That is a totally different issue than there being a lack of money to run soccer though. The fact that the product 'is worth more' now should not effect the amount of money available to run soccer in Canada. This isn't an issue like in the US where the women demanded more money, it is an across-the-board cut to existing funding.
I think that’s all true, and USSF just has a more sustained history of success meaning they’ve been able to build up the financial resources over a period of time. If Canada continues to be successful they will too eventually. Canada is a fairly wealthy country, and while they don’t have the population of the US, their population isn’t that far off an Argentina. If they can keep being successful, eventually the resources will be there. I think the issue is that they cut deals which now undervalue what they could get currently in the open market. And that they are now having to make cuts as a result. They did spend a ton on the men and their qualification efforts and I wonder if that just sapped the organization of resources. Or they’ve just been running things in a financially unsustainable way and between the costs that go into the Women’s World Cup and the men having a busy schedule this year, they can’t financially afford to fund both teams at the same level. I also do think that CSA is probably a pretty poorly run organization overall. Like with USSF though, all their financial statements are all available publicly. https://www.canadasoccer.com/wp-con...dian-Soccer-Association-Incorporated-2021.pdf 2022 is not available yet, but I’m sure it will be at some point this year.
Well, yes they signed onto a deal with an MNT that had done nothing and then became semi-successful. That is potential lost revenue but not lost money. They could have been better off than they are now, but that shouldnt make where they are now untenable. I feel like the focus on CSB is mostly a red herring for this topic. Yes we will probably find out CSA lost out on a lot of money. Yes we will probably find out CSB got one over on CSA. But CSB is the one really risking the revenue on a successful product, CSA didnt have the means to invest. Yes, CSA is without a doubt the most likely issue here. But their deal with CSB should not really be the reason why they are cash-strapped now.
I'm sure the CSA is a shitshow; most federations are on some level. And I'm pretty sure you are right about the sequencing -- they locked in deals too early, and I'd add it is clear that they were going to use the prize money from the World Cup to backfill programs, but they had to give some to the men. But I'd also say this: in a lot of countries, the national teams don't get paid very much. It's often a token fee and the club is supposed to support the income. If you are a weaker country, or support women's soccer, you generally struggle then because you actually need to supplement income. That's how the US got to where it is, but it is a huge drain. The problem is, it's not going to change -- in England, they get to pocket the funds raised and spend them on youth development. In the US and now Canada, the team isn't generating nearly as much profit. Which is really how federations fund their work. I get that people would rather players have the money because they view the Feds as companies, but they aren't. When Alphonso Davies insists on pulling his jersey/likeness out of the deal with the players association, yeah, some of that probably paid Fed salaries, but some of it funded youth soccer. I don't really blame most of the players -- except perhaps guys like Davies and David who don't need the money -- but I'm betting that some of these cuts are coming because the CSA ended up giving up more of the WC prize money to the players right before the World Cup. But you look at those financial statements, and the national teams basically break even. $18.3M in commercial fees -- which I assume covers sponsorships and tickets and the such and $18M in expenses. Basically they are funding the rest of the CSA through government grants and association fees. That's not really how a national team should work in a healthy fed. It should be generating cash for the rest of the works. Now, again, that could all come down to terrible sponsorship deals and the such, but $18M ... But the US was at about $42M in the same year and pulled a $7M profit. In 2019 (ending Mar 2020), it was $110M and cleared $17M in profit -- and we don't get enough out of ours, either. The sponsorships are going to be massively bigger in the US, but the CSA should be able to outshoot their population on gameday revenue versus the US. But I think one of the problematic dynamics here is if the players aggressively go after and get a huge % of the national team revenues, how the hell is the Federation supposed to fund anything? The US has to charge for coaching development or player development stuff in large part because we paid out $92M in players salaries, coaching salaries and travel / rent costs in 2019/20. That basically pays for the youth national team stuff, of course, but that's the primary revenue for ours and Canada's fed. (Also probably a reason for the national training center idea.) Canada's going down that road, but they don't have the scale the US has. So I imagine they screwed up, but I also think that other federations get to use the national teams to generate a lot more profit than the US and Canada do.
I think what the 2022 statements will likely show us is that CSA overspent in a World Cup year and because they don't have as much access to the upside, their only path is to cut back this year.
Thanks for the breakdown gogo. My own thoughts on this were just intuitive and not informed, I just couldn't help but feel, man, a program that's basically been borderline, bottom of the barrel since I was 13 years old (I turned 48 this past year) finally has some good news, and at that moment everyone comes scrambling in like wolverines thrown into a chicken coop. It just seems very short sighted as in the sense of: guys, there almost is no canadian soccer foot print to speak of. Sure, the women have left their autograph on the game the past 15 years or so, but there's a tangible limit to the effect of that w/o a corresponding and relevant men's game considering who watches sports and who spends the $$$ on sports. Building the game and the programs out, and using this mens turn around to accomplish this is HUGE and it just felt crazily short sighted to immediately look for a money grab, to go on strike, when there was literally no Canadian soccer relevance to Canada's sports culture past a few years ago. It's hard to build this ----, and if you watched what happened w/soccer w/that build out from the sixties through the seventies, that stalled out and collapsed in the early eighties, like, it can get worse, fast, instead of just progressing forward, it needs to be handled well. It's just frustrating to see so much infighting. At this point I went on a long screed about my frustrations w/women refusing to watch and support women's sports a la Bill Burr's last special, thought better of it, and edited it out lol. I've said my piece already on that equal pay b.s. before, probably don't need to indulge it again.
Largely agree. It would not shock me if the CSA and CSB were corrupt and funneling much needed cash. It wouldn't shock me if they were incompetent. It also wouldn't shock me if their rights are not worth all that much. We already know how few games are actually in the national team package. The idea that we're heading into the World Cup is more than offset by the fact that the men's side is basically 100% friendlies. And I don't think it is a bad thing if the CSA is helping the CPL in some way. It should be disclosed, of course, but the CPL is important and likely needs the help. But that said, I also think that national team players shouldn't be milking the contract for all the money they can get, and especially not if they are getting paid millions by their club. I think the transparency is important, but if the CSA shows the books, and the money is going to prop up a developmental league that needs health, or youth scholarships or something ... eh, that's different than a player getting the most salary out of their billionaire club owner. The CSA doesn't have scale... so it's going to be tough to generate excess cash.
Canadian youth teams have been uninspiring of late. This was a pretty tepid game all around as it was a "dead rubber." Both teams had already advanced. One of the real next steps for CSA and Canada soccer is getting their youth teams going to a real degree. Cuz there's probably no more underperforming nation in CONCACAF there. What can one expect with so little preparation? [Well, Jamaica too. They're a consistent mystery.] FT | Hard-fought three points to top Group F! Onto the knockout round 💪 pic.twitter.com/l5U1adqPJP— U.S. Soccer YNT (@USYNT) February 16, 2023
Outside of Davies and possibly David who from the CMT is making Millions per season in Club Football? The players should be trying to get as much money as possible as their careers are short and they ned to strike while their iron is hot. CSB was largely created by the CPL owners to ensure that the CPL survived. It's already been said and pointed out that it was modeled after MLS and SUM. The CPL has learned from a lot of the missteps that MLS took in its early years and largely avoided them. The CPL has made great strides so far, but still has a long ways to go. The next labor agreement with the players will be interesting to watch and pivotal to the leagues continued growth. I find it ironic that fans here in the states have the boxes all in a bunch over MLS' Apple TV Deal. Yet, the CSA and CPL have been on One Soccer for what 5 years now? For those that aren't aware, One Soccer is a subscription based streaming service that carries all of the CMNT and CPL games, as well as other soccer content. How do Canadian Fans feel about that?
I think in 2018 when the deal was made in CSB, there was very little interest in the tv rights and CSB's offer was more than fair. I think since that time Canadian soccer has surged (very unexpectedly on the men's side) and those tv rights are likely worth much more. I believe the CSB deal is also locked in for 10 years with the option for a 5 year extension. I do feel like there's no harm in CSA opening their books more fully to the players as it's probably going to show the money just isn't there. Similarly they should be open with the players about what sorts of other offers were on the table in 2018. CSB claims that their offer was 3 times what CSA was making at the time. That's the sort of thing that should be fairly easy to verify.
I'd imagine Borjan, Larin and Estaquio get paid well. Cavallini sucks, but he got paid $1.5M last year to be terrible. Mark Anthony Kaye makes $600k and Piette $400k. But yeah, I get the player perspective. But I think it makes it really hard on the Federation. How are they supposed to do anything if the National Team doesn't make a profit? Where does the money come from? I've seen this parallel, and it is true to a certain extent. I would point out that SUM wasn't created with MLS, and it was only creating when US Soccer couldn't sell their media rights. MLS actually created SUM for the benefit of US Soccer. Everyone claims it was funnelling cash to MLS, but in the early days of SUM, it was actually millions going to US Soccer from MLS in exchange for being able to package right. Bundling rights is smart, but if the CSA is just giving away money to the CSL ... that's different than the MLS/SUM model. MLS had really rich people losing a lot of money early to get their massive valuations now. The SUM component was a nice side element to get everyone on the air and generate some cash flow, but wasn't just funneling cash one way.
Total minutes played by Canadians for all 11 tier 1 🇨🇦 clubs from the start of the 2019 season to present. Any surprises? #CanPL #CanMNT #CanadaSoccer #NorthernFootball #MLS pic.twitter.com/koO8SjIsgp— Northern Football Analysis 🇨🇦 (@NorthernFtbl) February 16, 2023
SUM in fact was created without the US Soccer rights and was originally a vehicle to package MLS rights with the 2002 and 2006 World Cup rights (which at the time no US broadcaster was planning on bidding on). They even incurred a net loss in doing so, but thought it would be a setback for soccer in this country if the World Cup wasn’t televised. They actually signed their deal with the Mexican federation before the one with USSF. Eventually they bought IMG out of its contract with USSF and lost money on that for a few years too. At the time there were no competitive bids because it was a money losing contract (though this less true as time went on). The rights themselves weren’t bundled together until 2006, and the idea was to do so to help both MLS and USSF. CSB is sort of trying to replicate this model, but it’s also different and they also have different circumstances.
3rd goal in 4 games for Cyle Larin in La Liga 1626984843023200256 is not a valid tweet id Davies took personally the decision to start Cancelo in champions league. He collected the assist against PSG and has been playing very well lately Make that a goal and four assists in his last five games. Both assists today came with Bayern down a man. #FCBayern #canMNT pic.twitter.com/gNwQHkBQ4u— Farhan Devji (@farhandevji) February 18, 2023 Jonathan David is still 2nd best goal score in France
This inspired me to look at the World Cup squad for Canada in 2022 and how they were paid last season in MLS. All of the players on Toronto and Vancouver were making big money. St. Clair makes a relatively small salary in Minnesota, though he seems likely for a big increase. The surprise is how Montreal had the largest contingent, but one which is on relatively small salaries, all on 450K or less. Kone and Johnston at least will see significant increases in 2023.
Canada Soccer has strategy to raise almost $5M to help reverse course on deep cuts to national team programming: Ask families to pay more.During meeting in Ottawa today, CS told provincial members it wants to hike annual player registration fees by $11, sources tell me.— Rick Westhead (@rwesthead) February 24, 2023
Concacaf U17 Semifinal: USA vs Canada (Highlights in English) Same as above, but in Spanish, instead.
The 13 provincial & territorial members of Canada Soccer have sent Canada Soccer President Nick Bontis a letter demanding his resignation, TSN has learned.Today's letter says provincial members have no confidence in Bontis's leadership.Story up soon on https://t.co/ZM3ewglBxy.— Rick Westhead (@rwesthead) February 27, 2023 He was just appointed VP of Concacaf a few days ago. It just gets better and better.
Nick Bontis resigns as Canada Soccer president, saying: "I acknowledge that this moment requires change." #canMNT @canWNT— Neil Davidson (@NeilMDavidson) February 27, 2023 And now he's resigned. I have zero insight as to how good or bad he was at the job, but the main issue for the CSA is that they just don't have enough money for what they want to do, including in meeting the demands from the players.
I think it needs to start with some level of transparency at this point. There's not enough money to go around, I suspect, and the big issue here is that people are making decisions without their stakeholders understanding. It might have been the best long term decision to actually support the CSL, but they are acting like there's something horrible to be hid. This is one of the reasons why you try to bring people into the decision making process -- I suspect that the players might have been more understanding of the financial situation if it hadn't been withheld.
Yup I think they need to give the players a full accounting of the financial situation CSA is in and what the options for rectifying it are.
So now he's working with his boy Montagliani at Concacaf....wonderful....... ANywho, hopefully the CSA elects a stronger leader, or at least a leader who is more transparent with the constituents and stakeholders.
New: Canada Soccer faced crisis last fall amid preparations for the men's World Cup.With 2 women's national team games scheduled in Nov. in Brazil, players were told CS couldn't afford their camp & trip.Only a private-sector donation prevented WNT cancelation, source tells me.— Rick Westhead (@rwesthead) February 28, 2023 A private donor agreed to cut a check to Canada Soccer to pay most costs for WNT camp and related expenses in Brazil.Same donor covered costs for U20 and U17 WNT camps."The women's team funding is on life support; we're soliciting handouts," source close to CS board tells me.— Rick Westhead (@rwesthead) February 28, 2023
And we US fans complain about the USSF...... good grief. Just when it looked like Canadian Soccer had turned a corner, it's looking like a mirage.