Post-match: USA v Netherlands Round of 16

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by OWN(yewu)ED, Dec 3, 2022.

  1. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  2. How many matches in a world cup have the Netherlands played in which they fell behind and didnot come back against teams ranked lower than 10?
     
  3. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    How many?
     
  4. My guess is none, and against the top 10 very few.
     
  5. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No surprise there. He's absolutely correct. I'm sure he'll be regretting that one for a long time.
     
  6. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wondo has said he still regrets his miss vs Belgium.
     
  7. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm sure he does. Was this meant to be a burn? I certainly wasn't trying to "burn" Pulisic. It was a great chance. I thought he'd score. He didn't, and the game would have been much different than it was if he had. He knows it, I know it, you know it. It sucks.
     
  8. In 1978 only lost to Scotland 2-3.
    In 2006 1-0 to Portugal.
     
  9. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was agreeing with your post. A player always remember big chance misses at major tournaments.

    I have no idea what a burn is, I may need to get out more?
     
  10. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You do need to get out more. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/burn
     
  11. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    The game goes differently? I agree, but usually there’s a BS logician (or two) emphatically telling me that an early CP goal simply changes the final score to Netherlands 3-2 USA.
     
  12. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    And, what WC matches have they won after trailing a >10 side?
     
  13. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    I'd have gladly welcomed that. Pulisic was owed another goal in Qatar.
     
  14. Italy 1978 1-0 behind, 2-1 win
    brasil 2010 1-0 behind, 2-1 win
    Spain 2014 1-0 behind, 5-1 win

    Several matches we were behind and then pull off a draw, like this time against Argentina.
     
    TheHoustonHoyaFan repped this.
  15. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    yes Adams was like most ground covered of all players in the group stage I saw somewhere. and there were a couple of other players - jedi lead all players through the groups/1st knockout game in sprints by A LOT.

    and those were two of the players that ran out of gas vs netherlands.

    thing is - players can empty their tanks only so much....the teams that go far are able to conserve energy in the group games....but by design berhalter didnt really allow for that.....although, he did sub out a lot of the skill players arounf 60th minute (I assume with this thimking in mind)

    it was odd that the US players were so poor in stamina. rgardless, the coach has to have his pulse on that and adjust accordigly...berhlter decidedly failed at that.

    plus it was a condensed wrld cup scheduling wise...so copying what other teams did in other world cups was always going to be dicey...but berhalter did that too anyway.

    was a bit of bad luck and hard to preditc that players like dest mckennie and pulisic would all be struggling with their clubs as this world cup came around...and also struggle with fitness...it IS a bit odd that the US players ran out of gas seemingly much more than oppponents...but for me, gregg is common denominator there. he employs an unsustainable approach that is capable of grinding the team down while making the 2nd round in 2nd place of a group and nothing more.

    at the end of the day, it was obvious to me that using the bench as a bunler crew had a very low ceiling....and the team paid for that strategy heavily. it was actually inexplicable considering all of the players who can actually play with the ball who were left at home.
     
  16. Shaster

    Shaster Member+

    Apr 13, 1999
    El Cerrito, CA, USA
    I tied of this moral victory shit. Like we performed very good against such mighty team, world power, and we had more balls, bull craps.
    Next time, if we meet something called world powers, just beat them. Al right? Like Morocco, they beat Belgium, they beat Spain, they beat Portugal. There is NO moral victories, I want REAL victory that show in scoreboard.
     
  17. Calling BS

    Calling BS Member+

    Orlando City
    United States
    Jan 25, 2020
    Yeah, I don’t really have much to disagree with. Where we disagree is that I think the players left at home were mostly marginal and wouldn’t have made much if any difference. He took a flyer on Hadji that didn’t really pay off. Most of the players were similar in quality. All the players that would be able to make a difference at a WC level were there. If he managed them differently, there’s no guarantee we even make it out of the group. That’s not to say he didn’t miss-manage the group stage, I’m just saying there’s no definitive statement to be made.
     
  18. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    the 2022 mlsers are only capable of bunkering at WC level...pretty sure some of the euro options left off the roster are capable of continuing the same style of possession and bite that the starters had. greggg didnt even really vet the euro part of the pool much at all after the obvious players. waaaay oversized amount of time and chances given to MLS...when you look back on it....every single USMNT MLS player flopped in Qatar. that in itself should be bye bye greggg for me. he staked his wc on MLS and the returns werent there.

    it wouldve made a difference if players like ledema and booth (for example) were there and were able to keep the ball for the team after minute 60 in some of the matches.

    the MMA midfield has not sold me. it an option, not irreplacable.

    I think there shuld be 2 center mids not 3. with rotation and subbing. so that the team can have an attack and a bench and not only go bunker without them. I think the choices gregg made make no sense.

    ferreira doesnt play a match for 2 months and gets thrown in for his wc debut in a knockout vs netherlands....it was an abomination. what kind of judgment does this coach have? he's just throwing sht on the wall and hoping something sticks. he doesnt know what hes doing.
     
  19. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Only people I really saw celebrating moral victories around here were those gushing over Canada after the loss to Belgium.

    Being relatively happy with the results the U.S. did get is a different thing, and one I wouldn’t relate to a moral victory. I get being jealous of Morocco, but likewise there were other teams around the U.S. level (as well as some better ones too) that didn’t do as good as the round of 16. I’d say it was a solid tournament for the U.S., and if that’s not quite something to “celebrate,” it’s still something I feel good about as a fan.
     
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  20. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    With respect to your last graf

    "ferreira doesnt play a match for 2 months and gets thrown in for his wc debut in a knockout vs netherlands....it was an abomination. what kind of judgment does this coach have? he's just throwing sht on the wall and hoping something sticks. he doesnt know what hes doing"

    maybe Gregg was thinking about college tuition for the kids and his extension for the 2026 gig and the pressure was just too much. I heard that from a guy who was at this business luncheon but I can't give a link or disclose more because it was confidential.
     
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  21. Shaster

    Shaster Member+

    Apr 13, 1999
    El Cerrito, CA, USA
    Well, my hairs didn’t appreciate in Wales and Iran games. LOL.
     
  22. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With 9 MLS players on the roster (one being the 3rd string keeper), how do you figure that "Gregg staked his WC on MLS"? If you exclude Zimmerman's minutes, the rest of the MLSers played something around 180 minutes total. Zimmerman did not "flop", of course, but you'll be saying this for years because of the penalty mistake he made (and all the while turn your head and whistle when anyone mentions Adams', Dest's and ARob's mistakes).

    Berhalter brought in shit tons of players to camps. Do you remember Tyler Boyd? I'm sure you were in the contingent on here screaming for his inclusion in a camp and deriding Berhalter...until you saw him in a camp. How about Sebastian Soto? Or, here's a real funny one, how about Djordje Mihailovic when he got his calls and caps a few years ago? How about Kevin Paredes? Owen Otasowie? Gioacchini? KDLF? Bryan Reynolds? Christian Cappis? Matt Hoppe? George Bello? Gianluca Busio? Duane Holmes? Joe Gyau? Jonathan Amon?

    Ledezma (who did get called up and capped by Berhalter, FYI) and Booth would have been so out of their depth if they had been put on the field--not that either of them should have been on the roster anyway (especially Ledezma--are you f*cking kidding?). Ledezma has gotten 410 total minutes in Eredivisie and Europa League IN HIS CAREER TO DATE. But he totally would have roasted the Dutch if only Berhalter weren't an idiot.
     
  23. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I (often) dont even know where to start with your posts.

    1. ledezma already has more euro minutes than morris, acosta, roldan have now and will ever have in their careers. he's a teammate of gakpo ...and is likely familiar with the dutch style and players ....PSV is a top club....you're vastly underrating him and vastly ovverrating the performance level of a player like acosta.

    2. its not simply that he brought the 9...its that that meant he didnt bring the other better players...and that as a result of these MLS orange slice spots being given out as rewards for being a good micky mouser, that meant the team had ro depth...and then had to be run into the ground in the groups

    if you want to argue that the pool simply couldnt have provided a 26 man roster with depth....i would say youa re just clueless....but i'm not sure you would argue that...although it seems you might be.

    3. as for the players you slandered in your post, its messed up. i was excited for tyler boyd...he was scoring in portugal when he decided for the usmnt...it was big. he played well with the usmnt just stopped getting called. i reckon he is better right now than morris but that's not really saying much and doesnt even mean he should have been in qatar.

    parades couldve helped but was injured.

    you underestimate booth a lot too....of course the player of the month nov 2022 in the netherlands wouldnt have been a good bench option vs the dutch smmfh at how idiotic that idea is.

    4. the 180 minutes were so awful the team was largely in a defensive bunker any time the MLS contingent was on the field. how anyone can defend that is beyond me.

    Zimmerman's catastrophic PK wasnt the only poor aspect to his performance. he was so bad on the ball he just passed to ream every time he got it. if thats the best mls can do its a serious indictment of domestic options in that league.
     
  24. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Zimmerman was good aside from the penalty. That was noteworthy bad, but so were the three or four great goal scoring chances we had that were squandered. We had the chances to score more than three, didn’t take them. Doesn’t invalidate the positive contributions those players did make.
     
  25. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1: I didn't mention Acosta at all in my post, but you prove that "Euro minutes" is your main deciding factor as to any player's quality.

    2: Berhalter should have brought Pepi over Haji Wright. I thought that while I watched the roster announcement and still think it. I have no idea why Berhalter made that choice. Also, Sargent was evidently the first choice for Gregg, and wasn't healthy to play against the Dutch, hence Ferreira.

    3: You're all alone in thinking that Tyler Boyd acquitted himself well for the USMNT. I didn't slander anyone in my post. All I did was name fringe players who (mostly, but not entirely) play in or played in Europe when they got called up. I'm glad Taylor Booth has been playing well lately, but "Player of the Month of November, 2022" when the WC roster had to be announced 2 weeks later doesn't make the cut. Sorry, dude. Not materially different than "Weston McKennie got an 8-minute cameo in the Bundesliga at the end of the season in 2017, clearly he would have saved our qualifying campaign". There are very, very few people who had any of those players on a 40-man short-list prior to the 2022 WC.

    4. There's very little to "defend": MLS guys (Zimmerman aside) played about 180 minutes, total, out of 3960 possible minutes. And Zimmerman was quite solid outside of his one big error. Ream was fantastic, and I'm glad he was there (I'm sure you were one of the ones that crapped on Ream/Berhalter a year ago November, too). The rest of those minutes were "European" guys.
     

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