When Klinnsman took over out attack and midfield was pretty similar to now in terms of top players: Dempsey, Altidore, Bradley, Jones and Donovan. But our back line was comprised of players nowhere to be found (mostly due to age): Bocanegra Onyewu Bornstein Cherundolo Demerit Ream None of these players is on the scene now. I for one am skeptical we'll see much of Cherundolo again. In fairness, Goodson is still around. Bottom line this is a massive overhaul.
You're right it is a massive overhaul. But regretably, I only see significant improvement at left back. Fabian and Beasley > Bornstein
I think Dolo will be there in Brazil, but yeah Klinnsman has to work with a lack of talent in the central defense, no one can argue that. Its by far this teams biggest challenge. We could be looking at going into Brazil with a central defense composed of MLSers.
If we go by FIFA 13 then my back-line of Tim Ream and Gonzo will do just fine in Wembey for the World Cup Final.
No, not really. By the time 2011 came around, Gooch was on the bench, Bornstein was deep on the bench (the only match he played in GC 2011 was coming off the bench in the final due to Cherundolo's injury). Arguably, Ream had played himself off the team. He did not receive any playing time after his errors vs. Panama in the 2nd match. Demerit was nowhere to be found. Our defense was Cherundolo, Boca, Goodson, Lichaj, Spector, Gooch. Chandler was offered a chance to join as well. Of which, Klinsmann stayed with 2/3's of them through most of 2012. Change really hadn't happened until second half of '12 and '13. He gave a bigger role to Goodson at the expense of others and dropped in Chandler once he committed and has added Beasley as a new fullback.
Yes, it is a massive overhaul. But it also a very recent overhaul, taking place primarily during the Hexagonal. In October 2012, for the must-win 6th Qualifier of the prior round, arguably the most important game of 2012, JK's back line was: Cherundolo, Cameron, Bocanegra, Parkhurst. The unused defensive sub was Goodson. http://www.ussoccer.com/news/mens-n...advancement-to-final-round-of-qualifying.aspx The top defenders in minutes played in 2012 were: Cameron 812 mins (all at CB) Cherundolo 781 Bocanegra 770 F. Johnson 677 Goodson 568 Parkhurst 389 Nobody else even got 200 minutes. http://www.ussoccer.com/teams/us-men/statistics/2013-statistics.aspx So, the serious transition to the likes of Gonzo, Besler, and Beasley is a purely 2013 phenomenon. Very, very recent. Many posters warned that this transition was arguably the most important issue facing the US in the post-2010 World Cup period. The aging of the 2010 core (Boca, DeMerit, Onyewu, and Cherundolo) was obvious to anyone with access to a calendar. I wish the transition had been accellerated much faster than it was. It's an old topic debated on man prior threads, but I still feel strongly that JK waited too long to implement the transition. However, that's water under the bridge at this point, and the team will simply have to make due as it transitions to some very inexperienced players while at the same time trying to succeed in the Hexagonal. Expect the bumpy ride to continue, as Gonzo and Besler and the other newbies are going to continue having ups and downs as they build up their résumés of international experience.
Has Besler looked good in WCQ without the experience? sure. Has cameron looked good WITH the experience? Not really. Gonzo of course was called in to multiple camps and an injury might have more to do with his lack of playing than anything and it is evident he has a ways to go. The bumpy ride will continue throughout Jurgens tenure and wont end till he leaves. It is going to be a bumpy ride and will remain so with him as coach.
The back four is the only place we get to see what Klinsi's management skills are. After all, we have two pedigree cm's in Jones and Bradley. Hope Jones can play into his thirties. Also we have Dempsey and Altidore who are proven scorers even if they arent meshing too well at the moment. At wide forward we have....well, we dont have anybody but now would be a great time for the usual suspects to explain that in Klinsi's system the width comes from the fullbacks. It's groundhog day all over again.
Yep. To call this realization/transition late is an understatement. The writing was on the wall two years ago.
It is a subject you've beaten to death, and I've tried to occasionally remind you that it is not a manager's job to develop talent, but rather to pick it when it's ripe. But I give up-go ahead and post another 50 posts on JK's missed opportunities to play the callow youth in Friendlies, as if that, rather than scouting and training camps would make all the difference.
The central defense problems have left me not as enthused about the 2014 cycle as I have been for any cycle in my lifetime (been following the team since '90). There is just a major talent gap there. I'll get the butterflies and excitement again, but its hard when you know Gonzalez/Besler/Goodson/etc are the best you've got and you are going to have to go with them. Maybe someone or 2 someones will step up out of nowhere, but time is running short, we've only got about a year to make that happen.
Eh? The question isn't whether there was a problem and a lack of recognition of a problem. It was what the USMNT manager should do about the problem. In the interim between the previous, aging CBs, and and the current younger, less experienced CBs, JK used a dedicated shield in front of the back four in order to compensate for the disruptions of the transition. He also tended to use at least one wide midfield player with more grit than speed (such as D. Williams) in order to minimize the impact of inadequate CBs. Now that he is more comfortable with his CBs, he has dispensed with the dedicated shield, but still favors at least one wide midfield player with strong defensive tendencies.
You really think that's true? Paid professionals didn't see what you did, or if they did they chose to ignore it? That really strains my sense of credulity, though that a fan would believe so doesn't surprise me at all.
Coaches are never wrong? Fans should shut it and trust in things(coaching staff) when they're looking bad or something needs improvement? I hope Besler-Gonzalez works out in the end. The backline is likely this teams biggest weakness. Could be the difference getting out of the group in 2014. Would have liked George John for Gold Cup. Not using John as an example for Klinsmann neglecting the backline though. John couldn't stay healthy.
Coaches are wrong all the time, but they're not stupid. Fans, on the other hand, take a few pieces of information and expand it into a thesis they consider a work of genius, even before they've taken the time to try to understand the problem from the professional's perspective. I agree with this. It's key to the success of the USMNT. The spine (Altidore,Dempsey,Jones/Bradley, Howard or Guzan) is super except for the CBs.
I agree with you for the most part but I think I need to add to this. The issues have been recognized and have addressed. Are biggest problem isn't JK being some neglectful and terrible manager, it's been a curse of the player pool. We've seen countless players getting a look in the back and not too many have stepped up. We've seen around 10 CBs over JKs tenure. Cameron has looked to be one of the most consistent ones (ignore Belgium). Think about that, the guy that doesn't even play CB for his club has looked the best for us there. The right back situation has been iffy and JK, just like the rest of us, are waiting for scientist to be able to clone Dolo. Seriously though, Dolo looked like he was going to be able to play through 2014 before recent injuries. Chandler has been a unreliable. Parkhurst looked like a solid prospect but then just disappeared in the Germany. Cameron just isn't a fullback. Then there's a considerable drop in talent after him Left back situation hasn't been awful but it's confusing to say the least now. Fabian was a huge boost to our back line. Perfect for JK's system but with his recent move to the midfield for club and our lack of wingers and outside midfielders it seems like a blessing in disguise. Castillo has been getting call ups but not a lot of time. JK could've done better with this one but throw in 2 terrible timed injuries where Castillo and Johnson were both out we've had to adapt. I think it says a lot when the manager has more faith in a 30+ year old winger playing LB than any other prospect. all in all, I don't fault JK for "not recognizing" or taking too long to transition. He's been trying. We've had a pretty mediocre response from a lot of call ups lately. He's not free of blame but certainly isn't the major reason our backline transitioning is being held up.
Remind me again how Matt Besler, MLS All-Star in 2011 and MLS Defender of the Year in 2012, and age 25 in 2012, was a callow youth. Zero caps until March 2013. And remind me how Gonzo, a multi-time MLS All-Star was a callow youth in the Fall of 2011 (before his injury) when JK was giving nearly all the CB time to aging Boca, Goodson, and Onyewu. Just look at my signature of the last few months and see how scouting and training camps fit with JK's own words. But it's water under the bridge. You can't turn back the clock. Now we do have very inexperienced CBs starting in crucial qualifiers in the Hexagonal. There are indeed consequences to choices previously made. The team has to work through those consequences and hope things work out OK. But it will continue to be bumpy and everyone will have to be patient with the newbie CBs as they build up their caps.
After watching and re-watching the last two friendlies, it is clear that the USMNT needs a new defensive coach. Vasquez absolutely has to go. He needs to be removed immediately if the US has any hope of advancing in the WC. Our defense right now is playing 'stupid.' which is to say they don't know how to position themselves relative to the ball on the pitch. They don't know how to defend transition counter-attacks and they don't know how to hold a high line. Each of these is on the coach. This will be a quick trip to Brazil if a change is not made.
Significant improvement is a lot to ask for. The 2010 was pretty solid so slight improvement would be fine really. The old guard made plenty of key mistakes too. Onyewu couldn't be pushed around, but got that horrible penalty vs. Ghana and towards the end his speed was exposed multiple times. Gooch wouldn't have gotten that penalty vs. Ghana if Boca cleared the ball properly. I really like Boca but he is just too old now. Even Demerit who didn't play all that much made crucial errors. Feel his failure to block the first Brazil goal is the main reason US didn't win Confederations Cup. There is still a year to go and IMO it looks like things are coming together. A lot depends on Omar getting better, but I'm pleased with Besler so far.