What to do with Omar in 2016?

Thank you for a voice of rationality-- for some reason people will accept he's declined this year, but, at a crucial point in his deal with the club, still assert that he's worth the same money as before, even when *paying that same money now requires the club to jump through even more hoops*.

If AJ and Omar complementing and covering for each other is the key, then how do you decide which one gets a big contract?

If Omar can't handle our formation, or international callups, or playing with MLS quality teammates, then why should we keep him at that salary?

And how much would we suffer by dropping Omar and finding somewhere in the entire world a good defender who is willing to be paid up to a 300-500k salary (non-DP) for a couple years? Omar himself was simply acquired through the draft, and it's not like he's a once in a lifetime defender. My point is I'd be willing to take that chance with someone else, and save the mountain of allocation money, if we get it, for other important areas of the squad like, I don't know, a *goalkeeper* maybe.

I'm not sure I ever said I expected anyone to change my mind about OG's worth-- the best I could really ask for is to figure out a way to keep him that didn't require the club making unnecessary and unwarranted sacrifices, like when GalaxyKoa clarified that at least a ridiculous amount of GAM would work, and not only a ridiculous amount of TAM. In a perfect world, we sell him for a really good sum (unlikely at this point) or the guy takes a huge pay cut to stay, with option years after next season (very unlikely).

I guess I should give up waiting on those 16 videos of Omar "saving our bacon"?

To those people who believe in him all I can say is-- you've conceded that he's worse this year, so:
1. Let's see how he performs in the playoffs; ie, the games that matter most. I doubt he'll be good. I hope I'm wrong.
2. If he stays, let's see if he improves next year. I don't think he'll be here, but if he is, I doubt he'll improve.
3. If he leaves, let's see if we actually have a significant drop off in results next year (I know about 2012, but that was obv a very different side). I think we'll be fine.

 

No I totally understand that, and actually made that point in one of my posts. I never asked for those kind of videos as a counter argument; instead someone else claimed that for every mistake I posted, he could post 2 videos of Omar making great plays.

And even if he did somehow post those, it doesn't make nonexistent all the mistakes he's made.

 

And people keep carrying on the other argument.

The issue isn't just that he's underperforming relative to his salary. It's that he's a special case, because of the new salary cap/allocation money gymnastics required to pay the salary that he's not performing up to.

I wouldn't be against someone starting a thread discussing whether Gerrard or dos Santos are worth the money. This thread is about the problem the team has in trying to keep Omar next year, beyond simply paying him his AEG money, to also having to acquire and use allocation money to keep him.

And the fact that he's underperforming kind of calls into question the idea that he's the best defender in the league right now.

Sure MLS could have a rule change. But that hasn't happened yet, so as of now, the problem is as described.

 

Omar was good last night. That ball by Feilhaber would beat most CBs in any league, can't fault Omar or Leo really. Gerrard being caught out early in the buildup was the problem.

On that tangent, it's obvious getting rid of Sarvas was a huge short term mistake, and maybe it wasn't even necessary. You could have kept Marcelo on a short term deal (with a raise obviously) and played him with Juni and Gerrard in a 433, or 4231, with Gerrard given a free attacking role in both formations. Gyasi and Ishizaki would have played wings, and if Lletget and dos Santos were still brought in after the season started and Ishizaki released, rotate Zardes, Lletget, and Gio in the two wings. Once fit enough, Gio could roam centrally if so inclined in attack but remain out wide defensively (although his defensive work rate would be a bit of a question mark, that's probably preferable compared to having a hole in midfield as we do now). Then sell/trade Lletget or Zardes in the offseason. Keeping Marcelo would have allowed the club to not pay Varynen his insane wages as a squad CM.

 

I asserted in my op that Omar has declined in 2015, and posted video evidence of mistakes he's made this year, mistakes that I contend he doesn't make in previous years (or at least as many).

Then you vaguely argue against me, not mentioning the details of the clips I posted, and say that for every video I posted you could post *2* of Omar "saving our bacon" as evidence for *your* claims.

You proceed to post a short highlight video covering Omar's *2014* season.

Which I watched, and to which I replied:

I myself had acknowledged that the nature of highlight videos makes it hard to find clips of defensive plays.

I never claimed that I needed to see video clips of him making great plays for me to change my mind. You made that claim, and didn't deliver.

What would have made me change my mind is if if I wasn't actually able to find clips of his mistakes this year, or if someone shows me that he made that many important mistakes last year and thus he hadn't actually *declined*, that he was always like this.

@Berks disagrees with my overall contention about Omar this year, but at least posts stats to back that up. I still disagree based on the mistakes I posted and the deceptive nature of defensive stats, but I at least respect the effort to counter what I said with specifics and not vague homerism.

And @skydog is the only one who really took me to task on any of the actual video clips, which I find dissapointing. I disagreed with his assessment, but respect the evaluation and thought put into his arguments.

 

Ridiculous to compare Omar with Keane, which is what you are doing. According to you apparently, if Keane is still playing at a high level, then Omar must be? Ok. Great logic.

And yes, at some point, if Keane sticks around too long, his performance will drop to a level where it does not make financial sense to keep him at that salary. Not hard to understand.

Also not hard to understand is the special case of Omar's salary, which is different than paying the other DP salaries. OMAR NEEDS TO BE PAID DOWN WITH SPECIAL GARBER BUCKS, IN ADDITION TO PAYING HIS SALARY. Get it? His worth was debatable when we were just paying his salary. Now we need to pay his salary and somehow *acquire a ton of allocation money* (which is a limited resource), and on top of that, *as you and others have conceded and for which I posted video evidence*: he has not been as good this year as in previous years. Thus the question-- can we keep him? If we can keep him, should we keep him, or let him go and take our chances with a cheaper, possibly/probably worse defender?

Wow, really struck a personal nerve with you, huh? Ok I get it, you really really like him, and will post obnoxious snarky responses (instead of specific evidence). You totally gloss over the key points of my argument-- the videos of his mistakes, and the fact that we need special funds in addition to his salary to keep Omar next year-- and instead talk vaguely about how great he is (even though you agree he's declined this year) and how much Leo sucks and how stupid I must be to suggest getting rid of Omar to strengthen other areas of the squad. Are you related to Omar? Are you his agent? I can always count on a chuckle with how offended you are each time I dare criticize no 4. (The next Rio Ferdinand, I tell you! [the comparison to Rio was the funniest one; honestly, thank you for that])

 

Re: stats, I think most would acknowledge that soccer as a sport is one of the least translatable to statistics in terms of evaluating players and teams vs. the simple eye test combined with knowledge of the game. To accept what the stats tell you, you have to believe in the methodology of, eg, squawka, whoscored, except that they are not that transparent.

Big clubs absolutely do not use those stats services that cater to the fans- the clubs actually look down on them, and prefer in-house systems or or other services that are private.

Regardless, let's assume anyway that these stats are gospel-- it still doesn't address the mistakes I posted, or the idea that he's had a general drop off in quality because of those mistakes. The stats don't account for that properly, as I mentioned before. That's great if he's still good, according to the stats. If that's the case, then based on what I see going to games for his whole career here, I want his stats this year to be even better than they are.

I'm not sure if the Besler thing is directed at me or someone else? I'm not that big on him.