe have the potential to fill that void in Toye, Ebobisse and possibly a few more eventually (Pepi?, Ferriera?) but they have a ways to go. So that leaves my forward spot completely blank. (that doesn't give me two more spaces to put in extra defenders)

 

That's fine but that question (who will be best for the NT) or should we waste time with a player that is marginal at the expense of a player that seems to have a higher ceiling is 100% disjointed from my "exercise".

Agan, it isn't even asking people t say who they think SHOULD be called in. someone could say, for instance, that Cameron is good enough to be in the team (and hence, on my list) now but they don't think he will be good enough when the hex or wc comes. They are two completely separate questions. What do we have right now, and what do I think we will have tomorrow? I'm asking about now.

 

That may very well be true. I don't argue that possibility. I just think that the level of uncertainty goes up significantly the further down into the development system you go down. talent analysis is subjective and difficult enough...especially when comparing different players in different leagues across Europe but even more so when you are projecting how a player will do playing up, so to speak. I can think of two players right off the top of my head that stand out as players that were with elite teams, that seemed like they really had a chance to be top USMNT players but haven't done so (at leasts to this point): Greene and Zelalem. Zelalem is having trouble latching on in MLS and Greene many argue should be included in the pool but is hardly at the level many projected. Throw in players like Josh Perez and countless others. We have had two unqualified successes in Pulisic and McKennie to this point and a few others that seem well on their way (Sargent...Weah if he can heal) but until they can make their first team (at least on the bench) I think it is too early to pencil them in.

As far as competing for a spot, they can do that in at least three ways:
1. get called in the USMNT for a camp/evaluation based upon scouting reports, detailing current level/progress at club team, youth nt camps and games (not qualifying for my hypothetical team does nothing to eliminate that...)
2. get called in to a camp based upon the manager's evaluation of that player's potential (not because he feels he is ready but because he wants to let him get his feet wet, as a reward or whatever...mgr's choice/prerogative....again, these players would not qualify for my arbitrary line)
3. start at least making the bench. I said playing but there is obviously going to be an argument that can be made that making the bench at a team like Bayern is a significant accomplishment in and of itself that can't be ignored.

Finally, for what it's worth, if I was the manager, I wouldn't pick my team based only on who can help me right now (I would not use the rules I imposed). I would lean toward youth and would try to exclude anyone over 30 or so that wasn't an exceptional talent (yeah I know...) I would try to focus on finding a few vets in the 24-28 age range, Brooks, Long, Ariola, Yedlin, Morales are possibilities.. Holmes I don't know one way or the other and there are more...Hollingshead for instance. The main thing is that I would really want to focus on focus on finding the right youth (to me this does not mean following my exercise.). I would like to see some of the U20's get more of a chance but I also feel that during the season, it is also important to weigh the benefits of a callup. It probably had nothing to do with his not getting more than a token appearance but I think Pomykal needed the rest and getting games could very well have set him back for the season or even his career.

 

Thank you. I didn't take it that way.

FWIW, there are many on this list that I disagree with or agree with. One of my criteria on whether or not to engage is their level of civility. I get frustrated sometimes when I don't think you understand my intent (perhaps due to my lack of clarity at times) but I do appreciate your attempt(s) to keep it civil. The topics we discuss really aren't that important...they're not worth lowering ourselves by attacking others.

As you say, it is ok to disagree. Several years from now we may look back and see that we are both wrong.

 

The reporting chain:

Gregg Berhalter < Earnie Stewart < Jay Berhlater < Don Garber


one can conclude, we have several Commissioner Picks similar to MLS All-star game.

 

MLS players only make up 50% of the POY nominees. My guess is that they were confused by the math.

📰 | Have a 👀 at the finalists for 2019 #USMNT Player of the Year.

Congrats to our six nominees! 🇺🇸⚽️

— U.S. Soccer Men's National Team (@USMNT) November 26, 2019

 

If US Soccer thinks Ream and Long are two of our best players, we have much larger problems than math.

 

A lot of guys better than them missed a lot of time and barely played this year. For an award like this playing a lot of minutes matters, regardless of whether they were the right choice for those minutes or not. Weston and Pulisic are really the only viable choices to actually win though.

 

I fully expect Morris to win it as I believe over the years, performance on the US team is supposedly what they use to judge and McKennie hasn't been his best for the US awhile Pulisic has missed too many games, although his year thus far at Chelsea has been impressive. Then there's the part of me that loves watching heads explode and is thus rooting for a Zardes win.