Like what? A handful of teams with the ability to win (I thought that's what you were railing against, genius), with a bunch of other nondescript teams? Or is it just that Orlando - the team that can actually sell tickets, unlike your team, which plays on the wrong side of the freaking Bay and has a front office that couldn't sell Bobby Petrino a time machine - is the team in question, and your tiny mind can't handle that because you're a fanboy? I swear to God this is true: there are maybe four people in the Western Hemisphere dumber than you. Maybe.
That's a real challenge winning a league and not going up. I would rather be were the Rowdies are, than have a "fake" motto- USL the next best league under MLS bullshit. a team that sells BS propaganda of going to MLS..not going to NASL because they are scared of standards. Your fantasy world sees what's going on in lower division D3 as it's great business as usual...well I see it as a disease than needs too be given a cure by USSF. Where are the standards for D3? Found it on their website: USL has established minimum standards. So that means 1. a field 2. 2 goals. 3. a ball
ummm... What NASL standards would Orlando be afraid of? They could meet all of them with ease if they chose to.... the different standards between USL Pro and NASL have nothing to do with Orlando's choice to be D3.
Does anybody see the irony? No pro/rel + no salary cap is ridiculous. To be fair IF Cosmos outspent their rivals 2-1 and stayed in NASL instead of going to MLS I would be on their case too.
I would be impressed by NASL "standards" if they didn't require a waiver EVERY year for certification. Now, can we get back to "USL Pro attendance thread?"
Just found the number -- 12,668 permanent seats. And that doesn't include the luxury boxes. So, quite a bit more than 10,200. Yes, all teams do this. Good luck finding a team announcing gate figures. Frankly, in the Rhinos' last season or two at Frontier, the gate figures began varying quite a bit from the actual figure, as the old ownership group tried to keep the dream alive through floating comps. As for the Antigua game, that was the single most extreme example this season -- a fourth of July game with no fireworks or other promotion. I predicted that game would be terribly attended ahead of time. I think there might have been an increase in the variance between paid and announced that started up again last season. And, perhaps that supports your argument about D3 having an effect. I think attendance really did pick up a bit this season over last, though. Might going to a sanctioned DII league help? It may, regardless of the modest difference in play. I'm not sure it would help enough to justify the investment. I remain hopeful that some real shakeout between these leagues will happen, and a true, permanent, financially viable DII will emerge. I can't understand how the teams in the southeast of the USL and NASL aren't looking at this thinking there's a real path to financial stability if they come together. (Miami, Tampa, Orlando, Atlanta, Charleston, Richmond, Charlotte and Wilmington create a nice group that would minimize costs, and each USL team plays good soccer, although Charlotte's operations have its quirks.)
To your last point, once again, the only way that would happen is as either D3 or if USSF revises the major current D2 financial standards. $750K annual bond $20M net worth for one of the owners thomas19064 - could the current Orlando ownership group meet this requirement (whether they wanted to or not)?
The lower bowl under the suites is where the majority of fans sit right?.......second after that is the bleachers behind west side goal.....then sections 123-129. I know how many seats are in the lower bowl and how many fans sit there on average. So if there is a difference in seat count, its in the west side bleachers where its a tough call due to them being bleachers and not seats. But either way, that area is not even a quarter filled anyway. The 4 corner bleacher areas are another simply one to visibly count fans in. And the north seating area (sect.123-129) ...well, thats a joke, hardly anyone sits there and thats the largest amount of seats in the place. The top level above the suites again is very easily countable every game from 20 to as high as 50 this whole season. If the stadium really has 12,668 seats that even proves my point even more. Look I've got pix from plenty of other games and its all basically the same. I'll even print them out and show them to you and rampage at the next playoff game, and you could judge for yourself if the numbers are what they say they are. I'm not gonna post anymore pix on here because I feel it does the club a disservice , but will be glad to show you guys in person. Let me know, I meet you guys somewhere in the stadium .
I don't know Orlando's financial situation, but if I was going to guess, I'd bet they'd be closer to meeting that requirement than a good portion of the teams currently in D2.
I don't know how much John Bonner is worth, but Phil Rawlins is worth $40 million. And I have been told that they have other investors "waiting in the wings" for MLS. I won't speculate on the ones with actual owners; that would be impolite. But the fact that 3 1/2 out of 8 are still owned by Traffic, and the rumors that the 1/2 (Minnesota) may be folded if/when the Cosmos join...
Thanks for the response. Not sure what the other comments by you and thomas19064 had to do with my question as I was just commenting on something that bdaly had posted regarding the SE teams from the two leagues combining, but thanks all the same.
For the record, the reason I'm holding off on posting final season numbers because I'm hoping that I'll get responses from Los Angeles and Charlotte.
Division 3 Code: Final Numbers Year Avg Median %<1K %>3k 2005 1680 1457 21.4% 11.9% 2006 1803 1703 14.1% 11.8% 2007 1575 1423 28.1% 6.3% 2008 1614 1629 26.0% 7.3% 2009 1602 1518 31.8% 7.1% 2010 1689 1385 35.1% 17.5% 2011 2688 1623 33.6% 37.5% Median-33%: 1082 Median+33%: 2164 <MED-33%: 50 / 39.1% >MED+33%: 56 / 43.8% Code: Avg 2011 Avg Orlando 6604 5415 Rochester 6268 5137 Wilmington 4265 4053 Charleston 3947 3501 Richmond 2379 1986 Harrisburg 1452 1406 Pittsburgh 984 1127 Charlotte 819 1022 Antigua 818 1189 Dayton 725 661 Los Angeles 666 440 OK. Here's what I have. There are still four attendances missing: the final LA home game, the make-up Charlotte home game and the two Antigua games that were held at Bradenton. Since all four of those are pretty certain to be under the median, the real median is probably 1572. That's pretty significantly different... but if you look at it by ranking the seasons, it would still be the 3rd best median, just as it is without those four attendances. And, even if I had those four attendances, it would still finish as the by-far best average and >3k%. But with all that good stuff, there's still the terribly obvious 2nd worst <1k%. Pittsburgh can probably be forgiven, what with a new stadium opening next season. And Charlotte is a special case. If their ministry is OK with them continuing to lose money for the cause of trying to convert folks, then we can't really measure their economics the same way as we would other teams. It's nice to see some improvement in Dayton and LA. It might be enough for Dayton, but I have to think that LA is on really shaky ground. No pun intended. And as for Antigua, I guess we'll have to see what their FA decides after their World Cup qualifying ends. On the high end, Charleston had their best average since 2008 (when they were in USL1). Clearly the league level doesn't matter there. Wilmington set a new team record, and I can't help but wonder what they could do if they had their own soccer stadium. And after years of going backwards, Rochester appears to have turned things around. I hope it's a real turnaround, not just a Potemkin one. Richmond had its best season since 2009. They've had many season better than this one, though, so there's certainly room for improvement just looking at their history. And with fewer bad-weather events, Harrisburg managed a slight improvement. Oh, and then there's Orlando. Plenty of discussion about them elsewhere. My comments are just "Let's see where this thing goes." So, another D3 season in the books. Looking forward to seeing what the league looks like next season.
It's good to see that Rochester has gotten better attendance this year. The Battery also have some really good numbers as well.
I don't think Wilmington's stadium situation matters. They may not own their stadium, but other than that, it looks like a fairly ideal situation. Pittsburgh had some good numbers late. I'd love to see how they do in the new stadium next year. Dayton has a new stadium situation next year closer to town, so I'm willing to give them a chance. Antigua and LA need to go, and Charlotte also deserves better. Violet: If I were you, I'd drop the Bradenton matches and just average Antigua on 10. They weren't "at home", and my understanding is their attendance was effectively non-existent anyway. Also, what numbers do you have for Orlando? My calculations say 6,606.
Regarding Antigua -- you make a good argument. And that's what I'm doing for their team number. But when it comes to the league average, that's one of the games that took place this season for the league, so to be anal about it, it should be included. My numbers for Orlando: 8421 + 7899 + 6722 + 7231 + 6821 + 5602 + 6148 + 3506 + 7260 + 6031 + 4673 + 8932
8,421 7,899 6,722 7,231 6,821 5,602 6,148 3,506 7,260 6,031 4,703 8,932 Mine match. 6,606 average. And we have a responsibility to be accurate only so much as it reasonably impacts the conclusions we can draw. As for Antigua, I'd just as soon show them with 10 games with a notation that two games are missing. As ERic says, they're league matches and they happened, so, from a league perspective, I'd rather include them if I can, but I'm not going to lose a lot of sleep over it. Antigua can't draw. Those two games have little bearing on that.
They match you except for that one, apparently. Hey, sue me. 4,673 is what the Battery reported, too. So there we are.
4,703 is what USL and Orlando City report. Then again, Charleston was the one that reported 1,321 when it was 3,121 last year, too.
Quarterfinals tonight: 1,441 in the rain in Richmond 2,718 in Charleston Orlando and Rochester host semifinals