Wait a tick.... Gazza Saga not over just yet?

Chris Bergin is batting 0-for-1,000 on the Gazza thing.

Who's the player that's already been told that he's been traded? LOL

RS

 

Please tell me that Chris didn't write that Gazza would be in the draft next year!

Good grief, waste our Superdraft pick on a then 36 year old... sounds like a dream scenario for RH.

 

How can Namoff resist a trade or a demotion to the A-League or anything else?

I hope he told Hudson & Co. to $%$% off, though. I'd take 10 Namoffs over one Gazza. The kid worked his ass off during the off-season and has never been given a real chance.

 

If he does go to Dubai or Saudi Arabia, it will be interesting to see what happens when he goes out looking for a drink.

 

Yeah, me too. Then maybe they'd think he had an attitude problem and cut him for real.

 

You'd be amazed at how much alcohol is over there.

Anyway, I'm glad to see that that Gazza thing isn't dead yet. I had a feeling that when Etch started talking about how much DCU "need" Gazza it was b/c Etch was planing on retiring. I can understand his desire to head back to the home land to coach his National side but I was hoping he'd stick around DC and coach here. Oh well.

As for Namoff draging his heels on this. If he is told that he is going to be traded or relegated, so be it. Him bitching about it isn't going to increase his standing in the team. I agree he hasn't been given a fair shake but again, I trust that RH is on the right track,.... that is unless next season is just a miserable as this season.

TS.

 

Okay, let me see if I understand this. According to the MLS site:

"-- Discovery Players
A team may request that the league sign a U.S. or international player who is not currently under contract to MLS and assign the player to the requesting team. A team may add no more than two senior roster Discovery players by request in any calendar year, and shall have no more than four Discovery players on its senior roster at any time. Teams may trade Discovery players but may not trade Discovery player "spots."

Teams will have unlimited discovery opportunities for Developmental players."

Read all about it at:

http://www.mlsnet.com/content/02/mls0205guidelines.html

So.... DC United should have two additional Discovery allocations to tap into as of January 1, 2003. Fine. Being that Gazza's not fully match fit and would need at least two weeks to get a work visa, it might not make much sense to cut a player and/or trade someone (and probably overpay) for a discovery pick now, for a player who might only actually play in a half-dozen matches, when you could get him for "free" as of January 1. Plus, by then, you might know if Etch's latest retirement threat means anything.


My quandary is this:

DC United used its two Discovery allocations in 2002 for Milton Reyes (who's 29 and, therefore, a senior roster player) and Q2, who's only 19 and, by league rules, could have been signed (if I understand MLS rules correctly) as a developmental player. Instead, as the 7/22 MLS press-release states, Q2 was signed as a Discovery player and assigned Transitional International status.
(By the way, each team can have 4 Developmental players on the roster and, right now, DC has but one, Mapp).

Why didn't Hudson sign Q2 was a Developmental Discovery player, for which teams have "unlimited discovery opportunities," and used the second senior Discovery allocation for Gascoigne?

Let me take a shot at answering my own question: perhaps Developmental player contracts are limited to $X, where "X" is a very small number (like somewhere in the region of league minimum, $24,000). And maybe Q2 just wouldn't have come to MLS for "X." Maybe, as well, MLS wouldn't have allowed United to think creatively and, say, signed Q2 to a Developmental contract this year (opening the way to sign Gascoigne as a senior roster Discovery player now) and changed his status to Transitional International as of January 1 (with a new contract and higher salary). Maybe MLS said "fine" to this but Q2 said "no."

Maybe. Of course, there's no way of knowing for sure, this being MLS and all.

 

Are you saying that Namoff is at least 10% as good as Gazza? That's not much of a statement.

 

I think he said he would like to get some experiance first. So maybe he would coach here for a little while.

 

This is the relevant portion of that entire rule. DC United could not have traded Namoff to Cowlumbus to get a discovery pick. However, Cowlumbus could have signed Gazza and then traded him to DC for Namoff.

I'm starting to think that Gazza's business at home was to ask someone why he had to fly to Cowlumbus, Ohio in order to sign with DC United...

 

Thanks, I didn't pick that out. Nothing is simple in MLS, eh?

Still, doesn't answer why DC used a senior Discovery pick on a player (Q2) who could have been signed as a developmental player.

 

When MLS got rid of P-40 spots after last year, the remaining P-40 were granted roster exempt positions but counted as "Developmental Players". So Tino is technically a Developmental Player, so is Mapp.

Ludwig is signed to a developmental contract, which by definition, only pays like $500 or $1000 a month.

Since Q2 was 19, he was allowed to be roster exempt.

Also, Discovery Players must be out of contract. Q2 had to either be loaned or bought from his El Sal team.

Now the question is, I thought Chino was "grandfathered" in as a Transitional International from a Youth International since they got rid of that designation. If Q2 is a TI and is roster exempt, then why isn't Chino?

Also, if Q2 is roster exempt, why did we have to trade away Perez?

Ok, I have to go lie down now, this is making my head hurt.

 

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think TI's are roster exempt. They count on the roster, they just don't count as one of our 3 international roster spots (Senior Internationals).

 

Q2 is not roster exempt nor salary cap exempt. He only doesn't count as a Senior International. Chino is roster exempt and salary cap exempt until next year but like Q2 doesn't count as a Senior International. Neither will count as a Senior International until the year they turn 24 or 25 (I can't remember which. However old Nelsen because he became an SI this year.)

Geez people, it's not like these rules are as complicated as Byzantine Codified Law or anything!

 

OK, if Chino and Q2 are the same status -- TI, then why is Chino roster and salary cap exempt but Q2 not?
Is it because Chino was grandfathered over as a YI?

 

I believe that Transitional Internationals are not roster exept. They count against the roster and cap limits but do not count against the Senior International limit. That doesn't sound right, maybe I'm wrong then again I may be right, but in MLS who knows.

 

From the MLS site:

"Young international players will now and in the future either be Developmental
Players, who sign developmental contracts, or Transitional International players, who count against a team's senior roster and salary budget. "

and

"-- Developmental Players (domestic or international): Each team will have four
Developmental Players on its roster. The contracts for these players will not
count against a team's salary budget. In addition to Nike Project-40 signees, a
team's Developmental roster can only include players 23 years of age or younger during the season in question.

Note: Due to the elimination of Junior International status, two players (Jose
Alegria - D.C. United, and Josue Mayard - Dallas) will receive grandfathered
roster protection in 2002. Beginning in 2003 they must assume either
Transitional or Senior International status or sign Developmental contracts."

So that's why Alegria is roster exempt, while Q2 is not.

I'd not heard anywhere that Discovery players had to be out of contract. Do you mean they have to available on a free transfer? All the rules say is that they have to be players not currently under MLS contract. Or course, with MLS it's often what the rules DON'T say that matters most.

 

First, the P-40 spots haven't been done away with. See link at the bottom of this message. Mapp and Quaranta are listed as P-40 players on the MLS website roster for United.
http://www.mlsnet.com/teams/dc/roster.html

In addition to the "not out of contract" reason mentioned above (which I don't know about), Quintanilla's salary alone disqualifies him as a Developmental Player. From the MLS site: "Young international players will now and in the future either be Developmental Players, who sign developmental contracts, or Transitional International players, who count against a team's senior roster and salary budget."

Since Quintanilla didn't sign through P-40 (couldn't, of course, because he's not from the US) and didn't sign a "developmental contract" (with its extremely limited salary), then he isn't eligible to be one of the four players on our "Developmental Squad" which he'd have to be to count as an unlimited developmental discovery.

As I understand it, Transitional Internationals do count against the salary and roster limits (just not against our limit of Senior Internationals), while the now-defunct Junior Internationals didn't (at least) count against our roster. Hence Alegria's exemption this year only, during a limited "grandfather" period. Next year he'll have to be a TI (and count against the roster) unless he were to sign a developmental contract (unlikely he'd go for that salary, given his experience).

I note that MLS says that "Some international players younger than 25 can be considered Senior Internationals due to their contract structure," so at least it's good that our situation with Quintanilla doesn't qualify in that regard.

http://www.mlsnet.com/content/02/mls0205guidelines.html

 

Here's my 2 cents (to further muddle the situation).

1. Yes, MLS rules are overcomplicated (even though they don't approach ancient Byzantine whatever...). And, they also get bent. For instance, I think we were probably given a bit of favor with Quintanilla and even Gascoigne--I don't think those would have played out the same way 3 months ago.

2. There are TWO rosters to keep in mind. No-one is really "roster exempt". You are allowed 4 slots that can only be filled by P-40 players, developmental players. These 4 players don't count on your 18 man team roster or your cap but the most definitely aren't roster exempt b/c you're only allowed 4 and only P-40's and developmental guys go into those slots.

3. You also are limited in the number of foreign players on the roster. However, if you've got a green card (like Reyes), then you're not foreign (for roster purposes). If you're foreign but under a certain age (like Quintanilla) then you also don't count as foreign. Consequently, United can start a lineup of Rimando, Reyes, McKinley, Nelsen, Alegria, Alavanja, Quintanilla, Etcheverry, Moreno, Villegas, and Williams in which I believe on 2 of those players was born in the USA and 8 of those players are currently eligible to play for National teams OTHER than the USA yet we are considered as only have 2 senior foreign internationals (Nelsen and Moreno).

The reason I think we had the league leaning a bit on the rules is that I think they cut us some slack in the negotiations over Quintanilla (don't league rules prohibit players on-loan? Yet they allowed Donovan and now allow EQ). And the league pretty much left the decision on whether to sign Gascoigne or not up to United (again, less than SOP).

 

At least it would make the average age of our recent draft picks around 20.