What is the problem with Canada?

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by LouisianaViking07/09, Jun 11, 2016.

  1. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    If Leeds United proceeds and buys Cyle Larin from Besiktas, we would have a Canadian playing in Premier League as the club is in the automatic promotion zone at the moment.
     
  2. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    so let's review the club seasons of Canada's major players (Borjan, David, Davies, Cavallini, Hutchinson, Larin)!
     
  3. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    The Belgian league ended their season with Club Brugge as its champions and Jonathan David finishing at the top as best goal scorer
    1245697063985299457 is not a valid tweet id
     
  4. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Would David directly qualify for a work permit?

    Canada are the 3rd most talented team in Concacaf. It's a shame they won't be in the Hex.
     
  5. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    For England, I'm not sure since Brexit and but there's been a huge push to make working arrangements more favorable towards Canada, Australia and NZ.

    Not sure how CONCACAF will approach the WCQ after losing all those international windows. They might revamp it or just use the current results. Anyways we put it, someone will get screwed
     
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  6. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    LouisianaViking07/09 repped this.
  7. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
  8. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I thought so too but seems legit. The source article was wrote the day after :)
     
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  9. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Umm.....Football is on hold at the moment. Doubtful that clubs are thinking about transfers at the moment, when they are trying to figure out how they are going to pay their employees and possibly survive this pandemic.
     
  10. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Might not be the case for MLS but most European clubs will come to accept that this season is over with the Belgium league ending it first.

    CPL clubs are still signing players at the moment

    They are absolutely thinking about the next season and how their clubs will look like when it starts again.
     
  11. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  12. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
  13. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Canadian Premier League MVP Tristan Borges will most likely promote with his club OH Leuven to Belgium 1st Tier next season in the Jupiler Pro League, where Jonathan David currently plays.
    That's a massive accomplishment for him and the CPL who was able to attract other leagues to our talents.

    His goal of the season
     
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  14. VBCity72

    VBCity72 Member+

    Aug 17, 2014
    Sunny San Diego
    Club:
    Plymouth Argyle FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So he played in the CPL last season won the MVP and during the winter transfer window transferred to Leuven in the Belgian 2nd division? And they might get promoted to the 1st division because they might just cancel the rest of the season and promote those in position to be promoted and not relegate anyone?

    Sorry just trying to get the story correct in my head.
     
  15. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    That's pretty much it
     
  16. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    CPL Commissioner Clanachan interview


    CPL working on different scenarios and schedules to restart the league
    • Single table allows for mor flexibility. Ultimately have to follow governments guidelines.
    • Not a fan of playing in pty stadiums and hard to pull off economically but didn't close the door on that option
    • Some within CPL staff are pushing to have the league being the 1st league to restart in Canada to have all of the attention but Commissioner reiterates it has to be safe to all staff and players. Risk has to be worth it...not at this time
    • Says that not being a cross-border league and being smaller is an advantage in term of potentially making it feasible to restart due to less complicated logistics

    -Expansion
    not affected by COVID 19, still talking to potential owners. His focus is on Quebec, the Prairies, Ontario and the East (Atlantic Canada)

    -Pacific : Hydro Pole - They asked the city, province and BC Hydro to move the Hydro Pole to fix the camera angle for the stadium which proved problematic. Otherwise, the league might draw a line and moving the club might be on the table.

    -Cavalry
    : Larson sees that club as leading the league in CPL 2.0 - Commissioner says that the owner, Southern family are willing to spend on the club and owns lots of land. The club is very ambitious about where it wants to be on and off the pitch. They will go as far as their ownership are willing to go.

    -FC Edmonton
    : The stadium is subpar - Not all cities are stepping up like Langford BC. Says the stadium needs work and the foundation is good to expand upon but seems like attendance will have to go up first before seeing big infrastructure improvements

    -Valour
    : Winnipeg had great attendance, how to grow it - Comes down to results, Valour will have to do better on the pitch to have more fans. Clanachan want 8k to 10k in CFL stadiums, says it will take time for clubs to get there.

    -HFX Wanderers
    : Is Halifax the blueprint for future expansion - Now says that 400k to 500k metro area is the sweet spot, work off the pitch was well done to the point that downtown Halifax is CPL territory, everything is about the Wanderers.
    • Reminds that after the big Euro leagues, the average attendance is around 10k, that's CPL goal to be just like most Euro leagues in attendance
    -York9 : Is a new venue the answer (using Kansas City new stadium to turn things around) - The new club president will bring changes with his background on business and sports.
    • The club improved on connecting with the community.
    • The commissioner thinks that they should succeed at York Lions Stadium before building a Soccer stadium in Vaughan.
    • York Lions can succeed of the club do it right off the pitch. (Pointing out to that home game against Montreal)
    • Stadium in Vaughan should be done only after exceeding capacity in North York becomes a necessity
    -Forge : Can Forge go to the next level, 8 to 10k - Have to solidify their work in the community and soccer community in the area. The club is now doing more with engaging fans, they have to keep doing it. Building a brand is not only on the pitch.

    -North American
    : Garber had mentioned that it was a missed opportunity to not work with CPL - Commissioner feels that CPL has to focus on building up. New Liga MX players coming to CPL could be a beginning to involve CPL with other partners in the region but it starts with potentially building a relationship with MLS when the time is right.
    • Prefers talking cooperation over confrontation, our region is playing catch up to the rest of the world, we're all in this together and we're learning from one another.
    -Academies? Says that North America has a real problem with academies and have not proven to work.
    • The rational of the league for not going that route is that only 2.9% of the ~600 players developped by MLS academies saw first team real minutes. CPL is looking at other models that would yield better returns.
    • Points out that between 40 to 50 players in CPL inaugural year has played in England League One.
    • Montreal owner Joey Saputo said that he was losing money on Montreal Impact academy but making money on Bologna academy side. Academies has to be done right, not just having them just for the sake of having them
    • Gave the example of Brentford in Championship who's close to promote to Premier League. They stop having academies as they would develop players but couldn't hold on to them since bigger clubs came knocking after doing the heavy lifting of developing them.
    • Investments must be focused on the technical development side of the game first so they can develop players here at home first before investing massively in academies that may lack the expertise to develop them properly leading to wasting talents.
    Designated Players : Not on the league's radar atbthis time.
    • He views those brought in the old NASL and MLS as "Mercenaries already looking for the next job" and that didn't work out until David Beckham joined MLS and it worked.
    • Worries about bringing internationals who just wants to finish their career (last paycheck) or those just looking for the next club as soon as they arrived
    • Says that the league has to be strategic on what kind of internationals are signed in this league, he prefers signing young talent wanting play lots of minutes in Canada and on the upside of their careers coming from academies with great pedigree
    • Having older players is nice but you need the right coaching and technical staff to coach them.
     
  17. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I thought the CPL was fundamentally supposed to be a developmental league for Canada?

    But the non-academy option seems to be ... let someone else develop young players? How does buying other players and not having academies forward that?

    It's weird to see the comparison to MLS Academy success when MLS payrolls, and therefore, foreign talent, far exceeds what CPL should be dealing with at their payroll structure.
     
  18. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    One of it's main mandate is to help the Canadian program to become stronger and expand the pool of talent but being a competitive league was always the goal as well.

    The ambition is to be a top 3 CONCACAF. This means building up to eventually surpass Honduras and Costa Rica on the pitch, they definately do that financially sooner rather than later.

    Because the league recognize that it doesnt have the expertise to not only run them, but to produce quality talent. You can start academies and learn as you go like Montreal, Vancouver or TFC has done but you'll be bleeding money along the way.

    That's a huge ask for a new league from investors. Investing in building that expertise and acquiring it makes sense for them.

    In the meantime, they prefer to rely on existing Canadian academies who has that expertise (Sigma, Blainville, FC Edmonton, Calgary Foothills etc...) or signing young international talents from prestige academies like 23 years old Gabriel Vasconcelos from Corinthians or 24 years old Alejandro Diaz from Club America which they can flip for more money if there are buyers.

    The league did it's homework on what worked or didn't work and are trying to avoid doing things that might not be efficient.

    CPL shows humility by admitting right off the bat that they are unlikely to do better than MLS academies (2.9%) in Canada using the same methodology. That's why they are looking at alternatives.

    As of now, CPL clubs relies on existing academies who have the expertise and it has been working so far.

    Cavalry - Calgary Foothills & Alberta academies
    Pacific - BC academies
    FC Edmonton - FC Edmonton acadmies and Alberta
    Valour - FC Manitoba and Manitoba academies
    Forge - Mainly Sigma
    York9 - GTA Academies
    Halifax - Quebec and Atlantic Canada academies

    Canadian Universities (U-Sports) = Draft

    CPL looked at starting their own academies from scratch but it would have been very costly to run and could have potentially alienated the existing good ones with whom you're potentially competing against.

    As of now, it's mostly cooperation across the board, something Canadian MLS academies failed to do when they opted to "colonize" Canada by putting academies all over the place. They pissed off the existing academies who wouldn't work with them but had more expertise.

    Not saying the 3 don't have one now, but they burned a TONS of cash and bridges to get there while wasting LOTS of talent. That's not a reflection on MLS as a whole the the reality of the landscape in Canada. CPL understands it and dont want to replicate this
     
  19. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    #3019 gogorath, Apr 11, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2020
    So it's fundamentally more about cost and timing. Which I understand. MLS didn't start academies for years, either. But the phrasing in the CPL release dodged that significantly and made it sound like there was some mysterious way of development. It's really just not investing there now.

    I still think the MLS comparison is wrong. There are players in MLS that make salaries that could fund 2-3 CPL teams' total payroll. There's a lot less competition for domestic players and so the percentage of academy players than panned out would be much, much higher in the CPL simply because they can't buy Carlos Vela or Pity Martinez to block a domestic player.

    Heck, they can't buy an Anton Tinnerholm or Magnus Erickson.
     
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  20. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    For years Canadian academies have been ignored by the 3 MLS clubs for the most parts and Canadian universities. There's plenty of places to look for talent before thinking of starting their own academies.

    The point is to have a more open system for development which with the best being funneled to CPL. That's one of the mandate of the league to no longer have talent falling through the cracks

    What comparison and what does MLS salaries have to do with it?

    They were using real data to show that spending lots of money on academies this early on when CPL is unlikely to do better might not be the most prudent way to start off. They were just explaining their pragmatism.

    That's actually wrong. There's already a bottleneck of domestic talent wanting to come into CPL but there isn't enough teams.

    Domestic players still have to compete for minutes against international talents.

    CPL and MLS couldn't more different...and CPL isn't trying to be MLS-lite...quite the opposite so comparisons are truly pointless.
     
  21. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Looks like CONCACAF will change the WCQ
     
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  22. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Serie A clubs, both Milan clubs, joins the race to acquire Jonathan David
     
  23. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    If I could pick the teams I'd want to represent Concacaf at WC, it would be

    Canada, Jamaica, Mexico and USA (in alphabetical order).

    I think those teams would put on a good show.
     
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  24. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    Not Costa Rica?
     
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  25. Three and Three

    Three and Three Member+

    Sep 13, 2015
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    While it's nice to see Canada improved and challenging, and even entertaining, its body of work just isn't there. It will be someday soon. But for now I just can't feel sorry for them. If they can qualify their way forward, a salud. If not, oh, well.
     

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