PBP: USWNT WWC '11 Final Roster

Agreed. Engen has been the best center back in the league this year and deserves to be on the team.

Another reason Engen should be on the team: injuries. Currently in the past month or so we've seen injuries from Mitts, Rampone, and LePeilbet. I'd feel much better bringing someone like Engen who could fill in centrally than sticking with Mitts who obviously couldn't.

 

OK, I think you misjudged my reason for the use of the Sundhage quote. I never looked it up as a tool of further anti Sundhage propaganda. She's doing a good enough job at that her self . I found the article randomly, but felt it helped make my point about the holes that can be found in Sundhage's various WNT philosophies.

I mean, you suggest Sundhage actually uses WPS performance in critiquing her players for WNT selection. However if that were the case, the core of her primary starting eleven wouldn't even suit up for most games. Remember that for every Sauerbrunn, there's a combination of Llyod, Mitts, or Rapinoe that can walk straight into the NT while sick, injured, or in horrible form. It's just not a very sound area to debate, as the evidence has been clear to see every weekend, for the last three years.

If your lauding Sundhage for the new faces she's actually brought into the seniors, It's been a bit of a scatter brain process to get to where they are now. Other than Morgan, I don't see hugely positive results. Yes up and coming players like Leroux, Engen, Klingenberg etc... got caps, but where are they now? Their WNT hopes and fate all depend on veteran players severe injury status. At the moment that severe injury status would have to be something close to losing a leg.

If Sundhage is so happy just handing out caps to popular bright young things, she could of capped Miley Cyrus and gotten what she has now in terms of squad development. The joke being Cyrus would probably have just as much chance at a WWC place as a regular WPS stand out .

Would I be crazy to think that as much as Ryan is seen as the biggest idiot to have graced the women's soccer scene, his record probably still beats Sundhage? The U.S will display a better quality of football than 07', but that's because every team within women's football is better than 07'. The team will have as much chance as they had four years ago, which still makes them a strong side. Yet I personally feel it's all the same strengths that Ryan could have used just as well as Sundhage.

The team got the moral boost it needed by appointing a coach that brought a fresh atmosphere to the team. Beyond that, and since then, there's nothing major in the way of progression. Injury has been the biggest factor to many of the teams serious developments.

 

I was suggesting that WPS games and WNT training play a role in player selection but surely there are other factors. The example of Sauerbrunn was to show how a NEW player was introduced to the team via proving herself in WPS and WNT training. That's a completely different situation than Lloyd and Mitts, who are veteran WNT players who have already proven themselves with major contributions to the program and that has to count for something as well. If Mitts is injured, she won't go to WWC and a younger player like Engen will.

So Rachel Buehler (first capped at 23 in 2008) has not had good results? Cheney was the second leading scorer on the team last year, so I'd say that's pretty good results. You seem to forget that players like ARod, Cheney, Heath, O'Hara and Morgan are all relatively new pros and not a one is older than 24. Engen would add another. 12 of the 21 players on the WWC roster are 27 or younger and all of them save for Loyden and maybe O'Hara should be significant contributors in Germany and six should be starters.

Are you suggesting that Leroux and Klingenberg should be on the WWC team? I would disagree with that as neither is ready. To answer your question, they are where they should be, getting a chance to train with the national team but also improving their games in college/WPS so they can make future tournament rosters. And Engen could be going to Germany if Mitts can't go.

Please give us examples of "WPS standouts" that should be on the WWC team or have not received a fair shake. And remember, not getting a fair shake is different than a player I like is not getting called up/capped. Pia might choose different players that you or I would, but you and others constantly present it as if there is something nefarious going on here. She's choosing players and tactics that you wouldn't (and sometimes I wouldn't) but that does not mean players are not getting a fair shake.

Also, which "veteran players severe injury status" do the "WNT hopes and fate all depend on?" Mitts? She has hardly played this year and Krieger seems pretty settled at RB. Rampone and Amy L? They have coverage at CB with Buehler and Becky S and Amy L appears healthy. I think the fate of this team will lie on the outside back situation, particularly LB. Now that is something Pia should have addressed earlier.

 

I preface this by saying that Cheney is one of my favorite WNT players. But I think Pia has used her a lot since taking over. In 2008, 10 games and two goals. In 2009, she only had three caps off the bench. But last year, she had 13 caps, including seven starts and was the second leading scorer on the team. But with Abby returning this year, it really is hard to play them both up front because you lack speed with that combo so ARod and Morgan get more time when Abby plays 90 minutes. But let's not forget that Cheney will just turn 24 this year and is only in her second year as a pro. She's going to get better. Same with ARod, Morgan, Heath, O'Hara etc...

On the turnover thing, 13 new players from 2007 is a big turnover however it was accomplished. My larger point was that contrary to what some have said on these boards, Pia certainly has given lots of newbies opportunities to train and compete with WNT for the first time. She could have stuck with holdovers like Kai, Osborne, Dalmy, Ellerston and Whitehill -- and some think she should have in some cases (you and Kai for example) -- but she brought in some fresh blood like Cheney, ARod, Morgan, O'Hara, Buehler, Krieger and Heath. She also gave someone like Averbuch 10 caps last year and Rapinoe has become a starter.

And I would expect players like Farrelly, Engen, Taylor, Klingenberg, Becky Edwards, Nikki Marshall, Ashlyn Harris etc... to compete for Olympic team spots next summer and some will become stalwarts of the WNT in the next quad regardless of whether Pia is the coach or not.

 

I'd include Dalmy because that was almost 2 years ago. Dalmy has definitely improved since then and is still the most productive defender offensively in the league. (Granted she isn't playing defense this year but when magicDan is running the show.. )

I think Dalmy should have at least been brought into camp after last season when she lead all US defenders in points and was on the backline with the second best GAA.

 

Actually, Ellertson got called up in late 2008 after having the baby and scored a goal in a friendly late in the year against China. Then she hurt her hamstring in the very next game in Detroit against China if memory serves. In fact, I remember asking her about her injury when Athletica had one of their "meet the player" events in January, 2009.

I was doing a quick comparison between the German team and the USA. The difference is with the younger players. I used June 26 (the opening day of the WC) to figure ages and the US (with O'Hara) has an average age of 27.71, while the Germans are at 26.46. But Germany actually has six players over 30, while the US will only have five.

The difference is in the younger players. The US has only five players younger than 25. Germany has nine. Germany has four players younger than Alex Morgan on their team. It just seems like they give their players a chance at a much younger age than we do. That's probably why some of our younger players are going to Mexico instead, where they will get a chance far sooner.

Yes, Pia has given caps to younger players, but not many...Engen has two, Klingenberg two, Leroux one, Taylor two, and O'Hara only five. Morgan has been an exception to that rule. In fact, Pia is probably just as likely to give a second look at older players, Lori Lindsey as an example. I'm sure it's frustrating for younger players to have wait through the system, when they see players at the same age from other countries getting opportunities quickly.

 

Agreed that Dalmy deserves a look. Not that Krieger hasn't been playing well, but it's always nice to have options.

My biggest qualm about Pia is her lack of experimentation. Sure, I'd like to see some of my favorite players brought into camp, but I realize I'm not the coach and Pia does see things I don't. I accept that. But in the last two years since I really started following the national team, I've been disappointed by the lack of diversity Pia uses during friendliest. Yes, she's brought in different players and given them a couple of minutes, but she hasn't explored more options. She's kept to the same starting eleven basically unless injury forces her to deviate. I just would have liked to have seen her give some more minutes to players like O'Hara and Sauerbrunn, to really give them a sense of the international game, and so that we could see how they perform. She's brought in Angeli and Engen and Mewis several times in the last year and I would like to have seen her actually try them out. Let Pia make the player decisions, that's fine with me. But at least explore options within the constraints of those players do that maybe we could switch it up every once in a while.

As for the left back problem, in my opinion Meghan Klingenberg is the future solution to the left back problem. Now I'm not saying that she's ready right one to take that spot, but I think she's the solution to the problem. I would have liked to see Cox get some more minutes over the last year since it looks like she'll be the starter.

For the Olympics, I really expect Farrelly, Edwards, Klingenberg, Leroux, Mewis, Nogueira, Engen, Taylor, etc. there fighting it out for the roster. By next year, any one of Rampone, Boxx, Mitts may be done internationally. The current WWC roster is okay with me (except for Mitts who I believe has no place on this roster due to continuous injuries) but I would just have liked Pia to switch it up more earlier so that by now we could know that we've exhausted our options and this is our best eleven no doubt and this is how we play best. I still think we have a shot at winning the WWC and I want nothing more than that at this point.

 

See I agree on Becky Edwards. I would like to have seen her get called into a camp. And you can add DiMartino and Dalmy to my list. But not getting a fair shake implies that Pia is holding her hands over her ears and singing "La La La" at the top of her lungs when someone suggests trying a new player.

I firmly believe that the WNT coaching staff looks at WPS religiously and chooses players accordingly based on the merit of their play and how they might fit with the players the team already has and the tactics the staff want to employ. Having said that, I don't always agree with the decisions they make about which player to take or not take.

I just don't think Pia is sitting in her office twirling her handlebar mustache saying, "How can I plot to keep Becky Edwards, Tina DiMartino and Marian Dalmy off the national team" and then giving a Dr Evil laugh. I also don't think that Pia has cut out players that would be huge difference makers in Germany.

 

Interesting stuff. The only thing I would point out is that there is a big difference in soccer culture between the two countries. In the US, NCAA women's soccer is considered a big training ground for future national team players. Our college aged players cannot always get out of school commitments to play for WNT. They are going to school in addition to playing soccer.

The Germans don't really have something equivalent to NCAA soccer so they get college-aged players earlier than we do. I would also be curious as to how many of those young Germans will be starting for that team or playing key roles.

I also think that Morgan is probably a better player than the others you named and you do not want to take time away from players who have a shot at making WWC in order to cap those that don't. For example, if you cap Leroux, then you take away time from other young players like Morgan, Cheney and ARod who need to be evaluated for playing time/ roles.

 

I think your thoughts on Pia or more than reasonable.

On Kai and Ellerston, isn't not inviting them back to train pretty much Pia saying that they don't fit with her vision. If Pia came out and said something to that affect, there might be some who would complain that she is trashing them. And Chalupny has the concussion issue that was out of Pia's control, correct?

Actually, I think Abby's injury gave Cheney playing time last year and not ARod. As for her future, it depends on whether Abby continues to be the epicenter of the offense more than those younger players taking a job away from her. I think Cheney is better than any of those players coming up and doesn't turn 24 until this fall.

 

For her to make a difference she would have to play. Would you start her over Boxx? Is she ready for that? I wouldn't be too quick to say no because I like her game as much as you do. But you could not play them together at CM because that leaves you will little offensive push up the middle.

 

Lori L: Rarely used, Pia will not sub Llyod out. Lori, has proven to be the key to unlock Arod. They have belt a great partnership in wps with Philly. Thats a already made partnership, they understand each other and work well with each other.

Becky Edwards: Consistant, ball winner, other than Osborne I can not think of any other standout Dmid. and help lead her team to a wps final.

DiMartino: top 3 craftiest players in the league and one of the most difficult to deposes. Her combination with Lori and Arod has proven to be very effective. One of the biggest issues with Uswnt attack is they are not on the same page, thus resulting in kick it long and somone chase it. Dimartino is a better dribbler than llyod and better combining in the pockets behind the forwards. Doesnt lose the ball in the mid as often as llyod. She doesnt have the nose for goal as much as llyod but she as well as tarpley are the only true attacking mids.

Yael Averbuch: Deployed as a left mid???? has the most dangerous free kick on the team. Can spread the field better than anyone on roster, great vision and passing. Can shot for anywhere on the field, thus creating more space forwards to work. Many teams bunker in on defense, playing US, having a player like Yael who can strike a ball from 30 forces the defense to come out and defend. Playing her at left mid is not a fair shake at all. Idk how anyone could think you can convert her into a outside mid.

Osborne:Younger version of Boxx who is way past her prime. Hard working ball winner and leader.

Brit Taylor: Proven leader, Captain of sky blue at such a young age. Versatile, quick, aggressive. Whitney E may have her number on centerback but not as a right back. If anyone watched Chicago red stars it showed Whitney was not capable of playing out on the wing defense. Was better suited for a center role. Brit Taylor aslo is a better passer than Whitney.

K Wilson: One of the top right backs in the league, one of the fastest players in the league. Prehaps the most attacking oriented rightback in the leage, esp with all the flank play Pia preaches soo much about. Will provide the needed speed in the back that USwnt lacks so much.

Kia Mcneil: First year proved a formitable backline, great in the air, fast, agressive, also a leader.

Tina Ellertson: Fastest centerback in the league, that is not an opinion. All star team selection. Yes Pia called her into camp long ago but deployed her as a forward. A position she hasnt played since college. Experienced at worldcup and international level. Can Also play as rightback.

Falk: Lead backline to 2 consecutive apperences in Wps finals. If i remember correctly did not get called in at all.

Lauren Cheney: Deployed on the wing, as we all know her main strength is holding the ball with her back to goal. If we are all being honest with ourselves she is a much better post player than Abby. Abby is a beast in the air and can score. As far as being able to hold a ball, Cheney gets the nod, playing her on the wing isnt giving her the chance to play to her strength.

Rachel B: Played way out of position, as a left back. Formed a great partnership with Amy L, why break up a good thing. Not a fair shake. Granted this was a issue some months ago, I feel Pia could have tested other options than Buehler who obviously could not perform the job at hand.

Ella Masar: this one is difficult bc she did get her shot but she got her shot before she proved capable. Why she got called into camp after her first year with chicago makes no sense. Didnt score any goals rarely a factor in her team. Her second year she had a break out season and didnt get called in at all. This was before the emergence of Morgan. A bit backwards, play horrible get called in play lights out dont get called in??? thats not a fair shake at all

I feel players like Boxx, Llyod, Rampinoe, Mitts, Arod, Cheney have been out of form for way too long not to give somone else a go. These can come out as just opinions but the stats provide a solid foundation to all arguements. Rampinoe has yet to come to at international level, which is not surprising given her performance in the wps. Players should be able to regain form at club level inorder to prove they deserve a call up. This helps avoid players becoming complacent.

WPS is a waste, atleast thats teh messege Pia is sending. I do not mean to pick on Mitts and Rampinoe but how can you play that bad and get called in. You avoid calling them in for one camp, call someone else. Two things happen, the new girl gets a chance and whoever left behind gets a wake up call.

Every player should feel that they always have one foot out the door. It creates a better competitive atmosphere and brings out the best in players. Pia has great philosphy but does not have what it takes to bring USA where they need to be.

 

OK, so if you were Pia you would have Edwards and Boxx starting at CM and Edwards would lake Lloyd or Lindsey's roster spot? I can feel your axe coming down on Carli but I would actually take out Lindsey.

FCGP did have have three forwards essentially last year with Sinclair, Marta and OHara correct. So that allows them to generate offense a little easier with two defensive oriented players in CM. I wonder if that would work with our players -- Abby, ARod, HOR and Rapinoe. Not sure that gives you enough offense.

 

I am not a Boxx fan at all, but I do feel you are 100% correct on ur analysis. I have issues with certain players but the core of my discomfort with this system of things is the lack of player managment. I do not feel players are given the chance to play to their strengths. I think Pia forgets Boxx is not 24, Boxx will never say hey coach im tired can i sit out this game. She is a Warrior, and will do whatever it takes. Its a Coaches responsibility to monitor such players.

 

Good points about the soccer culture being different and the role that the NCAA plays in developing our young players. Also good point on taking time away from other players, but when Wambach was injured, I thought that was a chance to take a really good look at Leroux. I think she played a total of four minutes in China in three matches.

Most of the young players on Germany's team will play a pretty big role on their team. I'm sure our international fans will know better, but just from what I've been able to observe:

Peter (age 23) is definitely a starter.

Bajramaj (age 23), Kulig (age 21), Laudehr (age 24) all start many of Germany's games and if they're not starting, they usually see appreciable playing time.

Okoyino da Mbabi (age 22) is usually one of Germany's top subs. Popp (age 20) has been seeing more and more playing time, but is not a starter. Bianca Schmidt (age 21) started three games at Algarve in 2010.

Faiβt (I'm not good with their alphabet, so forgive me if I screwed it up) is pretty much a newcomer on their senior team, but started and played 90 minutes against North Korea recently. The only one that really hasn't played and played a lot is their third-string goalkeeper Schult, who hasn't capped with the senior team.

Schmidt, Kulig, Popp, and Schult were all on Germany's U-20 team in 2010.