What is wrong with USMNT pool MLS Forwards?

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by drace768, May 27, 2004.

  1. drace768

    drace768 New Member

    Jan 29, 2004
    Dallas, TX
    This MLS season is arguably the most important one to impress Bruce Arena for WC '06. By next season, the US will be deep into qualifying, making it harder to break in or solidify a spot. Yet, given the significance of this season US MLS Forwards have started in poor form. The chart below shows current and projected '04 numbers for MLS Forwards in or potentially in the USMNT pool.

    .........................’04 CURRENT.........’04 PROJECTED
    MLS FORWARD......GOALS....ASST......GOALS...ASST.
    A. Razov..............2...........1............8..........4
    E. Buddle.............1............0...........4...........0
    J. Cunnignham......1............0...........4...........0
    E. Johnson...........2............1...........9...........4
    F. Adu.................2...........1............7...........3
    A. Eskandarian......1...........0............3...........0
    S. Quaranta INJURED
    J. Wolff...............2............3...........9...........13
    J. Kirovski............3............1...........10..........3
    J. Wolyniec..........2............0...........9............0
    M. Magee............1............0...........4............0
    P. Noonan............2............1...........9...........4
    T. Twellman.........1............1...........4............4
    B. Ching..............5............1...........19...........4
    L. Donovan..........2............4............8...........15

    I know it is still early and that projections are shaky at best, but with the exception of Brian Ching, no one is putting up numbers that would force them to be in the USMNT roster.

    IMO:
    A. Razov - Needs to play very well to get back in Bruce's plans.
    E. Buddle - Had great run of form when not injured last year, but is not doing well this year and is injured again.
    J. Cunningham - Needs to play very well to get back in Bruce's plans.
    E. Johnson - Playing best soccer of career and has huge potential but needs to get better results.
    F. Adu - Has put himself in the picture, more because other Forwards poor form than him being in good form.
    A. Eskandarian - Needs to have breakout season to be considered.
    S. Quaranta - Injured...again and again and again.
    J. Wolff - If he can staly healthy, is producing better than most and is already a Bruce favorite.
    J. Kirovski - Producing better than most, getting playing time Bruce said he needed, poor USMNT history to overcome, now injured.
    J. Wolyniec - Going to have a hard time impressing Bruce being 3 or 4 on Metros depth chart.
    M. Magee - Going to have a hard time impressing Bruce being 3 or 4 on Metros depth chart.
    P. Noonan - Doing OK but not forcing his way into Bruce's plans.
    T. Twellman - In the middle of worst goal drought of his career.
    B. Ching - Best in form US forward in MLS. Ironically with McBride still an option and Casey playing well in Germany, "Target Forward" is not as great a concern, but it never hurts to have depth.
    L. Donovan - Playing very well, but could be destined for the midfield for USMNT.

    IMO, not exactly an impressive group right now. I hope some of them step it up to make Bruce's decisions difficult because so many are in form instead of so few.
     
  2. m vann

    m vann Moderator
    Staff Member

    Colorado Rapids, Celtic FC, & Louisville City
    Sep 10, 2002
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MLS forwards have suffered from lack of service and haven't capitalized on their 1/2 chances. It may be because of lack of instinct. To be national team caliber you gotta finish any chance you get whether it be an tap in from the goaline or a 25 yard bomb. Very few of our forwards can create chances by themselves so they have to rely on others to provide chances. This is becoming less of a problem but we need more forwards with that "killer" instinct. Twellman is the only one that comes to mind (I don't consider LD a forward), even though he's been unlucky because he's had some good shots saved, some near misses, and some come off the post. Fowards don't have to be flashy, they just have to be in the right place at the right time, have good ball skills, and make effective runs.
     
  3. CUS

    CUS New Member

    Apr 20, 2000
    Razov has been hurt and is just now starting to play the whole 90.
     
  4. Ringo

    Ringo Member

    Jun 10, 2002
    Rough and Ready
    Club:
    Yeovil Town FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Beasley and Mastro (both non-forwards, of course) made late surges to make the WC2002 roster. granted it would be better to have somebody step up now but it's not like next year is too late.
     
  5. Mr. Bandwagon

    Mr. Bandwagon Member

    Terremotos
    May 24, 2001
    the Barbary Coast
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Another way to quantify offensive production is average points per game (90-minute period):

    Ching........................2.33 pts/game :cool:
    Magee.......................1.37 pts/game
    Wolyniec....................1.33 pts/game
    Adu...........................1.12 pts/game
    Kirovski.....................1.01 pts/game
    Wolff.........................1.00 pts/game
    Donovan....................1.00 pts/game
    Razov.......................0.96 pts/game
    Johnson....................0.71 pts/game
    Noonan.....................0.71 pts/game
    Buddle......................0.47 pts/game
    Eskandarian...............0.43 pts/game
    Twellman..................0.43 pts/game
    Cunningham...............0.30 pts/game <--includes a PK
     
  6. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    MLS teams play good defense,keep that in mind.No forwards in the league waltz in and score.It is a fact that USA generally has good defenders and keepers and the teams are well organized defensively. Bocanegra, for example was a good player in MLS and he looks just as good in the EPL.McBride is scoring as much in EPL as he did in MLS.A guy like Donovan is usually marked much more closely in MLS than in a typical international game, even against good teams! It is a tough league in which to score.
     
  7. Casper

    Casper Member+

    Mar 30, 2001
    New York
    I hear your point, but I think this can all be summarized as: Twellman isn't scoring, and Wolff could be scoring more. Donovan is playing brilliantly, Kirovski is playing very well, and Buddle is still hurt.
     
  8. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I think things are skewed because our MLS based forwards have to try and beat our world class goalkeepers week in and week out. ;)
     
  9. Serie Zed

    Serie Zed Member

    Jul 14, 2000
    Arlington
    This is the group fighting to get onto Bruce's radar:
    E. Johnson - Playing best soccer of career and has huge potential but needs to get better results.
    E. Buddle - Had great run of form when not injured last year, but is not doing well this year and is injured again.
    J. Kirovski - Producing better than most, getting playing time Bruce said he needed, poor USMNT history to overcome, now injured.
    T. Twellman - In the middle of worst goal drought of his career.
    B. Ching - Best in form US forward in MLS. Ironically with McBride still an option and Casey playing well in Germany, "Target Forward" is not as great a concern, but it never hurts to have depth.

    These guys have already proved themselves and will be called up if healthy:
    J. Wolff - If he can staly healthy, is producing better than most and is already a Bruce favorite.
    L. Donovan - Playing very well, but could be destined for the midfield for USMNT.

    These guys stand virtually no chance of being called for a WCQ:
    J. Cunningham - Needs to play very well to get back in Bruce's plans.
    A. Eskandarian - Needs to have breakout season to be considered.
    S. Quaranta - Injured...again and again and again.
    J. Wolyniec - Going to have a hard time impressing Bruce being 3 or 4 on Metros depth chart.
    M. Magee - Going to have a hard time impressing Bruce being 3 or 4 on Metros depth chart.
    P. Noonan - Doing OK but not forcing his way into Bruce's plans.

    And this one is just too much of a wildcard to predict:
    F. Adu - Has put himself in the picture, more because other Forwards poor form than him being in good form.
     
  10. Casper

    Casper Member+

    Mar 30, 2001
    New York
    Zed - I agree with almost everything, but I think you're over-rating Ching's place in Bruce's eyes, and under-rating Noonan's place. Noonan's versatility matters to Bruce (can play midfield competently). Pat was called in for Haiti and Mexico, camp in December and camp in January. Ching hasn't proven that he's above Cunningham and Wolyniec in Bruce's pecking order yet.

    I agree with you though, that based on current form, he's the best forward not called in this year. He may also be playing better than anyone at any position not called in this year.
     
  11. cleat/less

    cleat/less New Member

    May 7, 2004
    hoosier-land
    doesn't the bruce value team players quite a bit? I've read a lot about what a jerk razov is. I gotta think he has very little chance of getting back into the national team pool.
     
  12. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think Ching and Magee have been very impressive this year. The rest are underperforming, but the season is early. As someone said, service has not been great, especially from midfield, and defenses are playing well this year. It's still early. We'll see where we stand at the end of the season.
     
  13. Wahoo

    Wahoo New Member

    Aug 15, 2001
    Seattle, USA
    I think Ching may have as much upside as anyone right now in MLS.

    He just seems to score when given a chance and I'd like to see him get a shot.

    I dont think we can attribute the lower scoring numbers on good defense or keepers (I know some of that was in jest) or on poor service from midfielders. If we look at the scoring tables in MLS... Ching and Kirovski are the only 2 Americans (unless I'm mistaken) out of 9 players with 3 or more goals.

    Carlos Ruiz - LA - 7 games 6 goals
    Brian Ching - SJ - 8 games 5 goals
    Alejandro Moreno - LA - 7 games 5 goals
    Fabian Taylor - MET - 7 games 4 goals
    Amado Guevara - MET - 7 games 3 goals
    Jean Philippe Peguero - COL - 7 games 3 goals
    Cornell Glen - MET - 4 games 3 goals
    Jovan Kirovski - LA - 7 games 3 goals
    Damani Ralph - CHI - 8 games 3 goals
    Landon Donovan - SJ - 8 games 2 goals
    Andreas Herzog - LA - 9 games 2 goals
    Jaime Moreno - DC - 9 games 2 goals
    Josh Wolff - KC - 7 games 2 goals

    If Ching keeps it up, I can see him getting a look, particularly if he continues to work well in conjunction with Donovan. Maybe it's no coincidence they are both having productive years when on together.

    By the way, the biggest fault I have with Ching is that he no longer plays for the Seattle Sounders!!!
     
  14. the Next Level

    Mar 18, 2003
    Chicago, IL
    The good team defending and truly world class goalkeeping makes a HUGE difference.

    There is absolutely no jest at all in my statement.

    Case in point. Jon Busch was near unbeatable in last weeks game with Chicago. Many great chances from point blank range - and very well taken - were saved.

    And who is the worst goalkeeper in the league? Rimando? Garlick?

    Who wants to face them?

    The only forwards who score regularly in this league are either extremely good (Ruiz) or new and surprising like this year's top performers so far.

    NL
     
  15. Wahoo

    Wahoo New Member

    Aug 15, 2001
    Seattle, USA

    I agree that the defending and goalkeeping keeps out goals. The top 2 scorers are veterans but you're right, a lot of the others are newcomers... and it may change as the defenses figure out how to defend them better. It wasn't so much the sheer number of goals... but rather the number of goals for US citizens compared to goals for non-us-citizens.
     
  16. drace768

    drace768 New Member

    Jan 29, 2004
    Dallas, TX
    I wonder if there is any possibility of Bruce ever using a "Twin Tower" approach at forward? Pairing two of the three McBride, Casey, Ching. IMO Ching and Casey have decent balls skills and speed to give them a more diverse game than McBride, making any pairing of the three possible. With these guys making coordinated near and far post runs, any cross into the box would be extremely dangerous. Just a thought.
     
  17. GenXer

    GenXer New Member

    Sep 25, 2003
    in my head
    Eddie Johnson is the only player on the list that really has the unique abilities which would allow him to break open a match. I don't think he's fully realized those talents at the professional level yet, but you can definitely see they exist for him. He just needs someone to help him cultivate them. I think Bruce has proven himself as a coach who is able to clearly explain/show what he expects out of a player and helps him to produce those desired results. So, I think EJ should be included in as many US Nats camps as possible to get access to Bruce's influence. With his physical gifts I just wonder if surrounding him with better players would amplify his skills in a way that playing with the Burn doesn't allow him to do.

    I also think Ching, in his current form, might have a comparative advantage over some of the others on the list. Not only because he has shown an ability to be a good target forward/workhorse, but because he and Donovan frequently seem to be on the same page when they're on the field together. Why not see if their relationship translates to the international level?
     
  18. GenXer

    GenXer New Member

    Sep 25, 2003
    in my head
    Sorry, I forgot Sir Freddy was on the list! Of course, I would include him as having some special gifts that can change a game (in a few years at the international level).
     
  19. cleat/less

    cleat/less New Member

    May 7, 2004
    hoosier-land
     
  20. Dr.Phil

    Dr.Phil Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    kirovski has been playing well

    and i dont think Ching is going to score that much
     
  21. Treetaliano

    Treetaliano Member

    Jun 29, 2002
    Charlotte, NC
    Brian Ching has ZERO international future. I can't believe I'm reading that.
     
  22. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    why? Just because he can't score like Eddie Johnson? :)
     
  23. Wahoo

    Wahoo New Member

    Aug 15, 2001
    Seattle, USA

    Ok if you're going to write something like that ... you should have at least some evidence or argument to support your opinion.

    He turned 26 this past week. Will be 28 during the next world cup run. Is scoring better than any other American in MLS. Works well with Donovan. Has size and a knack for the goal. I saw this guy when he played for the Seattle Sounders and thought he had a bright future.

    So please give a reason why you think he has ZERO future with the national team? Are you basing this on his first game with the nats? Do you see more forwards knocking in goals? Who is going to keep him out and why?
     

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