What Would You Do In This Situation - Tell

Discussion in 'Referee' started by Soccerref13, Sep 9, 2007.

  1. Soccerref13

    Soccerref13 New Member

    Jul 23, 2007
    Philadelphia Suburbs
    Being a relative new ref, I had a U11 girls game yesterday. Long story short, it was a very hot day (mid-90's) and the coaches for both teams were subbing almost on every opportunity. It was late in the game (7 mins to play) and restart is a "red" team throw in. I hear the red coach scream sub, wave the player on and allow "white" to sub as well. For whatever reason, red coach decides to call the sub back even though player is on the field and not sub. I still allow white to sub to the dismay of red coach. Red coach is screaming at me, but I ignore her, and start play. Less then 30 secs later, I'm on the opposite end of the field from the benches, and it is a red throw again, coach screams sub, but red player restarts with throw before I truly heard the coach. This sends the coach out of control. She is screaming and throwing a tantrum. I give her a warning of "Coach, that is enough!' Lastly, to put the icing on the cake, with about 30 secs left and white up 3-0, white team fouls red just outside penalty area. I call direct free kick just outside of the 18, but of course, Red coach thinks it is inside the 18 and wants the penalty kick. Direct kick occurs, save and punt by the goalie, end of match.

    At the end of the match, when I am returning the coach's pass to red coach, she starts screaming at me about me favoring the other team because 1)i allowed them to sub when she didn't, 2)I didn't give her her sub on a hot, hot day (In her words, "I was intentionally fatiguing her players), and 3)I did not call a PK. My response was answering all 3 of her concerns by explaining the calls I made and that it is the judgement of the ref to allow a sub or not. I was sure that this would end it, but I was so wrong. Let's just say she went ballistic enough that all spectators on that field and the next heard. I decided to just walk away, and she started to use language that I would never, ever think of using in front of 10-11 girls and making direct insults to me. I walked back up to her and told her that although this game was important, it was "just a U11 game" and she should be embrassed by her reaction and actions, which lead to her just going nuts. I then just left the field, even though she was folowing and still wanting me to engage her.

    So, tell me what you would have done in this situation? I know I was wrong first for addressing her after the game. Second, I should have probably thrown her out of the game and asked her to leave the field. I think I didn't because I thought it was just a U11 game, and that she would understand her actions and just calm down after the warning. Was I wrong in thinking this? How do you deal with a coach that just doesn't stop?
  2. Gary V

    Gary V Member+

    Feb 4, 2003
    SE Mich.
    Misconduct applies even after the final whistle. You should have told her that she was being reported for not behaving in a responsible manner, equivalent to a dismissal. If your league requires you to identify coach misconduct just as is done for players, it would be for offensive, insulting and abusive language. She would be suspended for the next game, at least.
  3. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    couple of things...why did white get a sub at the time of the red throw in? Is that a league allowance?

    I was not there, so it is sometimes hard to give you exact guidance, but at the first instance of the recalled sub by the red coach, I would have gone over to the coach and calmly explained the sub procedure again, and tell her that once you have a player up and on the center line (which is where those subs should always be) and you yell sub, you are going to put that player in the game. Period end of story.

    Next, if you missed a sub call, that might be a problem with your mechanics. Especially with the younger teams, and less experienced coaches, I alwyas look at the center line if I am working alone at every stoppage where a sub may be allowed. And, if you miss it and the ball is thrown in faster than you wanted, just blow it back, and allow the sub, and ge the game moving again.

    The rest of the story is also fairly straightforward. If the coach persists in yelling, or behaving poorly, warn and then dismiss. Keep her coaches card, and file a report along with her card to your proper authorities. You do not need to engage her in a discussion about the call, you do not need to argue with her about her behavior. And don't ever say it's just a U11 game. It's inflammatory, and sends a message to those there that you aren't taking it serioulsy enough. Coach misconduct is VERY serious. And leads to player and spectator misconduct. Tolerate as little dissent as possible. Warn. Dismiss.

    Good Luck.

  4. intechpc

    intechpc Member

    Sep 22, 2005
    West Bend, WI
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree with most of what Rufusabc had to say. I assume the sub procedure in the leauge you were doing is like HS rules where if the possession team subs the other team may sub as well. Rufusabc hit it right on the head, you'd have been well served to nip this in the bud by heading over to her, explaining the sub procedure. I would be clear that once the sub has entered the pitch he/she is now a player and the substitution must be completed.

    Missing the sub call might be a mechanics issue or I have certainly seen even at that level, a restart happen to fast to hold it up for substitutes. Some things to consider on the mechanics side, definitely check the sub area each time the ball goes out of play. Also if you can glance over there every so often during active play that can help as well. This is where a quick conference with the coaches can be helpful before the match. Explain to them what you expect (sub at the center line before the stoppage) and there should be no griping (their still will be, but there shouldn't be ;) )

    As far as after the match, my thought is explain it once and that's it. Don't get engaged in a discussion because it never works out. And as Rufusabc pointed out, once it becomes foul and abusive, let her know it's being reported to the league. I agree that you should never belittle the match by saying "it's just U11". I know what you're getting at with that comment but as was previously pointed out it paints your attitude toward the match in a bad light. In general you have to be very careful in these situations about "scolding" the coach (pointing out the flaws in their behavior) because each coach is a little different. It's hard to know how they'll react.

    At this point I would be sure you still report the coach's behavior to the league. Be very specific about what she said, especially when it comes to the comments that contained profanity. It is clear that this woman does not belong coaching at all, let alone 10 year olds.
  5. saabrian

    saabrian Member

    Mar 25, 2002
    Upstate NY
    Leicester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I saw a player red carded after the final whistle for berating a ref. I can't see why this wouldn't apply to coaches. I think you made a big mistake by not showing her one. You should definitely report her behavior to the league. A person like that shouldn't be coaching youth soccer, especially younger kids.
  6. macheath

    macheath New Member

    Jul 8, 2005
    I think folks here have it right. Your authority to discipline doesn't end with the final whistle. Coach could have been and should have been disciplined. Report it to the league and say that the behavior warranted a dismissal, and just keep it in mind for future reference.
  7. Soccerref13

    Soccerref13 New Member

    Jul 23, 2007
    Philadelphia Suburbs
    Thanks everyone for the responses. After having a day to think about it (and after reading the responses), I should have done 3 distinct things:

    1 - In the pregame discussion with the coaches, let them know the subbing procedures and how it is going to go
    2 - In missing the sub, I should have stopped play and allowed the subs, then restart the game
    3 - I never should have said "only a U11 game" even though my point was to show how ridiculous she was; but I now understand what to me may be a simple league game might be the world to her.

    Today I was the AR for 3 U19 games with a senior center ref. In 3 games, I learned quite a bit just by watching how well he controlled the game, interacted with players and coaches, and how he oozed confidence with each call. Definitely know where I need to improve!
  8. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    Confidence is a referee's best friend....If you can sell a call, then you are way more than halfway home.

    You are 99 out of 100 times closer to the call than the coaches, and just make the call, walk away and await the restart. Don't look back, don't think about the last call, don't worry about what you overheard a spectator say or a coach. There is time for introspection after the game is over. Your full concentration is needed for the game at hand. Just like a player, a lapse in concentration can cause you to miss the next foul. You're out there for 40-45 mins a half and you have to referee the entire time. Don't worry about the missed call, just get the next one right.

  9. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Apr 7, 2004
    Southern NH
    All the info above is great, I would like to add one twist to the "Its only U11" comment.

    There's three distinct groups to consider:

    - players: NEVER EVER treat this game as anything less than the world cup. For these players it is the highest level soccer they've ever played and they will be very emotionally vested.
    - coaches: NEVER EVER treat this game as anything less than critical to world peace. For some coaches they may view it as such, also it may be the highest level soccer they ever coached at.
    - parents: NEVER EVER treat this game as anything other than the biggest family event of the year for them. It just may be.

    For many of us refs, the current game is just a game, we have no emotional connection and really have nothing vested in the outcome. For everyone else, they do. Treat it as such, it is an important event for all of them.

    Please report the coach.
  10. gosellit

    gosellit BigSoccer Supporter

    May 10, 2005
    Great post:) We should all remember this! repped

    And one other thing along this line:
    A friendly is never ever very friendly.
  11. DualYellow

    DualYellow Member

    Sep 5, 2006
    Well, not necessarily. I never take away a players right to a quick restart just to allow a sub especially when the opponent of the player making the restart is trying to sub. I have come across coaches that will intentionally throw a sub up just to slow down a restart. However, if it was a slow restart and at the last second you looked over, saw the sub, and there goes the ball, then yes, whistle, allow subs, and restart again.

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