Well the latest is that now Va Tech and Miami will be invited into the ACC and that 'Cuse and BC will be left out. I think that we all know what this means. Good ole Ollie Weiss now becomes an ACC Head Coach. I absolutely cannot wait. I will most certainly have to take the weekend off and travel to the first UNC v Va Tech conference game. What could be better than a teacher-pupil confrontation every year in the conference? Of course, I'm sure this will start the debate to who was truly the teacher and who was truly the pupil. Guess we will have to wait at least one more season....
That was the first thing I thought of when I heard the news which pretty much shows what a total soccer dork I am. Even though the Hokies don't increase the ACC's TV presence, it really was the right move to bring them in instead of BC and Syracuse. Obviously it isn't as good for the soccer programs in terms of strengthening the ACC as a soccer power but most reasonable people will agree that it didn't really need that strengthening anyway. As much as I would have liked to have seen BC and 'Cuse in the ACC from a competitive standpoint, the bottom line is that it didn't make any geographical sense. Those schools are just too far away from the ACC teams, particularly the ones south of the Outer Banks, which is most of them. Most non-revenue teams don't fly to many conference games and going to BC and 'Cuse would have either required a hideously long bus ride or blow a lot of money they don't have on a plane trip and hotel (rooms in Blacksburg are WAAAAAYYY cheaper than they are in Boston, which is the most expensive hotel city I've ever stayed in) costs. Plus you just get another natural geographic rival in Va. Tech that you didn't get with Syracuse and Boston Colleg and it's easier for the fans of both teams - not to mention the ones up north - to make the road games now. As for BC an 'Cuse, from a soccer perspective, I'm happy as the Big East is a great soccer conference and losing those two teams along with Miami likley would have brought about an end to the conference and I'd hate to see soccer rivalries between UConn, Rutgers, St. John's, Seton Hall and BC and 'Cuse broken up. Now this stays intact. That said, the issue of expansion likely isn't done. The ACC really wants a 12th team so they can have a football championship game so they will still be looking to add someone. Odds are it won't be from a team that isn't georgraphically contiguous so that doesn't leave many choices - I'm guessing West Virginia, Louisville, Memphis, UAB and Pitt are the most likely candidates. I don't see them trying to lure an SEC school though if they did South Carolina would make the most sense though there is still a lot of animoisty towards the 'Cocks for leaving the ACC back in the 70s. Of course, if it helps the ACC make money, I'm sure a lot would be forgiven. Back to soccer, this means the ACC tournament just got busier and the team that wins the regular season just lost its bye. That first day is now a quadruple header - woo-hoo! In terms of Tech soccer, this is great for them, simply great. To add these schools in their region as conference rivals will only help their recruiting. They already have a pretty good natural base in the state of Virginia - UVa will now have to work a little harder to get the top players in the state - and Oliver has great ties in North Carolina. I think it's a matter of time before he makes VaTech into a very good program. A more immediate question - right now, could the Hokies beat NC State? And if they do, will Lee Fowler care that his once-proud program has slipped to eighth in the ACC?
I come from a Big East family. I went to St. John's undergard and SU law. Why wife is a Georgetown grad, and my mother in law a UConn grad. We are all very happy that Syraciuse is statying. It hurts some in football, but with UConn going IA in football (and given the way people in CT act, it will be a big thing in a few years), the football conference will survive if they pick up say Louisville. But every SU alum I know (and I know alot) are happy.
a different take Being in a good soccer conference has done nothing to help ECU and UNC-Wilmington. Both schools hired good young coaches, but kids shy away from no conference wins (ok VaT will have State) and losing records. The key is if VT gives soccer additional support, read money. If not, playing in the ACC with instate VA kids passed over by other good programs is a tough task. Even for a pretty talented young coach with strong connections. As for the Elmar - Oliver matchup. Man did we hear alot about Oliver's influence, positive, on the Heels while he was at UNC. I personally do not think it was a "better than" issue. To me it was more of two guy's strenght's matching up to form a really strong coaching team. Elmar may not be the perfect coach, but he is pretty darn strong. Still, it will be fun to watch.
Tech to ACC I'm pleased as can be about the Tech to the ACC move for a variety of reasons and soccer is near the top. Sandon, I am with you 100%. This will be great for Tech soccer. I think you'll see Oliver make this program into a consistent winner within two or three years. They already have a great class coming in this year; half the Richmond Strikers U-18 side seems to be coming here this year. Tech's women's side should improve as well; they have a new young coach (Kelly Cagle, ex- Atlanta WUSA player) and now can recruit as an ACC school as well. As a Tech Ph.D student and Hollins professor, I'm looking forward to seeing Tech games in the ACC soon! JB
I hear you Eneste. I do feel bad for WVU, wish they were coming with us. I know the Hokie football team will not look forward to going up to Morgantown this year. It could be a true socceresque derby Boca/River type violent atmosphere for the football game. I do not feel too bad for leaving the Big East. The conference screwed Tech over regarding entry into all sports, making us pay $2.5 million as an "entry fee" and not allowing us to share in basketball revenue for three years. This after we carried the football side of the league during the late 90's when Miami was still on probation.
I'm surprised the ACC didn't pursue WVU since it would have given them a 12th team and some natural geographic rivalries. While I don't know if it will be WVU per se, I don't think this issue is dead.
The ACC didn't even want VT, but they had to go that route thanks to the politicians in the state of Virginia. The ACC certainly doesn't want West Virginia, that's for sure. They probably won't go after another Big East to round it out with 12 teams.
News Today This mornings Atlanta-Journal Constitution reports: http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/0603/26tony.html Basicly, the rumors are that the ACC has left the 12th spot for Notre Dame should they become interested. The thing is that they don't want to play a full football conference schedule so they can continue to play all the teams that they normally play. They already have their own TV deal and bowl deal, so I'm not sure what the ACC is offering them as incentive, but it's gotta be something. So, this, if it were to happen, would be a good move for soccer. You get another strong team in the conference- a team that would be able to come in and immediately compete. I would imagine every other year coaches would need an increase n their budgets for a trip to South Bend, though. It would also give that 1st place team, their bye in the ACC tournament unless the format was to change. Should be just leave NCSU out every year so we have an even number? I hope I don't get banished from the boards for bringing this up, but adding ND would also spice up the women's side of things a bit as well. Should be interesting to follow, but I imagine something will break by the end of the month...
The ACC said there were 2 schools they absolutely didn't want (not publicly of course). One was WVU, the other was Va Tech. The big thing with Va Tech was academic admission standards. If you've had a pulse in the past 48 hours you can get in Va Tech and most of the ACC presidents were against it for that reason. Obviously, the sound of money changed their minds on that one. Not sure what the knock on WVU was, but I know Pitt and UConn were rumored, but never WVU.
Geographically adding Tech and Miami makes sense. But besides that Tech offers NOTHING to the ACC unless a 12th team is added.
Fixxer Posted: {The ACC said there were 2 schools they absolutely didn't want (not publicly of course). One was WVU, the other was Va Tech. The big thing with Va Tech was academic admission standards. If you've had a pulse in the past 48 hours you can get in Va Tech and most of the ACC presidents were against it for that reason. Obviously, the sound of money changed their minds on that one. Not sure what the knock on WVU was, but I know Pitt and UConn were rumored, but never WVU.} Sorry, mate, you are way off there. Tech is rated higher academically than ACC schools Maryland, FSU, Clemson, and NCSU and is just behind Ga Tech. That is a pretty idiotic statement you made there. Not intending to flame, but that statement you made is simply not true. Tech is one of the top ten engineering schools in the nation and is ranked by US News and World Report as one of the Top 30 public universities in the nation (ahead of the schools I listed). Granted, we stink at mens hoops and have crappy soccer at the moment. We had minimal $ to improve our olympic sports-watch our soccer teams take off as a result of the move.
It's all about the TV market. WVU and VT have the smallest markets in the Big East. WVU and VT fans travel very well but that's about the only thing going for them other than geography. The governor of Virginia told UVA that sports funding would be cut unless VT was added otherwise the ACC would have no interest in VT. JBohland: The police presence will be intense. The VT game will be ugly because they will be seen as traitors but hopefully because the schools are alike and many of the kids know each other it won't be that bad. I have a feeling that the Miami game will be worse. Especially if the Big East doesn't have a satisfactory recovery plan by next year. edit: I know that the VT engineering school is tough to get into.
Tech offers one thing, Miami. By the way, hell will freeze over before Notre Dame joins the ACC. They are already a Big East member in every thing but football.
Academic rank has nothing to do with admission standards, mate. Maybe I should have clarified my statement by saying ATHLETIC admission at Va Tech are a joke, I have no idea what their standards are for a general population. I know, for fact, that Va Tech gets a lot of good players simply b/c they can't get in anywhere else. This is not information that I dreamed up, it is information that I was given from people DIRECTLY involved with the football program at Va Tech. I verified it through an ACC source that monitors the entire conference, it's admission standards, graduation rates, etc. A number of ACC Presidents also voiced concerns about Va Tech's admission standards, or should I say athletic admission standards. Next, don't believe everything you read in these magazines, mate. The one thing that I have learned in all the statistics classes that I have taken is that you can take information and twist it to say anything you want. I guarantee you I can find "publications" on engineering schools that doesn't have Va Tech in the top 20, so your statements on that are hollow to me.
*I don't see Notre Dame joining the ACC. It just doesn't offer them anything. The fact is that they don't need a conference to generate revenue so why would they join one to split it. It would be fun to see Bobby Clark, my favorite college coach, going against the other eight ACC soccer schools every year, however. But, I don't see that ever happening. *Fixxer and I are usually in agreement about most things but I gotta call him out on Va. Tech's academics. Its engineering school is among the best public ones in the country and very competitive to get into - harder than UVa's, and you know I have to bite my tongue to admit that - and most of their technical programs are also hard to get into. Now, getting into Tech's liberal arts programs probably doesn't take too much. Having said all that, all dirt roads still, and always will, lead to Blacksburg! *I certainly understand why the ACC wouldn't want WVU as their academic standards are the type that Fixxer described and as others pointed out, it's a tiny TV market. My only reason for suggesting it was geographic. *I still think BC is in play. I know the ACC really wanted the New England TV markets and I know Miami wanted a Northeast school because they have so many alumni in that area. I think Miami will go back and bargain to get them in. I know Syracuse was always on the fence about leaving - particularly Jim Boeheim, who has a lot of juice after winning it all this year - but BC seemed more enthusiastic. Having said that, Donna Shalala is reportedly really tight with Syracuse's president so she may be able to have some influence there. *The whole expansion thing doesn't make economic sense without a 12th team to have a football championship game. While Miami and Tech will allow for a bigger TV contract for football, it won't be enough to make each school's cut of the tie bigger. Duke and Wake Forest just went from splitting money up nine ways to 11 ways and even at NC State you can figure out that that is less money per school. Yes, the TV contract and bowl money the new school's bring in will create more revenue for the conference but without the football championship game - which can be about 10 million per year - it won't be enough. *So, someone else is still in play and if it ain't BC or Notre Dame or WVU, whose it gonna be? The Big East is reportedly hot and heavy over Louisville but that makes sense for the ACC as well and I'm sure they'd listed over there. I doubt any of the SEC schools would leave and I don't know if the ACC would take South Carolina back. But if they took Va. Tech against their will, they may be willing to forgive the 'Cocks. Man, that would be cool from a soccer perspective. *Finally, as a UVa guy and a Virginia resident, I have to say that I am shocked that UVa's president capitulated to the governor and I'm amazed that Mark Warner had enough juice to bully the school into getting Tech in. I guess things are tighter, budget-wise, for public schools than I realized and UVa couldn't risk getting on the governor's bad side when the budget was handing out money. *BTW, anyone think the ACC wouldn't take Penn State if it could get it? Geographically, PSU has always been kind of out of place in the Big Ten and because they've only been in the conference a few years, they wouldn't be screwing with all kinds of tradition by pulling out and moving to the ACC.
Getting this back to soccer, this nugget from the AJC is certainly good news for Oliver's program. long discussion ensued over Virginia Tech and the fact that it would have to increase its financial commitment to Olympic sports to become a member. Once the presidents were satisfied, Virginia Tech was voted in. "Olympic sports" is a polite term the ACC uses for "non-revenue" sports.
I'm starting to disagree with this. Notre Dame, at some point I think, will need to join a conference. They never have had that need, but a couple of below average football seasons could change that very quickly, but these things are hard to predict. I really don't think it matters if all their other sports are in the Big East or not, b/c Notre Dame is football and they are going to do what football wants to so. That's the money maker, so that is the decision maker. Who knows? I do know that where there is smoke, there is fire. I do know that it is being discussed and that ND is taking a proactive role in trying to gather information about what there options might be in joining the ACC. It's on the drawing boards so somebody somewhere is considering it...
The problem with Notre Dame is that they are NO WHERE near the Atlantic Coast. Still they would get the ACC one heckuva football championship game. Women's football that is...
I'd love to see this. Geographically it's a better fit than BC, 'Cuse, or Notre Dame. They also offer some of that football lore that people love. The great thing about Notre Dame is that they have national appeal as far as a TV market goes and while PSU is not at that level, I still believe they have a tremendous amount of national TV appeal. I'd love that 12th team to be ND, but I want it to be on the ACC's terms and not ND's. I think PSU is a better fit.
TV Markets? If you mean the direct area of Blacksburg/Christiansburg/Roanoke, I guess it isn't a big market. But, in the DC-Metro area, by doing an informal survey of college stickers on cars, I think you would have quite a divided market if PSU, VT, UVA, and MD all played their football games at the same time. The ACC seems a natural progression for VT. Academically, MD and VT share the veterinary school. This past year I believe VT established a working relationship with Duke in biomedical engineering.
Fixxer- We may have to agree to disagree on the quality of the school and how this should be measured. I will say that my father is the former provost of Virginia Tech, so you could say that I am very aware of almost every ranking possible regarding Tech's academics and its general reputation throughout higher ed. I tend to believe that what is important (as Sandon pointed out) is to look at certain departments. My Ph.D degree program (public and international affairs) at Tech is excellent, with some real powerhouses that have international reputations. English dept, however, is not too hot and liberal arts in general are not the focus of the school (unfortunate, in my mind). As for letting in athletes with dubious academic scores, I know Sandon might take me to task on this, but UVa has been dealing with/recruiting some rather poor students since Al Groh came onto the "grounds". Ahmad Brooks and Phillip Brown come to mind. And FSU is not exactly known for their "standards" in relation to letting in athletes. Clemson? Maryland? C'mon, that is a weak argument to be making, I am afraid. No ACC school except for maybe Duke and Wake are in a position to throw stones here. Sandon, you might be pleased to know that Tech's new soccer stadium will be opening this fall. Around 1,000 seats, I understand, right near the football stadium and field house. Looks to be quite nice and will provide another recruiting tool for Oliver (and Kelly Cagle) to use in upgrading the program. Basically, the program suffered from no money. We did not even have revenue sharing in the Big East for olympic sports; football revenue has been sustaining all other sports. By coming into the ACC, this should help the coffers of all others sports at Tech.
(rumor) was that it was going to be miami, vt, and bc and then right at the end a surprise interest school called and said they were interested. Fox (the head person at NCSU) is on the board of trustees at ND. Some said that it might be notre dame who called in and showed and interest at the last second causing the ACC to hold open a spot for them...