Watch list Attackers Orange team

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by feyenoordsoccerfan, Oct 11, 2019.

  1. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member+

    Jan 26, 2007
    None of them are good enough to start (though wouldn’t mind having 1-2 of them in the final squad for different attacking look). Promes (when healthy) and Bergwijn are ahead of them in the pecking order. By a good margin. I would argue that Stengs is making a really strong case to be in the starting 11. He is truly a special player. Then you have Boadu who’s scoring goal for fun (leading Eredivisie), and can slide to the flank.
     
  2. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Promes and Bergwijn are wingers though, so they wouldnt be competing with those 3 for the striker position.

    AFA Boadu and Stengs are concerned, they need to be given playing time in our upcoming USA/Spain friendlies to see how well they do
     
  3. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Dont rule out Lammers and [zivkovic who has made the move to Sheffield united in epl]. if Zivkovic starts scoring in epl then there is no doubt that he will be the best replacement for depay. he also is a proven scorer.
     
  4. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member+

    Jan 26, 2007
    Koeman’s attacking lineup is quite fluid and “position-less” - even when Depay was slated as a striker, he drifted a lot to the side. I think Promes and Bergwijn would operate in the same manner.

    Every time I watch Stengs at AZ, I am getting more convinced that he should be in the lineup since he’s bringing a special forward playmaking ability to complement the speed (Promes & Bergwijn). Stengs is extremely comfortable to roam freely and he’s accustomed to drop deep to midfield. This would take pressure off Frenkie to be on the ball ALL the times, and this would open up spaces for Gini to make his forward runs. Koeman must give Stengs playing time in upcoming friendlies!!
     
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  5. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Brilliant Dutch repped this.
  6. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    If Depay is fit for the Euro we have at least a chance. Without him we wont
     
  7. gabrielguilarte

    Feb 23, 2016
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    What’s the feeling here on Lammers. For me not the real deal yet and I rather build on Boadu since I believe has a higher ceiling and more all rounded skills but I’m curious with Lammers. Is he material for the next EC considering all our injuries lately?
     
  8. I actually want to suspend my judgement until the end of the season, as he just returned from a serious injury, so we donot know whether his current play is caused by lack of rythm or not having the skills in the first place.
     
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  9. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member+

    Jan 26, 2007
    Berghuis is surging, and is a force to be reckoned with. 3 goals and 4 assists in 5 matches since the start of the winter break. It'll be interesting to see how long he can sustain this excellent run. No doubt he will be in the squad for March friendlies, and probably will start too.

    Aside from Stengs (as I wrote above), Berghuis is the only other attacker in my book with playmaking ability. He is not as flashy as Stengs, but from output standpoint, he is money! A decent long-distance shooter too... something that Koeman's team is severely lacking.

    Incidentally, Stengs has gone ice cold... 1 goal and 1 assist in 16 matches in all competitions since his Oranje debut :x3::( Though, to his credits, he got back-to-back MoTM this past week according to the whoscored.com website.
     
  10. Both him and Boadu are going to surge up again coming sunday:)
     
  11. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member+

    Jan 26, 2007
    I have only watched 1-and-a-half of PSV match with Lammers in the line up... hard to judge, but my initial reaction is that he's closer to Siem or Luuk De Jong than Depay/Van Persie. He will need a crazy run with goals and fireworks to get into the Euro...

    I am actually more interested in Cody Gakpo... really like his combination of physicality (tall and strong), lightning speed and eye-on-goal. He can turn into a very special player. To me he is the one to watch in PSV team for the remainder of the season. Quietly he has registered 6 goals and 6 assists so far in Eredivisie, with 2 goals came in past couple matches. I think he will get to at least 10 and 10... which is phenomenal, as he started the season with a bench role. I am not sure about Euro... if I were a betting man, I'd wager that he would not make it (too soon for him) - that said, Oranje front line is awfully thin, so who knows.
     
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  12. Unfortunately he reminds me more of Locadia.
     
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  13. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I agree about the Gapko/Locadia comparison. I occasionally watch PSV matches on ESPN+ and have been underwhelmed by Gapko. I know Berghuis gets a lot of hate for some reason but I think he is a solid player who will always put in a good shift.
     
  14. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member+

    Jan 26, 2007
    Well, in that case Ghana can have Gakpo :p Wonder if they will step up the pursuit after "losing out" on Boadu.
     
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  15. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    #117 wilson00, Feb 25, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
    Berhguis was a flop in epl,came back to eredivise and is "surging"
    Promes was a flop in la liga, came back to eredivise and is "surging"

    If this is formula for surging and then this means locadia should also come back to eredivisie. isnt it, this opens up the doors for him both in NT like berghuis and promes and at the same time get his career back on track, again like promes and berghuis..hows does this sounds.

    this is ridiculous, and shouldnt be acccounted for if there are players who individual are better skilled but maybe playing for average teams in other competent leagues. El Ghazi for example. he may be playing for aston villa who are struggling for survival but if you look at his individual qualities that he brings especially at epl level, defies what berghuis is bringing at eredivsie and considering he flopped at watford where el ghazi is holding his own.

    Berghuis is not a NT level player, average at best but yet him "surging" at feyenoord, somehow gives him that tag of a heavyweight which he is not. if its the goals that being accounted for then this also makes Bryan Linssen a heavyweight as both are on 14 goals..yet Linssen has come nowhere to near to NT.just an argument point.

    on the other hand what if everybody starts coming back to eredivise.
     
  16. I think you're a bit aggressive in your post.
    However it's not about surging or not in the Eredivisie. It's about available players for certain positions. If you can name a Dutch player abroad who beats Berghuis in quality and performance, I'm interested to learn about him. These watchlist threads are about locating and following players for certain positions and discussing their strengths and weaknesses.
    The only thing you put on the table regarding Berghuis is your dislike, not well documented reasons why he shouldnot be considered.
    Anyway, you call Berghuis "average" and that's your right. However we confront you with facts and at the moment several soccer publications like Voetbal International/Telegraaf Telesport/AD Sportwereld call him the best player of the Eredivisie.
    You can be the opposite opinion, but support that with facts that underline what you claim. Just throwing in words like "average" doesnot work to convince in a discussion.
    You throw in Linssen to support your opinion on Berghuis being average. Yet the soccer publications donot put Linssen in the same category as Berghuis! Do all those writers/analysts in those media go by the name Feyenoordsoccerfan?

    upload_2020-2-26_1-58-43.png

    upload_2020-2-26_1-59-26.png

    And of course it's not only about goals to be considered better, it's also about the contribution to how the team plays. Since Advokaat made him captain the press noticed he takes his captaincy very serious and takes the team by the hand.
    By using Linssen as an example to talk down Berghuis his performance is a bit awkward as they play on different positions and also with completely different roles. I donot get how you can make a case for Linssen for the Orange team instead of Berghuis as they arenot the same in all aspects of their respective roles.
    If you want Berghuis to stay at home instead of the Orange shirt, come with suggestions that make sense, not with a suggestion that has all the earmarks of a desperate grab.
    So my suggestion is to show right wing players at home or abroad who are a better fit.



    By the way, Locadia was in the Eredivisie and stinking too often at PSV, while I hoped he would meet expectations. He somehow got a transfer abroad and again didnot deliver, so he moves to a league where the level is lower than what our lowflying Eredvisie clubs put on the pitch.
     
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  17. It sounds silly, but you're the only one making this case. Nobody in here claims this.
     
  18. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member+

    Jan 26, 2007
    Errr.. nobody called Berghuis a heavyweight (at least I didn't). I simply pointed to the fact that he has been on fire lately. Playing with confidence. Being in form is a good thing, and is an important prerequisite to play in the NT. Because nobody wants to see a bunch of clumsy, out-of-shape benchwarmers wearing Oranje shirts. That would be a disaster.

    I am 110% certain that if El Ghazi or Locadia or …. (fill in the blanks) started banging goals left and right - and carrying their clubs on their shoulders, they would have been in the conversation as well. The truth is that they simply are not performing. As simple as that.
     
  19. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    #122 wilson00, Feb 25, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
    "If you can name a Dutch player abroad who beats Berghuis in quality and performance, I'm interested to learn about him?"

    easily Kluivert . Even though injuries has kind of hindered his progress but he still has established himself as a regular player at Roma . he can EFFECTIVELY play both on the left and right compared to berghuis on the right and is better team player than Berghuis mainly due to his speed and when one and one situation. the biggest downfall of playing with wingers like berghuis is predictibility, exactly like what happened to Depay at Man United. when cutting inside is you strongest quality, what do you expect the defenders to do, Maybe the efficiency of defending in eredivisie isnt high , but on a bigger stage and with quality defender berhguis will easily get neutralized, again like what happened to depay. In addition to this the coverage area is also compromised when you are consistently cutting inside with no overlapping fullbacks.


    "The only thing you put on the table regarding Berghuis is your dislike, not well documented reasons why he shouldnot be considered"

    what has he proven in his 15 caps for NT. As for kluivert, no caps at NT level could be an point of argument.

    .
    "Anyway, you call Berghuis "average" and that's your right. However we confront you with facts and at the moment several soccer publications like Voetbal International/Telegraaf Telesport/AD Sportwereld call him the best player of the Eredivisie."

    this is like a toad in well. he only believes what he sees from the bottom . he has no idea what happening outside in the world.

    "You throw in Linssen to support your opinion on Berghuis being average. Yet the soccer publications donot put Linssen in the same category as Berghuis! Do all those writers/analysts in those media go by the name Feyenoordsoccerfan?"

    No they dont go by the name of Feyenoordsocerfan but vitesse is not feyenoord and will never get to walk on the red carpet . Van Dijk - Groningen, where were these so called soccer publications

    "By using Linssen as an example to talk down Berghuis his performance is a bit awkward as they play on different positions and also with completely different roles. I donot get how you can make a case for Linssen for the Orange team instead of Berghuis as they arenot the same in all aspects of their respective roles"

    both are wingers last time checked. unless something changed overnight.
     
  20. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    sorry who is a bench warmer?

    comparing locadia to El ghazi is absurd man. I follow villas games, even though he not on the level of Jack Grealish who is villa's best players but still he is easily one of their best players.

    any day el ghazi over Berghuis. again my argument point being if you survive in epl, you can survive any where. if you dont then .........
     
  21. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Im making it a case becuse thats what transpired. Berghuis flopped in epl.
     
  22. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    So did Serge Gnabry!:D
     

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