Yes, although that year was hardly atypical - note that the USA never played more than 5 official matches in a single year until the arrival of the NASL in 1968.
Somehow the Bradley table got corrupted, let's try that again: Summary table: Code: Totals Coach MP W D L PPCT GF GA GFA GAA ORAT ORNK M 99 31 31 37 41.8% 118 112 1.19 1.13 1657 35 S 64 26 16 22 49.0% 85 71 1.33 1.11 1664 35 A1 65 34 13 18 59.0% 101 53 1.55 0.82 1724 27 A2 64 37 15 12 65.6% 109 45 1.70 0.70 1639 48 B 56 34 6 16 64.3% 104 63 1.86 1.13 1712 36 Detailed breakdown by match location: Code: Milutinovic (1991-1994) Loc MP W D L PPCT GF GA GFA GAA ORAT ORNK Total 99 31 31 37 41.8% 118 112 1.19 1.13 1657 35 Home 70 25 25 20 47.6% 91 64 1.30 0.91 1676 34 Away 23 5 3 15 26.1% 18 40 0.78 1.74 1595 50 Neutral 6 1 3 2 33.3% 9 8 1.50 1.33 1738 27 Sampson (1995-1998) Loc MP W D L PPCT GF GA GFA GAA ORAT ORNK Total 64 26 16 22 49.0% 85 71 1.33 1.11 1664 35 Home 40 21 10 9 60.8% 62 40 1.55 1.00 1664 34 Away 14 3 4 7 31.0% 14 17 1.00 1.21 1572 58 Neutral 10 2 2 6 26.7% 9 14 0.90 1.40 1810 19 Arena (1999-2002) Loc MP W D L PPCT GF GA GFA GAA ORAT ORNK Total 65 34 13 18 59.0% 101 53 1.55 0.82 1724 27 Home 38 26 7 5 74.6% 72 21 1.89 0.55 1723 28 Away 19 3 6 10 26.3% 17 24 0.89 1.26 1717 28 Neutral 8 5 0 3 62.5% 12 8 1.50 1.00 1824 17 Arena (2003-2006) Loc MP W D L PPCT GF GA GFA GAA ORAT ORNK Total 64 37 15 12 65.6% 109 45 1.70 0.70 1639 48 Home 43 30 9 4 76.7% 87 19 2.02 0.44 1609 52 Away 14 6 4 4 52.4% 18 17 1.29 1.21 1575 58 Neutral 7 1 2 4 23.8% 4 9 0.57 1.29 1867 11 Bradley (2007-2009) Loc MP W D L PPCT GF GA GFA GAA ORAT ORNK Total 56 34 6 16 64.3% 104 63 1.86 1.13 1712 36 Home 31 24 5 2 82.8% 76 27 2.45 0.87 1631 48 Away 17 8 1 8 49.0% 18 19 1.06 1.12 1727 34 Neutral 8 2 0 6 25.0% 10 17 1.25 2.13 1987 4
IIRC I came on when we were already 2-0 down. As another poster mentioned it was indeed amazing how ill-prepared we were. That team met up in New York, flew to Bermuda the next day and played the following day without a single training session. Not to mention most of the squad had only been in pre-season training with their (mostly) NASL clubs about two weeks or so and were no where near match fit. The next day we flew to London and then on to Warsaw....two days later (again without a single practice session) played the best Poland team ever in Lodz.....lost 4-0 (which, considering Poland then knocked England out of qualifying for the 1974 World Cup was not a bad result at all..... Poland beat England 3-1 in Warsaw that year and went on to finish 3rd in the 1974 world cup. Three days later we played Poland u23's in Warsaw, led 1-0 before eventually losing 2-1... The USSFA (as it was then) was totally clueless and had zero idea about how to prepare for that level of competition....the fact that the daft bastards selected me, an Englishman, tells you all you need to know. I am very proud that I did, indeed, play for the full national team of the United States of America and wouldn't have missed that experience for anything and I enjoyed every minute of it. I played a total of 6 times for the USA (started 4) although I'm only credited with two caps as the other 4 games were against Poland u23's, Germany u23's, Lazio, and an Italian Serie B team and were not considered full internationals.
where was england66 july 4, 1976... a certain england was playing team america in philadelphia, and i don't recall usa getting past midfield at all, with possession that is ...
Nursing a fcuked up knee.....not that I would have ever been picked again after 1973....FIFA saw to that...(and rightly so)
that was the first time i saw the 'national team' play... people really don't realize how far usa soccer has come since then
USMNT all-time record, by coach: Code: MP W D L PPCT Years Coach 537 215 117 205 47.3% 1916-2009 Totals 2 1 1 0 66.7% 1916 Thomas Cahill 3 2 0 1 66.7% 1925-1926 Nate Agar 56 34 6 16 64.3% 2007-2009 Bob Bradley 130 71 29 30 62.1% 1998-2006 Bruce Arena 5 3 0 2 60.0% 1973 Eugene Chyzowych 4 2 0 2 50.0% 1930 Robert Millar 2 1 0 1 50.0% 1934 David Gould 62 26 14 22 49.5% 1995-1998 Steve Sampson 9 4 1 4 48.1% 1968 Phil Woosnam 36 15 6 15 47.2% 1982,1989-1991 Bob Gansler 18 6 7 5 46.3% 1983-1985 Alkis Panagoulias 3 1 1 1 44.4% 1991 John Kowalski 96 30 31 35 42.0% 1991-1995 Bora Milutinovic 6 2 1 3 38.9% 1924,1928 George Burford 32 8 10 14 35.4% 1976-1980 Walter Chyzowych 3 1 0 2 33.3% 1950 Bill Jeffrey 6 2 0 4 33.3% 1953-1955 Erno Schwarz 18 4 5 9 31.5% 1986-1988 Lothar Osiander 8 1 2 5 20.8% 1957,1965 George Meyer 7 1 1 5 19.0% 1948-1949 Walter Giesler 4 0 1 3 8.3% 1959-1961 Jim Reed 4 0 1 3 8.3% 1971-1972 Bob Kehoe 3 0 0 3 0.0% 1937 Bill Lloyd 2 0 0 2 0.0% 1947 Andrew Brown 1 0 0 1 0.0% 1952 John Woods 1 0 0 1 0.0% 1964 John Herberger 2 0 0 2 0.0% 1969 Gordon Jago 2 0 0 2 0.0% 1973 Max Wosniak 5 0 0 5 0.0% 1973 Gordon Bradley 2 0 0 2 0.0% 1974 Dettmar Cramer 2 0 0 2 0.0% 1975 Al Miller 3 0 0 3 0.0% 1975 Manny Schellscheidt Thus far, Bob Bradley has the best points percentage for any USA coach since 1926.
Scaryice, Another source to add to the mix, "USA 1885-1995: The International Line-Ups and Statistics Series" by Roger Allaway. Source of the data is not given, but it includes the club team of each participant of each match, so is not a direct copy from the info on the USSF or RSSSF websites. According to Allaway's book: 1) Ben Watman of New York Hakoah listed as starter (replaced by Matevich). Charlie Colombo of St. Louis Simpkins also listed as a starter in this match. 2) Gary DeLong of Vancouver Royals, Canada, listed as starter (replaced by Victor Gerley). 3) Only sub listed is Archie Roboostoff for Emanuel Georgev. Child is listed as a starter for the next match, also v POL on 8/12. Counce is not listed for either match. 4) Fred Grgurev of New York Apollos listed as starter. Brewster listed as a sub in 59th minute for starter Charlie McCully of Connecticut Wildcats. McCully also listed as a sub in the 46th minute for Alain Maca, so perhaps that was DiCicco instead, who is not listed??? 5) Fred Grgurev listed as a sub for starter Andy Rymarczuk of Rochester Lancers. 6) Russell is listed as 71st min sub for starter Greg Villa of Minnesota Kicks. 7) Fowles is listed as a sub for starter Steve Ralbovsky of Colorado Caribou. Al Trost is listed as a sub for starter Dale Russell of Houston Hurricane. Gary Etherington is listed as a sub for starter Mark Liveric of Oakland Stompers. Villa isn't listed. 8) Louie Nanchoff listed as a sub for starter Perry Van Der Beck of Tampa Bay Rowdies. 9) Crow is listed as a sub for starter Erhardt Kapp of Pittsburgh Spirit. 10) Mausser is listed as a 46th min sub for starter Winston DuBose of Tulsa Roughnecks. 11) Murray listed as an 80th min sub for starter Tom Silvas of UCLA. 12) Trittschuh not listed. 13) Trittschuh listed as a 63rd min sub for starter Desmond Armstrong of Maryland Bays. 14) Jonas not listed. 15) Sorber not listed, although he does appear as a 72nd min sub in the next match on 2/2/1992. 16) Kinnear listed as a 73rd min sub for starter Peter Vermes of USSF. 17) Frank Klopas listed as 46th min sub for starter Joe-Max Moore of USSF. 18) Moore is listed as a 46th min sub for starter Claudio Reyna of Bayer Leverkusen. Berhalter is not listed as participating in any of the 6 Copa America matches that year. 19) No player named Howard or Whatford listed with a cap in 1949. John Souza of New York German-Hungarian listed as a starter on 1/14/1954 vs MEX. No player named Bud or Lillie, or James or Hannah listed with a cap in 1957. No player named Curtis or Leeper listed with a cap in 1979. Since it appears Roger Allaway is a member here now, perhaps he will see this post and be kind enough to clarify the source of his data.
Fantastic stuff. One interesting thought: We've had positive goal differential under every coach from Bora on (1991-2010) and possibly under Gansler, and we still have a negative overall goal differential.
Nice work. I'll have to go through it later and fill in the missing info. My goal was to be able to say exactly what number cap each player got in each game, so it would be nice to get that done.
One additional note: the Allaway book includes line-ups for some matches not considered official by USSF and, perplexingly, is missing data for 6 official friendly matches in 1988 and 2 official friendly matches in 1992. Fortunately for current purposes, the USSF and RSSSF line-ups are in agreement for all 8 of these matches. Note also that John Souza (14 Caps, 3 G) and John Sousa Gastelum (presumably 0 Caps) appear to be different people.
Is this the Lauderdale game vs Canada? If so, both Nanchoffs played. I remember it as a game lowlight. May have been worst international game in history......
No, this was the 11/23/80 WCQ vs MEX, also in Fort Lauderdale. Louie came on as a sub in min 22. USA defeated MEX 2-1 on a Steve Moyers brace. The WCQ vs CAN was played in Fort Lauderdale on 10/25/80. Louie started and played the entire match, which ended in a 0-0 draw. George's last cap was on 2/11/79 vs URS in San Francisco. Both Louie and George started that one, with Angelo DiBernardo subbing in for George in a 1-4 loss.
I assume DiCicco would've came on for Ivanow, since both were keepers. The other sub I have for that game is Rymarczuk, so maybe it's him. Looks like he did play, it was his only cap. This makes me wonder if some/all of the RSSSF lineups are based on that book. Sorber is listed here as playing "both games." Leeper may have played for the USA in the Olympic qualifying in 1979. Also, Bud Lillie is probably the same guy as Tom Lillie, who was an alternate for the 1956 Olympic team. There was a James Dorrigan on that team who played.
This match is an example where RSSSF and Allaway differ. All three sources agree that Andy Rymarczuk came on as a sub for Barry Barto. HOF has Brewster starting, while RSSSF and Allaway have Grgurev starting, with Brewster coming on as a sub for McCully. Allaway also has McCully coming on in min 46 for Maca, which is clearly in error since McCully is listed as a starter in all three sources. HOF has DiCicco coming on for Ivanow, but does not have DiCicco listed with a cap in the player registry. If Grgurev did play, he should have 15 caps instead of 14. DiCicco's profile (http://www.soccerpluscamps.com/dicicco/tony_bio.html) says he played for the Nats in '73, so I would assume he came on for Ivanow at min 46. Still don't know whether Brewster started or came on as a sub, but apparently he runs a soccer school in New Hampshire now, so maybe we could send him an e-mail and ask him. Well, RSSSF and Allaway are not always in agreement, as I mentioned, and RSSSF has matches which are not included in Allaway. In this instance, the only difference among all sources is whether or not Jonas was subbed in (for the goal scorer Gjonbalaj) - I see no harm in assuming he was, since he appears with 1 cap in the player registry. I have read too many incorrect press reports to consider any one definitive, but once again the only difference between the sources here is whether Sorber subbed in or not for Michallik, and this appearance is consistent with the 67 caps listed for Sorber in the player registry, so again I see no harm in assuming that he did. Yes, I also came across a reference that suggested he took part in at least one of the olympic qualifying games against Mexico on 5/23/79 and 6/3/79, neither of which was an "official" USSF match, so I assume his listing with 1 cap in the player registry is in error.
This is a looong time ago that I wrote that stuff, so it is not easy remembering sources. However, I think that my main ones were: 1) Documents sent to me by the USSF, including its earliest media guides, around 1992 or 1993. 2) Articles from both American and foreign newspapers that I found on microfilm during a series of trips to the Library of Congress in Washington in the early 1990s. I found that it was easy to read box-score information in languages where I could not read the articles. 3) Letters and phone calls to a number of retired players, although those contacts mostly involved finding out what clubs the players were with at the time of those national-team games. 4) Assistance from a Canadian man named Colin Jose, who is the greatest compiler of information about North American soccer that I have ever met. 5) A book titled U.S. Soccer vs. The World, which was written in 1983 by Tony Cirino, the sports editor of Il Progresso, the Italian-language newspaper in New York. A few posts after the one that I've quoted above, NoSix wondered about some games, particularly in 1988, that are missing from my records and some others that are in my records but not others. The reason for this is that when I was compiling my records (which I originally intended for my own enjoyment rather than for publication) I made some decisions about what should and shouldn't constitute a full international that differed from the USSF's definitions. In the 1980s, the USSF played a lot of friendlies in which the United States team seemed to me to be so much a developmental one that it was stretching a point too far to call the game a full international. So, I decided on a rule of thumb, which was completely arbitrary and one that nobody but me has followed as far as I know. What I decided was that I would not consider a game to have been a full international if the United States' starting lineup included six or more players who had never been capped before. This eliminated at least a half-dozen games. This not only eliminated games that were clearly developmental ones, it even eliminated one in which the real U.S. national team was on the other side of the world at the same time. I did include in my records several games that are not in other records. This, too, was a result of an arbitrary decision on my part. For the 1984 and 1988 Olympic Games (and qualifiers), the IOC and FIFA agreed on an eligibility standard for soccer in which countries from areas other than Europe and South America were allowed to field their full national teams. Thus, for the 1984 Olympics, the 1987 Pan-American Games, the 1988 Olympic Games, and Olympic qualifiers in 1987 and 1988, I listed games between the United States and other teams who were fielding their full national teams has having been full internationals. I think that if I were going to do this project all over again (which I am not), I would forget about these differences and just follow the USSF's official record. Deciding on your own record causes too many complications. Besides, the USSF has cleared up a huge number of discrepancies in its own records since the early 1990s, both discrepancies concerning which games to list and discrepancies concerning lineups. A few problems remain, such as John Sousa Gastelum (who I believe is the same person as John Souza), but the record is far cleaner than it used to be. In addition, the U.S. no longer plays those games it used to claim as full internationals despite fielding developmental lineups. I think the last such games were against Costa Rica and El Salvador in 1992. An example of the sort of discrepancies it has cleared up is a 1988 game against what it once said was the Nigerian national team. The game actually was against the Nigerian first-division champion, a club named Iwuanyanwu National, and the USSF no longer lists the game as a full international. Another example of the sort of thing that the USSF used to do but no longer does is that at one time, it listed a game against Malaysia in the 1972 Olympics in West Germany and a World Cup qualifier against Canada in Baltimore on the same day has both having been full internationals. I do still have some differences with the USSF record. For example, its list of full internationals still includes a game against Northern Ireland in Belfast on Aug. 11, 1948. However, the opponent in that game was not the Northern Irish national team. It was a league all-star team (and most of the best Northern Irish players didn't play in that league anyway; they played in England). These differences with the official record over what games were and were not full internationals, are part of the reason why, when Colin Jose and I wrote a book in 2002 about national team games, (The United States Tackles the World Cup) we stuck to the World Cup and World Cup qualifiers, areas in which there is no dispute over what games were full internationals.
Thanks for your reply. I enjoyed your book. Don’t spend the massive royalty check from my purchase all in one place. I will definitely order a copy of the Cirino book. I guess the obvious question would be if you still have any of your sources lying around somewhere. Either way, if you have any comment on any of the line-up discrepancies between HOF and RSSSF noted in scaryice’s list, we would welcome your input. As opined in the opening post, while I am sure the USSF have their reasons for what constituted an “official” vs. “unofficial” match, in many cases the distinction appears arbitrary. My personal preference would have been to consider “official” any match between two teams designated by their countries at the time of the match to be their national representatives, but I have respected the USSF designations of “official”, to the best of my ability to determine them, in arriving at the 537 number.
There's no danger of that. That book (which I consider a booklet and not a real book) was published in England and I've forgotten whether I got paid anything up front (if I did, it would have been about 15 cents), but I know I haven't been paid anything by that publisher in recent years. I've since written four real books with American publishers. I'm proud of them, but they haven't been best-sellers, to say the least. I don't think I've made enough in royalties to pay for the coffee I drank while I was writing them. Good luck finding it. I bought it in 1990 at a store that no longer exists. Amazon lists it as out of print. I think finding it in a library might be your best bet. I do have some of them and will take a look and will make some game-by-game comments. However, I now consider by far the best source to be the USSF's own annual media guides. They used to have tons of problems in their lists, but they don't anymore, thanks in particular to the efforts of a guy named Jim Moorhouse, who was the USSF's director of communications from about 1994 to 2006. The USSF does still list those games that had very heavily developmental lineups, but I no longer consider them a great problem. In 1990, those games made up about 10 percent of the total list. Now, they're only two or three percent and much easier to ignore. For one thing, their effect on the list of caps for individuals is much smaller than it used to be. Years ago, the U.S. national team was playing a lot fewer games than it does now, and the USSF was much more hungry for games that it could label as full internationals than it is now. There still are a few problems concerning players listed as having played full internationals who did not. This is largely a result, I think, of the fact that the USSF used to list a lot of Olympic qualifiers as having been full internationals. When they eliminated those from their list, they tried to eliminate the individuals from the list of full international players but missed a few. I don't know how heavily I would rely on the Hall of Fame list. I've been the historian of the National Soccer Hall of Fame since 2007 (and believe that I still am, despite the fact that the museum is closed). That list was done by computer-friendly website managers, with little if any input from soccer historians. I know that I had no input in it myself. I'm not sure if I've ever even looked at it. I agree with you completely here. The distinction is arbitrary and I no longer have any problem with going along with the USSF's list. My arbitrary distinction is no more scientific than their arbitrary distinction. I think there are some of those games that are not considered by the other FA to have been full internationals (such as the game in Northern Ireland that I mentioned in a previous post), but don't really worry as much about that as I did 15 years ago.
Your comments would be greatly appreciated. As someone who is not a member of the media, how would I go about obtaining a copy of the annual media guide? Well, as you know the US Soccer Hall of Fame is the official repository of US soccer history. The HOF website lists its source as the (2005) US Soccer Media Guide, so for those of us without ready access to the media guide, it is as close to the gold standard as we can get without making a trip to Oneonta. The only independent source of line-up information is the RSSSF list, compiled by Dave Litterer, who maintains the American Soccer History Archives. scaryice originally identified 18 matches out of the 537 where there are discrepancies between the HOF and RSSSF lists. My take on where we have gotten thus far: 1) 6/19/1949 - HOF error, RSSSF correct: Wattman started, Simpkins was Colombo's club team name. 2) 10/20/1968 - unclear: HOF lists Feher as starting, RSSSF lists DeLong 3) 8/10/1973 - likely HOF omission, RSSSF correct: Child and Counce as subs 4) 9/9/1973 - unclear: HOF lists Brewster as starting, RSSSF lists Grgurev. Likely RSSSF omission, HOF correct: DiCicco as sub 5) 11/15/1973 - HOF omission, RSSSF correct: Grgurev as a sub 6) 9/6/1978 - likely HOF omission, RSSSF correct: Russell as sub 7) 9/20/1978 - unclear: HOF has Etherington, Fowles, Trost, and Villa starting, RSSSF has McAllister, Nanchoff, Ralbovsky, and Russell. 8) 11/23/1980 - likely HOF omission, RSSSF correct: L. Nanchoff as sub 9) 5/30/1984 - likely RSSSF omission, HOF correct: Crow as sub 10) 2/8/1985 - likely RSSSF omission, HOF correct: Mausser as sub 11) 2/5/1986 - likely HOF omission, RSSSF correct: Murray as sub 12, 13) 7/1/1991, 7/3/1991 - unclear: HOF and RSSSF both have Trittschuh sub for Armstrong, but disagree as to which match it occurred in 14) 9/14/1991 - likely RSSSF omission, HOF correct: Jonas as sub 15) 1/25/1992 - likely RSSSF omission, HOF correct: Sorber as sub 16) 10/19/1992 - HOF omission, RSSSF correct: Kinnear as sub 17) 2/20/1994 - HOF omission, RSSSF correct: Klopas as sub 18) 7/8/1995 - RSSSF error, HOF correct: Moore as sub Any info on the unclear items: 2, 4, 7, 12, and 13 would be especially helpful, although confirmation on any of the other items would also be appreciated.
Just found the match reports for these matches on the Gold Cup website. The HOF listing is in error, and RSSSF is correct. Trittschuh appeared against Costa Rica on July 3rd, not against Guatemala on the 1st: http://www.goldcup.org/page/GoldCup/TeamRelatedLink/0,,12802~0~3~3387,00.html Click on the individual match results to see the box scores.
Well, as you are no doubt aware, the Soccer Hall of Fame is effectively shut down at the moment, with prospects for revival appearing dim. With Roger's help, scaryice and I should be able to assemble an accurate caps list, and post it here so that those interested at least have access to that information.
I don't understand what you think the USSF ought to be doing on this subject that it isn't doing. I think it took the lead on this about 15 years ago and that the list of full international lineups that it publishes every year in its media guide is the most complete and accurate list in existence. Back in the early 1990s, the USSF's list did contain a lot of inaccuracies, particularly in the area of listing games as full internationals that it shouldn't have. However, the USSF's communications department made huge improvements in that list during the period of roughly 1995 to 2005. Earlier today, I looked at the list of "full internationals" in the USSF media guide for 1993 and counted more than 90 games on that list that shouldn't have been there and which have since been dropped. I hate to keep bringing up the name of Jim Moorhouse, which I have several times in PMs to NoSix, but I think Moorhouse is the man more responsible than any of us for producing an accurate list.