While it is of course about winning soccer games, and I do agree that he can stay here (MLS) his whole career and be a superstar, i still believe that you have to consistently do it for your club team to be a superstar. Just because a player, ANY PLAYER, has a pretty good run of play at one WC, scoring 2 goals and maybe assisting on one or 2 more, does that make that player a superstar? what makes a player a big time player is to do it time and time again on whatever stage they are performing. It is the accumulation of good play consistently, not just from a WC.
Re: Re: Weren't we arguing about Donovan's productivity in MLS[r]? Has Congress passed a law specifically prohibiting Donovan from playing outside the USA?
I always love seeing everyone pissing on themselves discussing why Landon needs to go to Europe... Landon will go to Europe when his contract allows him to go to a league and team that will best fit him. Until that happens, he will stay in MLS and build US Soccer. Plain and simple. I expect that to happen in the next couple of years. He can then play in Europe for 8-10 years before coming back to the MLS and retiring. By the way, great post by voros. If anyone doesn't understand the importance of Landon playing in MLS, then please read his post.
Re: Re: Weren't we arguing about Donovan's productivity in MLS[r]? So many people talk as if it's a given that Landon will be playing in all these World Cups. Of course we hope he does. But it's far from given, even if he is young. Injuries are frequent, even career-ending ones, and of course the US could fail to qualify, tho that's less likely. But if you don't mind waiting and hoping he'll shine against the world's best for 3-4 games every four years, that's fine. But I'd rather see it every week. And yes, proving oneself consistently against the likes of Alessandro Nesta or Rio Ferdinand is slightly different than doing it against Rusty Pierce or Danny Califf -- regardless of whether those games are watched by "euro snobs" on "Fox Sports World." If you can't see that, you know shxt about soccer. I'd make the conclusion if you really feel that LD has nothing left to prove to world soccer fans or himself just because he scored twice in a WC and plays pretty well in MLS. As for comparing Pele with Donovan's situation, that's simply absurd. Brazil was a world class team in Pele's era, winning World Cups, and most of their players then played in Brazil. It was a different era, and Brazil's league certainly had some of the best club teams in the world back then. Last I checked, the US hasn't won a WC, let alone one with an almost exclusively US-based squad. So please, I really enjoy LD's game too, but comparing him to Pele is just slightly over the top.
Re: Re: Re: Weren't we arguing about Donovan's productivity in MLS[r]? First, I would suggest that I know enough about soccer talent, irrespective of the league in which it is played, to know that Donovan would succeed anywhere. He has nothing left to prove to me in that respect. Perhaps to you and others who still doubt his talent. I hope for playing longevity on his behalf and that of the USMNT. Second, I did not compare LD with Pele. I compared his domestic league play with that of Pele. Granted (and everyone knows) the Brazil of the 1960's was not the US of the 2000's. In particular, there was no internet or worldwide television coverage of daily soccer news. The point was and is that Pele's international reputation was made because of his outstanding play in international competition, not because of his play within a Brazilian league.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Weren't we arguing about Donovan's productivity in MLS[r]? Actually, i would dispute that contention. Pele has a reputation because he produced EVERYWHERE at ALL times. when you look at Pele and his career, he had a wonderful WC in 58 when he was 17. In '62 he was kicked down by lesser talented teams as a means of defense and didn't play at least the last half of the tournament (which Brazil won WITHOUT HIM), IN '66, he was again injured by players who sought his demise and missed much of the tournament, and in '70, as a lesser player than he was in previous years, he had a good tournament again and they won. However, when you look at overall goals in WC play, there are plenty of other players WHO PLAYED LESS WC's than Pele, who have more goals and/or assists. Pele was certainly the best ........... but he was the best because of the 18 year volume of his work, and NOT because of the 2 full WC's that he participated in. I find it utterly ridiculous that people continue to say that a 21 year old player in MLS has NOTHING to prove in the world of soccer. People who have nothing left to prove should be considering retirement. lol If LD retired tomorrow, he would just be another guy in the long list of guys who had one decent world cup and a relatively indistinguished club team history. For people like me, I wanna see if he can be great, in all competitions, over the course of a career. Is that too much to ask before we bestow superstardom upon him?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Weren't we arguing about Donovan's productivity in MLS[r]? Please re-read my post. My reference to having nothing to prove is to talent, not longevity. If you look at my previous post, you should get the idea that I agree completely with the need for longevity with respect to establishing any lasting reputation.
Always mixed emotions when you talk about LD's situation. As a fan, I LOVE watching him play week in, week out. When he's on, he's electric, and when he saunters through games, he frustrates. The guy is head and shoulders above the vast majority in MLS, even though the statistics don't always show it, and it's great to witness, even if he's not going to end up with the Golden Boot (and if he played in all the games like Preki, he just might have). I agree with someone who said that I know a fair amount of soccer, and there's absolutely no doubt in my mind LD can play at the highest levels of soccer - or at least close to it - week in and week out, and shine on the big stage. But saying it and it actually happening are two quite different things, and I think even Landon realizes this. He's dropped enough hints in the last 3-6 months that while he loves playing in America, that he's being tempted by Europe again, and will most likely head back over there, possibly sooner rather than later. For a huge part of me it would make me sad. Like I said, I love watching him play, and I think there are not only many hardcores like me who like watching him play, but thousands of kids who get to see one of their "soccer heroes" up close and in person. Like voros points out, 15 years from now some great soccer player will be relaying the story of how much it meant to him to get Landon's autograph and his picture taken with him, and how it spurred him on to become a great player. In the end, I don't really care what he does. I'd love to see him stay, but if he went to Europe I'd understand why and be excited as hell. Basically, I want him to do what he feels is best for himself and for all the right reasons: for security, to prove himself day in, day out, and always with an eye on having fun, the thrill of performing in front of 50,000 as opposed to 10,000. I'm just rambling. All 3 of his goals v. KC were thrilling. The fact it was in front of 30,000 made it just that much more special. I hope he never plays in Serie A which would just encourage his diving tendencies, which he's quelched considerably since his early days. I can see him flying past Rio Ferdinand, though not on a regular basis, as nobody does. Just seeing him do it once, though, in Old Trafford, would be way cool.
Here's my question. How many young kids have been motivated to become soccer players by Reyna (or JOB for that matter)? Claudio played 3 years of college ball, then straight to Europe. Do you think there are more Reyna fans in the US then Donovan fans? Are more kids wearing Reyna jerseys? Will we be reading interviews from the next generation about how Claudio was their example? Maybe, just maybe, one guy staying here and possibly "sacrificing" his talents could have more of a positive influence for our nation's soccer future then all the American "superstars" in the old world combined....
Re: Re: Re: Re: Weren't we arguing about Donovan's productivity in MLS[r]? Mostly valid but Santos was also touring the world constantly and in high demand during the Pele era. The played an absurd amount of games each year cashing in on it everywhere they could.
yeah, to be honest, i don't have a problem with Landon playing here, for the same reason that i want to see Adu here .......... we need someone of high quality who is marketable to be the face of soccer for a few years. back in the late 70's and continuing up until 1980 or so, the NBA finals were broadcast on tape delay, in the middle of the night. Noone really watched basketball. Enter Bird and Magic, and within 4 or 5 years, the finals were HUGE and basketball was taking off into a 15 year run of astronomical numbers. it can happen (maybe to a lesser degree) in soccer. keep hope alive.
Nice post, agree with most of it though I think LD would learn a hell of a lot more than diving in Serie A -- like how to play and make space for himself against the tightest defenses in the world. I recommend going to Parma.
Hey, get on the phone to his agent. Let's get him over there. Listening to him on the radio last night, I don't think he's long for this league. He will NOT go back to Germany; Leverkusen is going to have to sell him. He wants EPL, Spain or Italy. I picture a scenario of the Quakes winning it all and possibly Frank heading off to the Canadian nats, and Landon going to Europe in January.
And that has been the issue since the World Cup. Leverkusen isn't really much of an option, so someone else would have to step in and drop some pretty good sized cash on him, or else it's the Quakes for a little while more. Dropping 6 or 7 million dollars on an American field player with no club experience beyond MLS is not the sort of thing European clubs are prone to do. Someone might to do it, but they run the risk of hearing about it from the press and supporters ("With that kind of money you could have bought a Brazilian or Argentinian. Why an American?")
Nothing personal Voros, but i'm just using your post to ask my question since i've heard this time and time again from others. Why has everyone resigned themselves to the idea that Leverkusen was out of the question for LD? yes, i know that he wasn't getting playing time there before ......... but he was a kid at the time. If you look at the way Leverkusen performed last year (they were NEARLY relegated just a year after making the CL finals), one might say that they should have recalled him LAST year. Sure, they are doing much better this year, but i saw them play Bayern the other day and although they got a great tie, there is no question that LD in the midfield would help them. Is it just a matter of hurt pride?
Re: Re: Weren't we arguing about Donovan's productivity in MLS[r]? If Leverkusen wants him to play in Germany, I imagine there's not much Landon can do about it; after all, he's under contract there through 2008 I believe. On the other hand, on the radio show last night (which I'm listening to on archive this morning), he said he definitely does NOT want to pay in Germany, but would much prefer England, Spain or possibly even Italy. It sounded like Landon is definitely thinking about a return to Europe at some point, but does not want to go to Germany.
It's at WorldSoccerWeekly. He stated the reason he doesn't want to play there is basically their style of play doesn't suit him. Says they're pretty boring, not a lot of flair, which is what he likes. I don't think it has to do with playing time. And I'm aware of the major asking price Leverkusen is wanting, but hey, his agent has done a good job of getting Landon what he wants so far, so who knows? I'm just going to enjoy watching him play while I can, cuz I still don't think he'll be here that much longer.
Two reasons: he doesn't much want to play for them and they don't want to play him. Donovan clearly did NOT like Germany one iota, and Leverkusen has clearly been less than enamored with his willfullness.
Pretty good discussion, but it strikes me that one thing is missing from this debate about MLS-based Landon vs. Europe-based Landon: A lot of people seem to place emphasis on Landon "proving" himself in Europe (i.e., whether he needs to or not in order to be considered a "great" player). What's missing is the whole idea of development and continuing to become better. I personally believe that he will need to go up against the best in the world week in and week out in order to continue his improvement as a soccer player. For me, it's not a question of Landon proving his skill. It's facing greater challenges and raising the bar so that he can improve his skills.
WARNING: [R] SAN JOSE V. DALLAS Results, don't look if you're taping the SJ-DAL game. Holy effing shit. Donovan's got two goals and they haven't even hit the hour mark. His first showed such composure, it was scary. He just rounded Cassar and slotted it home. The second one was a carbon copy of his goal versus Mexico. Speed, percision, power. Leverkusen must be salivating at this.
Re: WARNING: [R] SAN JOSE V. DALLAS I think it's pretty clear the golden boy just pulled into the lead in the MVP race.
Leverkeusen is probably rubbing their hands together and making "Cha-ching" sounds, not drooling. Its unlikely that he will play there, more likely that they will sell him,
You forgot the assist on DeRosario's second goal. He also should have had a second assist as he sent Jamil Walker in alone on Cassar. Jamil apparently wasn't watching what Landon did on his first goal and fired straight at Cassar when Cassar came out to challenge. Yallop had Landon take a seat a minute later, having seen more than enough. Landon "I don't put up great stats in MLS" Donovan is now tied with Taylor Twellman for the league lead in points per game. He's tied for third in total points. Tied for third in goals. He's alone in second in the league in non-penalty goals, two behind Twellman. Only one of Donovan's 12 goals have come from the spot (Razov has 4, Spencer has 4, Preki has 5, Ruiz has 6, Twellman has 0, Ralph has 1). The Earthquakes are the clear favorites to take home the Supporter's Shield at this point. He has the numbers, there's little doubt about his skills, and his team has the best record in the league. Sounds like a good MVP candidate to me. Twellman's the only one right now with both better numbers and a significant level of playing time. And the Revs are in last place.