I'm a college basketball fan myself, won't touch the NBA stuff, though I get a steady dose of it from SportsCenter and sports talk radio. But the question I have is what team did we send to the WBC? I'm talking in terms of like our A Team, B team, C team, etc.... So if you were given the choice to pick between all of the basketball players in the US, how would you sort out the teams? A Team ------- Shaq Kobi Pierce Iverson Duncan Coach: Phil Jackson Beyond that I could name you the players that belong on the next 3 or 4 teams, though I doubt I'd be able to stick them on the right team. So just out of curiousity, obviously we are still the best country in the world by far in basketball, but by how much? I know some of our players belong on the "A team" and other probably belong on the "D team" and Collison belongs somewhere in the middle of the alphabet, but if you had to label this team, who would they be?
I think this was pretty much a "C" team for the USA. I've listed 19 guys below who I think are better than any of the players on the current team. Some of the current players might be able to crack a "B" team lineup, but overall it's a "C" team at best. An "A" or "B" team can get away with winning on talent alone. If you're going to pick a "C" team you better make damn sure you have some role players who know how to win and this team wasn't put together in that fashion. The US is a little lacking at center, although with Shaq in there I don't think they'd have any problems. FORWARDS ----------- Vince Carter Grant Hill (when healthy) Kevin Garnett Tim Duncan Chris Webber Scottie Pippen Karl Malone Rasheed Wallace GUARDS -------- Kobe Bryant Steve Francis Michael Jordan Tracy McGrady Allen Iverson Jason Kidd Gary Payton Mike Bibby Ray Allen CENTERS --------- Shaquille O'Neal Alonzo Mourning
Just so you guys know that this team was not a bunch of scrubs...... NBA stats: 01-02 leading rebounder - Ben Wallace 01-02 leading assist man - Andre Miller The team also includes the 3rd highest scorer in the league (pierce), the 5th best on rebounds (Brand), and the 4th best on assists (Baron Davis). Ian's picks are almost all right on. This was a C team, but it was in no way a mediocre team or a team of scrubs.
Out of curiosity: how many of the mentioned guys were asked and refused to play? Cause when talking about a C team or whatever, you can just compare it to the players who would want to play if only being asked.
That's just it Olaf, to most guys the economics, no or little pay (play for national pride) versus the potential for injury and loss of income is a real deterrent. Couple that with the rigours of extending the length of ones playing season by several more weeks, and it easy to understand why many players say no thanks. Here in the USA training camp for the NBA begins in late August or early September. The season starts in October and if you make the NBA Finals it ends in the end of June. Sure it's shorter than the soccer season, but if you ever played basketball, you know how hard the floor is on the legs. Plus, unlike soccer you play double the number of games. Having played both sports, the recovery from soccer is much faster because of the shock absorbing nature of grass fields. Think of it this way. You are asked to volunteer for some local business group and you slip off a ladder and hurt your back and as a result can't work, you might be pissed and worried on how it will affect you when you get healthy and go back to work. Maybe it never happens, but in all sports there is always the risk of injury if the risk outweighs the return you are right not to do it. The greatest basketball coach ever was asked by several of his players if they should try out for the Olympic Team. His advice was always you have to weigh the potential for injury versus the pride of playing for your country. That man was John Wooden and almost every single great star to come out of UCLA in the 60's through the 70's never played in the Olympics.
Alberto, I know that a NBA basketball season (or NHL or MLB) is much harder than soccer, that's why I'm laughing about every soccer player complaining about having too many games. Good that we have Dirk Nowitzki. After being out in the playoffs he said "I'm exhausted, I urgently need vacation now - but in three weeks I want to have a basketball back in my hands". As the German basketball organisation isn't very rich and Mark Cuban insisted on a ninsurance that costs 200 K during this two WC weeks, Nowitzki is even paying a part of this sum himself just to take part for Germany.
Man, I'm not so sure about a football season being easier than the NBA. I mean, sure they play a lot of basketball games, but in the Euro football leagues they play league games, cup games, continental cup games, official national team games, national team friendlies; in the case of the Southamericans, they have to travel overseas to play those two last categories. And sure the court impact is lower in football, but in basketball they don't kick you in the legs. I think it's pretty much even with a slight edge towards football being harder.
This was our "A" team. This was the team that USA basketball CHOSE to put out in the World Championships. Some of the players on your list were injured. Some of them were asked and refused to play. Some of them were NEVER ASKED, like Steve Francis and Chris Webber. Steve Francis has made it very clear that he would love to play for the USA, but he has never been asked. Of course, SF may not have been healthy enough to play, but that is beside the point. USA Basketball decided that this team would be better off without Webber, Francis, and anyone else that wasn't asked, like Iverson. Look, if USA Basketball made a decision that the team would be better off without certain players, you can criticize that decision, but you can't complain that this was a "C" team when the players you would have selected ahead of them were never asked to participate.
If Brazil sends a team minus Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Roberto Carlos, etc.... to the Confed Cup, are you going to call it Brazil's "A" team? No. We didn't think for a second we'd lose any games this WBC, so we didn't bother getting the biggest and best players. We got some good ones, and in some cases, some really good ones, but these aren't the best. And just because we didn't ask some players to come, or some players refused to come, doesn't mean that we still call this our "A" team, because it's not the best we have to offer. I could really care less that we lost, no one in this country cares about the WBC because we know that it will be a long time before anyone can seriously contend with us in terms of talent. That's not being arrogant either, it's just an obvious fact.
what a load of crap. This team was fine. It was more like a "B" team, not C. Ian's list of guards: Kobe Bryant Steve Francis Michael Jordan Tracy McGrady Allen Iverson Jason Kidd Gary Payton Mike Bibby Ray Allen Maybe you don't watch the playoffs or havn't paid attention, but Reggie Miller has torched all of these players in the past few years, aside from Ray Allen and Bibby. I'm not talking 10 years ago, I'm talking within the past 3 years. Reggie Miller has made Iverson cry before. Ben Wallace should make any team since he is the best big man defender in the league. Paul Pierce is statistically even with Mcgrady except that Pierce actually has won a few games. I don't see much of an argument for Francis being better than Andre Miller or Baron Davis either.
I'm surprised no one is mentioning the fact that these guys had about 3 weeks to prepare for the tourny. Sure you throw any group of NBA players against the Kiwi's and they'll smoke them, but against the top teams of the world you have to not only put your best against theirs, but they also have to have a team mentality. I don't keep up much with NBA myself, but I do know the superstars from the one-time all-stars, and a select few of those guys I hadn't even heard of. I think we should have just brought back all 12 of the original 92 dream team, i bet those guys could win us 1st.
I was trying to put one together the other day with this in mind. I would say a B or B- team. Not bad at all. first team c: Shaq, pfuncan sf:VInce Carter sg: Kobe Bryant pg:Jason Kidd c:Alonzo Mourning pf: Chris Webber sf:Grant Hill sg:Iverson pg: Gary Payton sgTracy McGrady pf: Kevin Garnett ------------------------- c:Jermaine O'Neal pg:Mike Bibby sfaull PIerce c: Ben Wallace pf:Karl Malone sf: Shareef Abdur-Rahim sg:Ray Allen pg: Andre Miller pf: Rasheed Wallace pg: Steve Francis sg: Jerry Stackhouse sf: Michael Finley ------------------------- c:Antonio Davis c: Raef LaFrentz sg:Antoine Walker pf:Elton Brand sf: Glenn Robinson pg: Baron Davis At this point I'm sure there are players that I'm not thinkg of, but yoiu get the point. Most of these players arguably would be on the first three 12-man teams of NBA players. They wer not slouches.
Even if we would think for a few seconds that we would lose any games in this WBC, so what? the point is that WBC is of very low in status in the American basketball culture, thus winning it is no big deal, losing it is a risk that we would take. Same thing for Brazil about the Confederations Cup and the 2001 Copa America, which they had the disgrace of losing to Honduras. Did Brazil think of the possibility of losing in those tournaments? you bet. Would Brazil have done it differently (order Rivaldo, Romario and Roberto Carlos to play: if you don't show up in Colombia 2001, you won't play in J/K 2002)? Probably not. Now, I would expect all the A players would flock to play in the 2004 Olympics to restore the American pride. After that, do you think we'll see the A team in the 2006 WBC? I won't bet on it.