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Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by washtenaw, Aug 25, 2007.
Solid goal, hopefully he can bring himself back, he hasn't looked like his usual self recently, when he is on his game he can play at any level
I think Dempsey could wind up being our most effective attacker both by resume in Europe, but also leading into the World Cup. Because of his age (and Altidore only being 17, but coming on strong), Clint is the closest to showing a 'total package' of all of our 'talents'.
He keeps rising to the occasion (when knocked down), and that makes me believe he will have a good career in Europe if he wants it.
He looks dangerous- adding all his minutes together. He creates a lot, and has fundamentally a lot of weapons- pace, ability to beat guys 1 v1, willingness to take them on, guile, strength in the box, heading, and (most importantly?) knows how to get to the right spots in front of goals.
He's in the sweet spot of his career between now and the Cup- and he looks really well-suited to the English game vs. many of our other players (who are ???)
Although I think Altidore will eventually have a great run in Europe, I think Clint may come on really strong this year. I think the miss vs. Boro was just the catalyst to get him fired up. And he plays really well when fired up.
Look these last 3 games (in which he only really played around 190 minutes, more or less).
- Had header off corner, came close to burying
- Left footed effort after nice combination dragged wide
- Got loose in middle of box, a good strong 1/2 chance.
- Great knockdown for Healy
- Missed goal with goalie steaming at him, but room to spare
- Had the flick header in which Healy really scored, but was disallowed
- Part of combination that leads to nice chance early
- The goal, a blast- nice forethought (movement)
- Great dummy sets up shot off the post for a teammate
- Great header that somehow gets saved.
He's being very effective when in there- creating chances. If you go back and include his stint vs. 'Pool last year- he's shown he can be a force at this level. (all these mentioned chances, 2 goals, several near assists)
Let's see where it goes from here, but I see no reason NOT to be optimistic. He's good enough. Really a question of him pushing himself consistently. Maybe the team will hurt him some, but he could still score/assist a lot on a relegation-threatened side, as many have done in the past.
they took down the video
they took it down, is there some where else where we can see it.
What position was he playing this game?
i actually missed that first goal... didn't get my feed working until about 10 - 11 minutes in... that was an excellent finish... the keeper came out, challenged low and stretched his body out so he couldn't really sidefoot it to a corner... was a strong, high, accurate finish... unfortunately we couldn't pull more out of our asses
You don't say anything I don't agree with in evaluating Clint and I am a huge fan of his. But I can't help but think that we over rate him significantly.
Now, let me stress again: I love this kid. But I think what we really love is his effort and drive. He gets more out of his talent than he really should. Is he really more talented, for example, than Pat Noonon? Well, yes, he is but it is really that drive and determination that separates them and endears Dempsey to US fans.
His goals seem to me to usually be more opportunistic than the result of his own creation. He (usually) finishes aggressively, although (like everyone else he can have his off games, like the miss against Sweden). He can do some good work on the flank and the edges of the box. He is a very good player, a great guy to have around, has heart and once beat up Joey Franchino. I mean, how can you not like him?
Comparing him to everyone's favorite whipping boy, Landon Donovan, is interesting. Even a Donovan fan like me wishes LD had the drive and determination to succeed that Dempsey has. But Donovan either at the right side or at forward simply does so much more than Dempsey does. Donovan can take the ball from the middle of the field, run at defenders and create far more than Dempsey does. Donovan just seems to do more. When Dempsey cleared a ball out of the Fulham area on Saturday, it struck me how rarely I have seen that while you see Donovan make that sort of play all the time. A fair comparison of the two would give Donovan the edge in speed, vision, two-way play, creation, with Dempsey the edge in drive and finishing. (Even then, Donovan can go through phases where he is a brilliant finisher.)
However, if he is our top choice in 2010 I am going to be very worried about the Nats. I would argue that RIGHT NOW Josy Altidore is already a better forward - or would be after a few games with the Senior side. Josy is stronger, has a cannon shot, can hold up play and makes intelligent distributions in the area if the shot is not there. (Contrast with EJ, who last made a positive pass in the U8s). I could see him paired with Donovan, who would know how to get him the ball, supported by Beasley and Dempsey on the outside and some combination of Benny, Bradley or Clark in the middle. (Assuming that Freddy doesn't progress substaintally.) In fact, I felt watching the Sweden game that a mature Altidore would have made the difference in the game - a shooter who can match the physical play of the defenders. (Come to think of it, not having Ching for that game is probably a bigger deal than most of us imagine just on the physical side.)
I'm trying to sort my thoughts out in this post and will listen to arguments. I would happily be wrong. (Heck, I once thought McBride was just a goal poacher with a head and no foot. He sure became more than that.) But I just don't see him being more than a somewhat better version of what he is now: a determined, opportunistic finisher. A great piece of the puzzle. But not a guy who will be a "force".
I have not watched Dempsey for to long so I may be wrong, but I completely disagree, Dempsey's one fault in my opinion at times is his effort his technical ability is above Donovan's I feel, and it is Donovan's effort that usually surpasses Dempsey not his skill, Dempseys creativity and skill on the ball is very high-level, and if he brings the effort he absolutely is someone I would count on at any level. I still feel he is best suited as a two-way centermidfielder though.
Well, we couldn't disagree more. Dempsey's technical ability is no where near Donovan's. I don't think it's even close.
Dempsey does disappear sometimes. My comments about his drive are more his overall ambition.
I almost didn't do the DOnovan/Dempsey comparison, however, because I knew it would side track the discussion, which is really about trying to get a fix on Dempsey's true potential. The poser I quoted said he could be "a force". I guess it comes down to how you define that. If by a force you mean on a level with Christiano Ronaldo, then no. If it means a good player in the EPL, then okay. He can do that. If we think that translates into being our first choice forward in 2010...then I'm worried.
I don't see how you can rate his technical ability so low it just doesn't make sense to me. Dempsey has some big time technical skills. That is the whole reason his position changed to a withdrawn forward is because of his technical ability and creativity (also because he can score goals), donovan's skills are good also but it is his workrate, pace and soccer IQ that makes him effective (along with a good striking ability with either foot) In my opinion dempsey's technical skills are second to none in our pool, donovan and feilhaber are a close call. He brings a flare to the game that is not often seen in a usa shirt along with a willing ness to take defenders on which is something I am very happy to see from someone on our team, and I would be shocked if he isn't one of our XI come 2010 (no particular position)
I'm not rating it 'so low'. I'm rating it lower than Donovan's.
I do agree that Demspey has flair. But flair and technical superiority are not necessarily the same thing.
Fox Soccer has all the week's highlights (although, it's absurd for them to offer only short low-res clips) for another 4 days.
hmmmm, technical ability? Pretty tough to make an objective case but Demps does have goals against Ghana, Poland, England, Liverpool, and Villa over the past two years which surpasses what LD has done.
As far as Demp's potential, I don't see any reason he can't make a bigger impact than a McBride or Reyna provided he's used correctly.
Dempsey may be more creative and unpredictable than Donovan, but Donovan's technical skills are easily the best in our pool. Dempsey looks good once he has the ball at his feet, but often needs to take a touch to settle the ball... Donovan, meanwhile, seems a lot more assured with his first touch, and does just enough to make a good pass or run without necessarily resorting to flashy moves.
Donovan is a great player don't get me wrong I agree he is our best player but his touch is not the best on occasion. This is why he is far superior and ten times as dangerous in open space than in tight areas. He is very good at beating people on the run though which improves his technical ability and why he is better in open space if you give him time and space to settle the ball and run at you he will murder you if you close him down quickly his touch is lacking at times and resorts to a back pass often.(nothing against him just making a point) where as dempsey is quicker to settle the ball and is good in tight spaces but is not quite as dangerous as donovan in open space because he doesn't have the pace of donovan, for these reasons I agree with switching Donovan and Dempsey with putting Donovan on the right flank and Dempsey as the withdrawn forward. By the way what position did Dempsey play in this game vs aston villa?