Post-match: USA v Panama - Gold Cup - 6/26

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by tbonepat11, Jun 26, 2019.

  1. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    DE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think he is pretty good, He was off on this one but the snippet loses some context and was awhile ago.
     
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  2. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    People are super protective of Pulisic. One guy out of 4 panelists lightly questioned him and the response is way over the top.
     
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  3. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    With no supporting cast and against better opposition Jozy got a goal. Zardes scored a goal he knew nothing about and 2 against Trinidad in a rout. I know who I choose for the Semi-finals
     
  4. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, I don't get this kid all. If he'd been 6 months younger and age group eligible for the U 20's, I think he gets cut there...
     
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  5. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I've seen some potential there, but I don't think he's better than Ledezma or Mendez overall.

    That said, he's there because he was literally the 4th choice for the CAM role -- behind Pulisic, Lleget, and Holmes. Maybe even more than that, really, but he was fourth choice on the 40 man.

    Sargent was third choice -- maybe wrongly. But if Jozy or Zardes had gotten hurt like Holmes and Lleget, he'd be there, too. You can't really compare the situation.

    The person who disappointed me most the last few games was Roldan. He's not this bad of a player ... but he's played terrible.

    Paxton Pomykal is coming for his spot.
     
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  6. CMeszt

    CMeszt Member+

    Farewell Sweet Prince
    Jan 9, 2004
    Gentrification's Apex.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Ledezma I can see, but Mendez looked like a flashy but entirely ordinary player in Poland once he was no longer going up against the guys that will someday if they're lucky grow into camp cupcake roster opponents like he was in concacaf qualifying.

    Djordje will get more looks, but it's going to come with a lot more competition. He really only ended up on the roster due to some serious injury misfortune, but I don't entirely hate the fact that he's there. Kid's only 20 and IIRC was only a month or so too old for the u-20 pool this time around. His ceiling may be higher than a guy like Roldan in the end, but he's got to get a lot more consistent.
     
  7. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Mendez is an interesting player -- I think he's boom or bust, so to speak.

    His skill set is fantastic. Great vision, great passer, good on the ball, great shot. His movement is not great. His defense is not good. His athleticism could be questioned.

    That makes it sound like I'm way down on him. I'm not. He has skills our other prospects will never develop. But he's got a significant risk profile -- more than someone like Pomykal, Ledezma or Llanez, IMO.

    Djordje doesn't have the upside of Mendez.

    I think something that the USSF is ABSOLUTELY going to do, and it's going to annoy everyone, is that they are going to take the opportunity to get as many of the younger folks into camp ... by basically sending many of the young guys to youth teams even if they might deserve higher level callups.

    What I mean is: Paxton will likely be part of Olympic qualifying/U23 if he's not sold, even if he's better than Roldan. That's going to be frustrating.
     
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  8. ttrevett

    ttrevett Member+

    Apr 2, 2002
    Atlanta, GA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OK so let's bench Pulisic and McKinnie for Roldan and Mihailovic? This guy is either on some serious painkillers or has a paid-for agenda. That was just a moronic thing to say. We have all of two world class players on this roster right now and he's questioning what they bring to this team? And he does this professionally? It makes me want to quit my day job and get into soccer broadcasting if idiots like this can make dollar one and say crap like that out loud.
     
  9. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i disagree pretty strongly on mendez- with a caveat. hes got a killer long shot, kind of weirdly really great long through balls and HUGE potential on fks (gotta learn to keep em down). but he plays very one dimensionally right now.

    theres that caveat though- RIGHT NOW. hes got to fill out/mature a LOT of aspects of his game. clearly. hes 18.

    but passing (overall), possessing the ball, dribbling, off the ball movement? at this point hes not CLOSE to ready for the sr level.

    thats my opinion. theres no reason to think that wont all come, to some degree, just in the normal process of an 18yo growing into his body and maturing as a player. that leaves a very wide spectrum of potential, though.

    his left foot is a gift that raises his quality almost on its own- absolutely no doubt.-like yedlins pace, or pulisics skill on the ball. but you cant just be one thing, and hes got a LOT of filling out to do in his game.
     
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  10. neems

    neems Member+

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    Apr 14, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Check out the Total Soccer Show podcast and the interview with Warshaw weeks ago. He literally slays on every single European based player and calls out their leagues as obscure or of little value compared to MLS. Worst part is that he admits to not even watching the leagues or players at all during the process...
     
  11. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    Still not worth the risk.
     
  12. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    I am not agreeing with him at all but you are misrepresenting his thoughts, part of which was correct.

    He said that he doesn't have opinions on guys he hasn't seen play a number of times(which is a good position as an analyst but as a person in his job is terrible because he is paid to have hot takes) which are the non first division euro guys.

    he also questioned guys who choose random guys as the savior of the usmnt that they haven't seen play either because people aren't getting up early to watch the championship on espn+..

    These are both good and correct statements.

    Now his over inflated value of mls players is bad but it doesn't mean everything he says is wrong.
     
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  13. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #263 juvechelsea, Jun 28, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2019
    I think the whole midfield (except Pulisic) would be up for grabs if a player showed well. I like Lletget and Holmes but they are hurt. Gall and Green weren't even in camp. Trapp is still spelling Bradley at 26, Bradley is old, often beat for pace, and only intermittently useful. Roldan, Mihailovic, meh. McKennie does the odd nice thing but one reason I gave those "goals per" and "assists per" stats was to show that him and Bradley pitch in tangibly on offense at almost a defender's rate. I think if Pomykal or Mendez came in it would get crowded quickly.

    I also thought one other lesson of U20 worlds was Soto is coming for Sargent. And while many want to frame this up as Jozy vs Zardes, that may be literally as dumbed down as it can get. Imagine if Wood was sharp, plus the kids, plus the old farts. You can do the same thing at wings.

    Now what they need to do is work backwards in the formation like that. I named a couple mids who should maybe get a shot in a game or two this fall. Richards may be interesting in the back. I wish I had more names to rattle off from U20s there. But there we may need to try some dual nationals and out of box ideas, and be open to the idea that if B.1 and EPL players can't pitch these sorts of shutouts we are, that they are surplus.

    I think it's an interesting time because the standard of play was off, the incumbents are not entrenched, and there is plenty of new talent coming up. I do see a question of whether GB can deal with them fairly or if he will play favorites. The scenarios I set up assume open mindedness.

    That if Wood gets his act together and Soto and Sargent emerge, can he do the objective thing. If the noob mids come in and show something, can he make those swaps. Will Brooks and Yedlin go right back in the lineup if this tournament is kept fairly clean. I can see the possibilities but am not sure Mr. Favorites will be an honest broker of our lineup and roster slots if it means cutting or benching his People. To bring in the young CFs might mean breaking a Gyasi/Jozy egg. Ditto mids with Bradley Trapp etc. There is where you can see the team going and then there is inertia.
     
  14. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Landon made an interesting point that the eleven for this game were trying out as the players to rotate for the rest of the tournament if a starter got tired.
     
  15. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    warshaws just hatin cause they arent down with "flow play", or whatever nonsense he spouts all the time. lalas or twellman or whoever are about as dumb as you disagree with their soccer takes- warshaw is a generally dumb dude.
     
  16. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And that's a reasonable position. It's a gray area. There's risk both ways. Panama scores, and we might not be able to equalize, and are stuck playing Jamaica. Playing Curacao allows us to rest a few players and have them sharp for the Jamaica/Panama game on 2 days rest. If GGG had started Pulisic, I would have had a problem.
     
  17. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    What do you like about Warsaw?
     
  18. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    #268 IndividualEleven, Jun 28, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2019
    Rewatched the game until the 70th.

    Altidore: passed well with with his back to goal. blew two excellent scoring opportunities from the area. too many poor touches for a center forward. His movement needed to be better.

    Lovitz: nice MLS player. blew too many chances to deliver a quality cross or pass.

    Lewis: like Lovitz, blew too many chances to a deliver a quality cross or pass. Unlike Lovitz, he showed improvement as the game wore on. The rust from the injury layoff probably didn't help.

    The rest did a solid job. The main problem was the lack of a creative player to facilitate the breaking down off deep-sat defense.
     
  19. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    how can you say that dm/roldan did a solid job as the pair of 10s when you say they lack a creative player...they are supposed to be that and they weren't even close. That isn't doing a solid job.
     
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  20. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Roldan was part of multiple positive attacking movements. He did a solid job in helping the team create chances. That being said, the team needed someone else in Mihailovic's spot.
     
  21. neems

    neems Member+

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    Apr 14, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fair enough. He's just not presenting himself well recently at all in my opinion. I don't even entirely disagree with his views on hype players other than the misplaced title on players like Holmes. Sure, some people are penciling him in prematurely, but no need to make a point if you simply can't be bothered to watch as many matches as possible.
     
  22. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    The left side of Lewis(LF), Mihailovic(LCM), and Lovitz(LB) was the weak link in the attack.
     
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  23. neems

    neems Member+

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    Apr 14, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #273 neems, Jun 28, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2019
    Not sure what to think here. Reassured and insulted in one swoop, I think?

    I don't know. There is no reason these commentators can't at least be knowledgeable and well researched.
     
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  24. manq360

    manq360 Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Portland, OR
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All I really remember about Mendez is he was not particularly good on the free kicks. Also on the penalty kick, I remember saying..."Don't let Mendez take it...Don't let Mendez take it". But unfortunately he did and then I don't believe he played in the next game.
     
  25. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    I think it is a choice that can be made and thus perhaps an "off white." But playing someone you were resting defeats the point. And you have to weigh risk versus reward. The reward in this case is not advancement that is already clinched. It is the incremental difference of opponents, who you now play with the star that little bit more tired, and in this particular game you run the risk they get chippy with him specifically, and cleat tackle him, and that's your tournament right there. And he is not being put out there to gap-fill, he's being brought out there to dance around and create. Odds go up.

    The squad rotation people questioned turned out to be common sense, Panama rotated 9 too. So you don't risk much by it because they are doing it too. As we see, we got the result anyway. And then you are undermining the rest and safety rewards of rotation when you put your key player out there.

    You know, the one who periodically disappears and looks tired? There wasn't a cross country runner we could field?

    Coming at it a different way, there's no one else we could have subbed to make an impact?

    FWIW a tie was as good as a win so I don't understand the urgency. I would have played the 11 a long time and only considered subbing key players if the game literally went south ie they scored. Even then I think the value of freshness for the rounds is more than the value of placement.

    Part of the reason we can't be flip with the bench selections is you need to be able to trust them to see out results just the same.
     

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