Sure, Europeans aren't as saintly as they'd maybe like to believe (then again, we're not shy about crowing about our supposed moral superiority as the only bastion of civilization, freedom, and democracy in the world, either, despite all the evidence to the contrary) but to be fair to them, at least their facade outlasted ours for what little that's worth. I'm seriously surprised that with the massive wave of recent immigration of Muslims into Europe that there hasn't been more of a right-wing reaction over there. I mean, the American Right has been hating on Mexicans and other Spanish-speaking immigrant groups here for decades and there isn't nearly the difference in cultures between the Spanish-speaking immigrants and English-speaking "natives" (used strictly for lack of a better word) as there is between the Muslim immigrants in Europe and the "natives" there. And every time a scumbag like LePen or Haider surfaces in continental Europe with any more support than a pitiful marginalized minority, there is a popular reaction against him including mass marches in the streets whereas many Americans don't see anything wrong with, say, Jesse Helms, various anti-immigrant Propositions in California, or building "Berlin wall"-type barriers on the Mexican border. Anyway, any country that has just elected Dumbya as their leader has lost all rights to international smack talk against anyone but Libya and North Korea. OK, and Djabouti and 'U-r-gay' too because they have funny names.
So what's your ansswer then, bomb a country inhabited by muslims, support the war on terror (ha!)? Please do tell.
I'm starting to think you have links to Anne Frank sites stored on your computer. What a pathetic, sad man you are.
Mike is ruining all discussion. You may not be aware of this but Holland is in a state of shock. There's police everywhere, people have become totally irrational and paranoid, christian churches are under attack and so are muslim schools. This is a serious matter that deserves a grown-up discussion, and I'd like to ask Mike and BJ to keep their 'humour' out of it.
Perhaps you should start closer to home than pointing the finger elsewhere. And the same should be applied to other countries too. If you stick your nose in other people's business, you should not be surprised by people ready to hit it.
Mike, you are the kind of person that laughs at his own jokes whilst nobody else does apart from likeminded dumbfookwits. You contribute nothing to this world and I hope to god you are a Jaffa.
Well, if you aren't willing to lose your condescension when discussing our internal politics, I fail to see why we should lose our sense of "humour" when discussing yours.
I don't want this to turn into a discussion about me again. I already know you (and BJ and Mike) hate me, and I'm sure everybody else on this forum does too. So why don't you actually try and contribute to the discussion for a change.
The sad thing is that all it takes is a tiny few imbeciles start something like this. Even sadder is that, every once in a while, they succeed in polarizing their host society and causing greater violence as in North Ireland for example. A lot of people forget this fact and just stupidly project the actions of a few nutballs onto the great majority. I could be wrong, but it's not like the majority of Dutch are out burning either mosques or churches. My bet is that most people there -Christian, Muslim, secular, whatever- just want whoever is in the small groups who are doing this $hit to get caught and be locked up.
I'm off home. I hope upon my return tomorrow that I'll see some genuine discussion on: a) the beauty as well as the dangers of free speech b) the integration of muslims in Europe. Thanks in advance.
There have been many arrests, yes, and I'm pretty convinced it's a tiny minority that gets inolved in the church and mosque burning. What worries me the most is the fear the whole situation creates, and the fact that politicans are waiting on the sideline to benefit fully from that fear. I don't want some populist idiot claiming he's 'the voice of the people' as our next prime minister.
What Mike fails to mention is that at least the Dutch have so far hit the "right targets". We Americans are so dumb that Sikhs and Hindus have been attacked because they were mistaken for Muslims. Using violence tends to cultivate support against yourself in most parts of the world. Unfortunately, there are exceptions where violence has become institutionalized. And not all these areas are Muslim areas, as Northern Ireland showed. It's not as if most white people here cared one way or the other after he got blown away. Luckily, a minority of white liberals cared and they pushed for change while the Amercian Right was busy demonizing King as a communist. Google "FALN". Oh hell, just go here: http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/puertorico/faln-chronology.htm
Also be wary of some draft dodger being in charge of the most powerful army in the world...god you're a prick!
I don't "hate you". You're not nearly important enough. I find you highly annoying, however, when the subject is politics. Its a ********ing wind up. Grow up! If you the Dutch didn't take themselves so seriously, Segroves would never have hooked the lot of you.
funny how some people so resistant to stereotyping throw 'em around at nearly everyone else... and usually just 'coz