Re: Vanney to DC?! One could make a similar case for Erpen "marking" Peterson, by standing 6 feet away and doing nothing on their goal. At least Vanney was putting forth an effort to stop us.
Re: Vanney to DC?! And he was succesful? In what way? One has to give credit on the goal to Peterson, it was a very opportunistic goal and very well taken header.
Re: Vanney to DC?! Look, I admire the loyality that some of you are showing for a DC United player. But here's the deal: as good as Facundo was playing this season after the shift to central defense (and I had a couple of games where I thought he was our best guy back there), he's not an MLS all-star this year: not even close. Although he's got better potential, the reality is that just in the East, you'd take Mendes, Conrad, Parkhurst, and maybe Brennan (who's really a sweeper not a central defender) over him easily. Be loyal to the guy for respecting the badge and fighting for the uniform and being a great teammate and giving it all he had. But it's not like we just gave up Eddie Pope or Ryan Nelson. We gave up a guy who even at his best this season wasn't among the top 8 CB's in MLS. And this is with a defense that has one shutout this season so it's not as if we can argue that he's the glue that holds it all together. Maybe Vanney will be a great fit, maybe he won't. But I'm absolutely clear that this trade wasn't about trading one player for a better player. Instead, it's about trading a guy with some talent (Erpen) but who had trouble doing what the coaches wanted him to do for a guy that may or may not be better individually but our team has been looking at closely for 3 years and feels is a better fit. Since the end of last season, TFKAM wrote the book about what to do against our backline when we had the ball: provide high pressure, don't let Boswell see the ball, count on Namoff and Erpen to make bad decisions under pressure. The ways that teams play us are to pressure Gomez and force us to make slower transitions (and this starts with our backline). If Vanney results in better distribution out of the back (and makes it harder for teams to deny Boswell the ball) than I think we score more goals. I also agree that there are a bunch of teams I wouldn't want to see Vanney playing the left back in a 352 (um...like against TFKAM's speedster Dane Richards for one), he could handle it against half the teams in the league (especially if he's a stay-at-home defender) and that gives us the option of a 442 or 352 on the fly. In fact, we could push Gros to left mid, play a 352 and then have him drop back and it becomes a 442. So it's not a bad thing. Don't evaluate this on individual talent. Evaluate it on fit for the team. I hated to see us trade Petke but it was best for the team. Boswell made Erpen either have to play out of position or redundant. Vanney gives us a couple of things: --a left-sided defender with distribution --a centerback organizer Neither is a bad thing.
Re: Vanney to DC?! Vanney had Emilio, Fred, Addlery and Gomez bearing down on him last night. Erpen had Jacob Peterson and..... Erpen still managed to make Peterson look like the second coming of Thierry Henry.
Re: Vanney to DC?! My point is is that what you saw from Vanney last night was an anamoly (sp?) as to what we saw from Erpen pretty much is a dead lock certainty 15 times a season. Yes, that play in particular was very bad on Vanney's part, but in all honesty I have to wrack my brain to come up with even one or two similar type plays from Vanney over the entirety of his career.
Re: Vanney to DC?! dumbest move ever We invested 2 years on a guy who is good and still has great upside to then get an older, slower, more expensive, shorter term player on his way out and not familiar with our system or players. I am sure other South American players are royally pissed with DCUnited front office right now. Probably even more upset than me (if that is possible) I wonder if there is more to the story... like SI considerations or coach-player issues. Otherwise, this makes no sense to me. Did I mention I am not a fan of Vanney?
Re: Vanney to DC?! mehh i'll still miss Erpen for that goal against the pink cows. i wish him well in Colorado. Hope Vanney doesnt die on us tho.
Re: Vanney to DC?! I HAVE ABSOLUTLY NO COMMENT ON THE TRADE! im so pissed off right now that i really could care less about anything else. dcu will be sorry they did this!
Re: Vanney to DC?! DCU continues its pattern of putting veteran players on its radar for several years before actually signing that player: * Gomez - scouted by Ray Hudson and DCU while playing for Independiente in 2002, later signed in 2004 by DCU Then: * Emilio - scouted by DCU in 2004, later signed in 2007 by DCU http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A7063-2004Jul22?language=printer Now: * Vanney - talked in 2005 as a potential Nelsen replacement (which eventually was filled by Erpen who ironically is the player who was sent to the Rapids to get Vanney) but were edged out by FCD being higher on the allocation list food chain, later acquired in 2007 by DCU http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A24370-2005Feb14.html Based on this trend, we can expect DCU to sign the Polish National Teamer Bosacki in 2009 since they probably first saw him in the 2006 WC and then scouted him in Polish League play earlier this year. With the long time that these players were on DCU's radar, the Front Office can not be called impulse buyers.
Re: Vanney to DC?! I hate to harp on this, but let me just finish this by saying this : Did you watch Vanney play for the Nats? There is a reason he has been bounced around MLS. Whoever stated that this move gives DC United a better chance of winning MLS Cup this year has delusions of grandeur! But let me say this, I will root for Vanney. I hope he makes DC United a better team. I just don't see right now, hopefully as you pointed out in a previous post, in a few months from now I will feel better about this trade. Vamos United!
Re: Vanney to DC?! I'm not prepared to say that Vanney is a better player than Erpen. I definitely don't think that Vanney is worth $235k. But those aren't the questions. This is a team game. I suspect that Vanney will do a better job filling our needs and fitting our defensive scheme than Erpen will. We don't need center backs to go forward. We do need good distribution out of the back. We do need good positioning and good communication. I think those are all things that Vanney brings. I wish he brought speed--obviously he doesn't. I wish he had a reputation as an iron-man: I don't think he's as good as Erpen in that regard. I think he's more disciplined as a player and is likely to pick up fewer foolish fouls (though a little research about average cards per 90 minutes could verify that). None of this means he's a better individual player than Erpen. But what each player brings is different.
Re: Vanney to DC?! Seriously, I don't need to post anymore. If there's anyone who can still rep this guy, do so. I'm not thrilled with losing Facundo (some may be shocked) because I love seeing players make progress. However, I think the other way to look at it is this: Who are the other SI's and would you rather get rid of one of them instead of Erpen? It's a move for next year, or for another player. If it's not, I dunno what to make of it-- and either way, I still think winning MLS Cup this year is more important than winning it next year, so every move should be made with that goal in mind-- IMO.
Re: Vanney to DC?! Based on the reaction to this trade and trades in the offseason, I've concluded that Rimando, Eski, and Erpen are DC's best ever goalkeeper, forward, and defender (respectively). Man, that 2005 team must have been the absolute shit and wrecked shop all year. Oh, wait. Those are players who were popular but inevitably came up short in terms of consistent play. Carry on then and continue bashing a player who we haven't even seen play in our system while trying to rationalize keeping a player who has actually gotten worse over the course of three seasons. I'll just remember those fond memories of potential badasses Quaranta, Adu, and Eski who all left before they could show their true worth.
Re: Vanney to DC?! Ah, but is he worth Erpen's salary? Goff reports that the teams swapped players but not salaries.
Re: Vanney to DC?! Exactly. Noone answered my question about Erpen being worth well over $200,000. DC upgraded experience and stability without changing the salary. Regardless of if you think Vanney was originally over paid, DC is getting him at 50% of that. I for one thought that Erpen was generously overpaid (despite his potential--Quarantaesque) and laugh at Colorado for taking him on at almost max salary. Really. Facundo Erpen is almost a max salary player. Think about that for a second and ask yourself who got the better end of this deal. Not you, Ray, but people who are questioning it.
Re: Vanney to DC?! Well Rimando was hurt the first couple games of last year and would have continued to be the starter if it wasn't for Perkins's great performances. I'm not sure if consistancy played a role in his fall with United
Re: Vanney to DC?! The answer to that question is entirely about fit. And if Greg Vanney is a good fit--if he can play the role that Tom Soehn wants him to play, than he can win us a championship. Here's what this team cannot do right now. We can't shut people down. We've clearly got a strong GK. Maybe there is someone out there you prefer more but Perkins is now at the point where every game he makes one save of a ball that should have gone in. And he's not making the dumb, team-confidence-blowing stuff that Rimando was doing with RSL earlier and Troy did against Chivas. We're not the most prolific attacking team out there. But clearly Emilio is untracked. Give the man service and he scores. And others have now gotten in the act. Gomez' performance I'm convinced is now entirely about wide play--if we get good wide play that stretches the field or an opposing central mid that doesn't mark him closely and he's the Gomez of last year--an impact player. We don't have the best offense in MLS or the best goal scorer but we're good and starting to get consistent. But what we haven't had all season is a defense that shuts people down. Instead, we have a defense that makes sloppy errors. I'm not just talking brain farts or blaming it all on Erpen--sometimes he's been our best defender. I'm just saying that right now (prior to the trade) if we have the pieces to get it done defensively. But if we can tighten up on defense and play sharper and be more organized and get everyone on the same page--than I think (assuming we stay healthy--a key assumption) can get it done defensively. Can Vanney do that for us? Don't know but his experience and his organizational abilities should help. Last of all, right now we have Gomez, Emilio and Fred as SI's. Let's suppose we add a DP either this year or in the offseason. Erpen would have been an SI for 2008. So what do you do? Waive Fred or Emilio? Chose not to resign Gomez? Forego a DP? We'll see how Vanney works out and if he's a good fit. But for right now, it allows us to get something for Erpen who likely would have been a casualty by the end of the season. It also forces teams to make another adjustment on how to play us. The 442 was one adjustment. But people are still operating a game plan that says: pressure the backline to delay transitions or force errors and mug Gomez to shut down their offense. If we play wide we frustrate the "mug Gomez" strategy. If we do things differently on our backline or do a better job distributing the ball from the back than we force teams (TFKAM in particular) to rethink how they play us.
Re: Vanney to DC?! I'm hoping this will be the final piece to the championship puzzle. We needed a strong, experienced, vocal leader in the back, and we got him. Plus his distribution skills won't hurt at all. If Gomez is being marked out of the game, then Vanney can just skip that whole phase and give a ball to Emilio on a platter.
Re: Vanney to DC?! I agree that these are the main factors (1. Defensive leadership/organization/mentoring to hopefully lessen the defensive sloppiness and 2. Erpen's pending SYI->SI status) in the trade. In terms of the defensive leadership/mentoring, we are lacking there. We have a converted mid in Gros learning how to play LB and Boswell playing centerback (who likely moves from LCB to RCB) whose season to date has not been what one would expect from the reigning MLS Defender of the Year - Vanney has experience at LB and CB and with him slated to play LCB between those two players - it should allow him to provide some mentoring to both of them (and there would not be the language barriers that a CB like Bosacki might have there). In terms of the sloppy play in the back this year, there is plenty of blame to spread between Erpen, Boswell and Gros (in my opinion, Namoff has been the best of the bunch). The SI flexibility likely comes into play in 2008. Unless Gros has a meltdown at LB which forces DCU to move Vanney there and bring in a foreign CB, I would bet against DCU bringing in a SI of note in 2007.
Re: Vanney to DC?! My 14 year old daughter is mighty pissed at Kevin Payne right now. I hope this works, she and I are DCU fans first and foremost. However, I grew very fond of Erpfu, probably because so many bashed him for faults that all of the other defenders exhibited as well. For example, many on this board fault Erpen's marking of Peterson last night as causing Colorado's goal. Maybe -- but I remember watching the ball float into the 18, Gros ball watch and allow the Colorado player to collect the ball unmolested and whip in a quick cross to Peterson. Now, who was at fault on the goal? Peterson can't head in the cross that is defended properly by the man supposedly marking the the player making the cross. Let's hope Vanney has fewer brain farts (i.e., swatting away the ball with his hand in the box) than Erpen. I hope this turns out to be a Roy for Roy trade, not an Allshite for Roy trade.
Re: Vanney to DC?! Thanks to the trade we get the following: In 2007: A steadier defender for the same price as Erpen (since the Rapids pay Vanney's pay differential). The possibility of improving our wide play, which is one of our weaknesses. An immediate YI vacancy. In 2008: A steadier defender for whatever salary we can negotiate with him, but which surely will be less than $235k. An SI slot that otherwise would have been filled by Erpen.
Re: Vanney to DC?! People, we need to focus on the real issue here resulting from this trade. Our free team photo posters are out of date less than 1 day after we got them.
Re: Vanney to DC?! So anyone have any info on Vagner George Santana da Silva? All I could find is his physical stats online (Vagner) - 1,90m - 73kg - 7/1/1989 Big kid, almost 6'3"