Hmmmm. Shouldn't there be a special forum for old threads that still have some fight? Kind of like a 35-plus veteran's league?
I don't think so. Part of what captivated Rhinos fans early on was "being better than most major league teams!" And the idea that "we're going to be a Major League team real soon!" Once those ideas are completely lost from all casual fans they won't perform any better at the gate than most of the teams in other cities (ie 4k-6k fans). The Rhinos ownership and FO didn't understand the nature of the beast they were tackling when they started a soccer team. A lot of their success came by circumstance of being at the right place at the right time. Sure they did their job early on of getting good players, but they never had huge successes until they were able to comandeer Frontier Field's opening ceremonies from the Red Wings baseball team. I seriously question there long term capabilities to market the team and maintain their fanbase. They haven't taken the time to fully understand up to this point and I don't see any progress towards long term ideas.
I think that's overly pessimistic. It's been 11 years and MLS hasn't been a carrot for 5k fans a night to turn out, has it? That's true. That was huge in terms of getting them off to a great start the first year. Though they did draw well before Frontier opened in limited games at (?) SUNY (?).
They played at UofRochester on their carpet. I probably am a little pessimistic, but the higher asperations of the team is what has helped keep them in the public eye. It gets them all kinds of free advertising from the local media. If that is gone, and they remain in their current non-marketing state, things won't go so well over a few year period. Remember while fans of other teams have complained that their teams need to market, the Rhinos have been in relatively the same boat. Except, they get lots of free marketing and prime cuts on the sports page and in the local news that some MLS teams still don't get. Rochester is the largest MSA without NCAA D1 sports (well now we have RIT hockey) and the local media is starving to cover any "major" team. I think the local sportsfans are dying to have a major team in the area, too.
I think they both need each other. What other metro area in the US exists with a population of 1 million or more that actually loves soccer, already has a SSS that is designed to expand to at least 18,000 seats and has no professional team in the NFL, NBA, MLB or NHL? The MLS would be king in Rochester, which cannot be said for any of the other markets it's either looking to expand in or is already in. On the other hand having a MLS team in Rochester would put the city on the map both on the sports scene and in general. Since the USL is perceived to be minor-league, it doesn't get that much coverage outside Fox Soccer Channel.
How much are Rhino tickets? Will Rochester pay MLS prices? I'm sure part of the reluctance of the MLS about Rochester is that the TV market is really small. Do the Rhinos try to market the team in Syracuse and Buffalo? Drew, why do you say non-marketing status? That seem strange given the brand new stadium.
I believe the Nielsen size thing is a little deceptive. A more accurate picture would be to combine the Rochester and Buffalo markets. Even though they have generally different stations, they're both part of the Western NY region. It's similar to the Baltimore-Washington Metro Area, though smaller and not officially classified as one metro area. Syracuse though considers itself part of Central New York. I'm not sure how well a Rochester MLS team would sell in Syracuse.
In a niche sport like this, despite the anecdotal evidence of people driving hours to go to a game, the truth is that you're still going to draw the vast majority of your ticket buyers from within 25 miles of your stadium.
Unless you're the N.E. Revolution, which get's fans from all sorts of regions of N.E. However, there is historical precident for that occuring. Given that the stadium is placed in the middle of the Boston-Providence section of I-95... you get that. Additionally you see people from upper VT, NH, ME, CT... Although, this is the same route people take for the Pats, and the previous World Cup, US MNT games which had been held there. I would think you could make the case for people in The S.F. Bay Area, the Twin Cities, Seattle/Tacoma, etc. driving from one end of a region to the other to see a team, but I would agree I don't think Rochester applies. If there is precident for people from Buffalo/Syracuse driving to Rochester, etc. then it might add to the prospects... but I don't even see people in Buffalo even turning on the tube to see the Rhinos.
Yes, you are right. But I drive from Rochester to Buffalo to work. It's 60-75 minutes each way depending on traffic. It's less than the 1.5hrs my brother in law often spends getting from Newport Beach(Corona del Mar) to the Carson area. In Western NY it takes 30 minutes to go 30 miles. The only thing to deter that is usually the snow, which shouldn't make a difference in the MLS season. If Rochester had an MLS team, they could easily sell in the Buffalo market. Especially considering the Rhinos close ties to Time-Warner who just took over the Buffalo cable market. A Rochester/Toronto rivalry would probably entice even more Buffalo fans to get on board to cheer against anything Toronto.
To work. You have to go to work. First off, there's no "easily" when it comes to selling soccer in this country. Secondly, while an MLS team might spur some more soccer fans from Buffalo to come to Rochester, you've got yourselves a pretty fair country side up there right now, don'tcha? Are a lot of people coming up from Buffalo now?
Let's not forget we're talking about VERY BIG "IFs" to begin with... When the Rhinos started there was a good group of Buffalo guys coming up regularly. Right now as I've said in the past the Rhinos aren't doing anything to make themselves a regional team and they're doing very little in Rochester aside from their free advertising. Upstate NY has two Major League teams. A third "Major" league team would garner headlines. Hopefully it would also garner a 'major' response from Rhinos marketing people. If done correctly, the 1hr seperation between the Buffalo/Niagara region and PaeTec Park shouldn't be an issue for ticket and ad sales people in the Rhinos organization. This all depends on a long line of IFs, but I don't see why 1hr of seperation is doable for people in LA, NY, Chicago, Denver, Houston, Dallas, etc but totally isolates and hinders Rochester.
looking back on your, err, prediction!? nice try, but TFC won't fail, Colorado has a new stadium, and 4,000 at red bulls? maybe a game when it is freezing/snowing/windy... just had to say it... AWESOME FACTS !!
The Rhinos need MLS. There is no doubt about it. The Rhinos buzz is gone in Rochester. The fans feel like we were lied to not getting MLS. The Rhinos are hurting right now.
Re: Whatever you do...No MLS! There are a lot of reasons why this is a bad idea. Most of them revolve around salary cap issues, travel issues, and MLS owners not willing to let the USL owners in on their cash. More importantly, USL clubs would get the snot beat out of them on a consistent basis. I'm not saying they wouldn't pull off the odd upset, but over the course of 30 games, they would fare little better than RSL, Chivas, or Toronto in their first years (in RSLs case, every year). Good way to lose fan support in the USL towns.
If the "Rhino buzz" has indeed died from Rochester than shame on the so-called fans and the front office. Sure, the prospect of MLS was waived on the steps of Albany, but the business plans and community promotions should've been built around the bird in the hand - USL. Besides, what's in it for MLS if the fan support is so fickle? As a native New Yorker (Schenectady) I pray this gets turned around very quickly and that the Rhinos enjoy a strong following wherever they play.
I was a die hard Rhinos fan. I had my season tickets for a while now and have followed the team sense I was little. Everyone in Rochester wants MLS. MLS would not be fickle in Rochester. MLS would draw in Rochester isnt in it alone. We have all of Western NY, Buffalo, Niagra Falls and Rochester. Maybe some of Central NY. That is pretty big. Rochester doesn't care about the USL Rhinos only MLS Rhinos. If the Rhinos folded tomorrow no one would care anymore. The owners should sell. There killing the Rhinos name. I am sad to announce after this year I am no longer getting my season tickets.
Man, just when you think you saw the last gasps from a thread it just keeps coming back! Amazing! Anyway, I'm an original native New Yorker (Syracuse) and know the support that a team in the western/CNY area can recieve if all the right elements are there. The Rochester Americans are a perfect example. They know and listen to the fans. If the case has been a bait and switch I can understand why many soccer fans feel betrayed. The prospect of MLS was dangled as a carrot in order to get your stadium built, and now that the owners have gotten what they want they would rather not entertain the idea that they used that as a motivator. Fans should hold their feet to the fire. You said this would happen if we built this stadium, and it isn't. Don't abandon your team. If you do the owners will just pack up and move on down the road to where they'll do it again. The same people that were involved in that whole stadium deal in Rochester are part of the ownership group of the Railhawks down here, and although the facility was already in place, again whispers of MLS are creeping in the Carolinas. I'm beginning to see a pattern here.
Right about now I would love to see the organization fold and see another ownership bring in a new brand.
The problem is that the team didn't get what they were asking for when they were dangling an MLS team. They wanted a $50 million stadium in a nice location. What the Rhinos got pushed on them by politicos is a $15 to 20 million stadium on a horrible lot in a less than ideal neighborhood. Add in the price of an MLS team going from $5 million to $30 million and it's not so much a bait and switch as things have changed. The dream was that PTP would have been opened years ago, when MLS teams were a lot cheaper to acquire, PTP would be a cash cow, and the team could afford to make the jump. Alas, none of those things happened for a variety of reasons. Some of which the Rhinos controlled and some of which they didn't. I wish things hadn't worked out the way that they have, but that's the way the cookie crumbles some times. And as far as Cary to MLS rumors go, I doubt it's the Rhinos ownership starting that stuff up. I think it's MLS fabricating another city to scare locales like SLC into paying for stadiums when they don't initially feel like it.