USA ranked 11th in FIFA rankings

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Fulhamfc3, Nov 11, 2004.

  1. Fulhamfc3

    Fulhamfc3 New Member

    Sep 26, 2004
    Las Vegas
    USA is 11th in the FIFA rankings.They did not change their ranking since the last FIFA rankings even though they had won 2 matches since then.Should the USA be higher than 11th or should they be lower?
     
  2. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

    Dec 15, 1999
    Campania
    We should be #1, dammit! Didn't FIFA see that thrashing we gave to Panama?
     
  3. Dr Jay

    Dr Jay BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 7, 1999
    Newton, MA USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Aren't these rankings "quantitative"? If so, by their formula, we are 11, so we are 11. To quote Coach Parcells: "You are what your record says you are"

    Qualitatively (and maybe more realistically), we are probably more like # 20.
     
  4. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wanted the United States to move up but apparently El Salvador and Panama weren't good enough opposition to do so.
     
  5. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    ELO has them at 18 between Turkey (17) and Croatia (19).
     
  6. wjarrettc

    wjarrettc Member
    Staff Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Cliffs of Insanity
    Club:
    Carolina Railhawks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was unaware that the Electric Light Orchestra maintained international football rankings. Wow!
     
  7. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    ELO is pronounced "Ee-low", not "E-L-O".

    So, get that out of your head, no, no, no, no...
     
  8. Prawn Sandwich

    Oct 1, 2003
    Bhutan
    Sounds about right - what was the full list of the top 20?
     
  9. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    Argentina, Brazil, France, England, Czechia, Spain, Holland, Italy, Portugal, Mexico, Japan, Greece, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Ireland, Turkey, US, Croatia, Australia.
     
  10. Rodan

    Rodan New Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Providence
    Sounds about right.

    But Japan at #11?
     
  11. Wahoo

    Wahoo New Member

    Aug 15, 2001
    Seattle, USA
    I was more amazed at Mexico at #10...
     
  12. seahawkdad

    seahawkdad Spoon!!!

    Jun 2, 2000
    Lincoln, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And, if I cared about rankings, just a bit pissed.

    Who, after all, is Mexico's daddy? :D
     
  13. voros

    voros Member

    Jun 7, 2002
    Parts Unknown
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Anything that keeps them from making more music has my approval.
     
  14. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    Japan made a big run under Zico this year, which it started at 24, then won the Asian Cup and beat the Czechs, the Serbs and the Argentinians and tied the English. Its only loss was at Hungary. Overall 16 wins, 1 loss, 3 ties.
     
  15. Ives#10

    Ives#10 New Member

    Feb 5, 2001
    Lynn, Ma
    Japan is not # 11.
    This is the top 20
    1 Brazil
    2 France
    3 Argentina
    4 Spain
    5 Czech Republic
    6 Netherlands
    7 England
    8 Mexico
    8 Portugal
    10 Italy
    11 USA :D
    12 Turkey
    13 Denmark
    14 Republic of Ireland
    15 Sweden
    16 Germany
    17 Greece
    17 Japan
    19 Uruguay
    20 Iran
    This is from fifa.com :rolleyes:
     
  16. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Japan has indeed had a fantastic year. I put them in the same category as the US. A solid group of veterans with a lot of talented youth coming thru the system. Definitely a soccer country on the rise.

    Honestly, though, haven't we had enough of these ratings. Aren't we savvy enough as football fans to know they're absolutely meaningless.
     
  17. blkbrnrvr

    blkbrnrvr Member

    Mar 2, 2003
    Auburn metro
    Club:
    Blackburn Rovers FC
    we better play well against Oklahoma, or else we may be left out of the BCS picture....oh, wait. :D
     
  18. voros

    voros Member

    Jun 7, 2002
    Parts Unknown
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But that is the problem with ELO in a nutshell. One good win and you jump 8 spots, one bad loss and you drop 8. They leapfrogged a bunch of teams by beating China and Oman (twice), two teams they ought to beat wherever they happen to play them.

    Here's Japan's 2004 season with home team listed first (similar familiar team):

    Friendlies (6 - 1 - 2)
    Japan 4 - 0 Malaysia (Belize)
    Japan 2 - 0 Iraq
    Hungary 3 - 2 Japan
    Czech Rep 0 - 1 Japan
    Japan 3 - 2 Iceland (Guatemala) in England
    England 1 - 1 Japan
    Japan 3 - 1 Slovakia
    Japan 1 - 0 Serbia and Montenegro
    Japan 1 - 2 Argentina

    Qualifiers (5 - 0 - 0)
    Japan 1 - 0 Oman (Trinidad & Tobago)
    Singapore 1 - 2 Japan (Nicaragua)
    Japan 7 - 0 India (Bermuda)
    India 0 - 4 Japan
    Oman 0 - 1 Japan

    Asian Cup (all matches in China) (4 - 2 - 0)
    Japan 1 - 0 Oman
    Japan 4 - 1 Thailand (Haiti)
    Japan 0 - 0 Iran
    Japan 1 - 1 Jordan (Jamaica)
    Japan 4 - 3 Bahrain (Cuba)
    China 1 - 3 Japan
     
  19. mtr8967

    mtr8967 New Member

    Aug 15, 2003
    In both FIFA and ELO there are a pack of very close teams. I wouldn't bet on the 10th ranked team to go on the road and beat the 20th.

    Ok voros, 'fess up. You've got your own system. Where does it have the US?
     
  20. voros

    voros Member

    Jun 7, 2002
    Parts Unknown
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No because they're not "meaningless."

    First of all, they affect seeding fot the World Cup.

    Second of all, they do a fairly decent (though by no means perfect) job of rating the relative strengths of the various teams.

    Third of all, it's very easy for people to underestimate the value of objectivity, Yes in any rating system some subjective decisions must be made, but ultimately once the rules are in place, the results take over and let the chips fall where they may. Subjective opinions can be maddeningly imperfect when it comes to something like this.
     
  21. dna77054

    dna77054 Member+

    Jun 28, 2003
    houston
    Nope IIRC correctly they lost to Argentina in Japan. But no shame in that.
     
  22. Fulhamfc3

    Fulhamfc3 New Member

    Sep 26, 2004
    Las Vegas
    USA is a top 10 team. You can only play the teams that your group has you cant simply move your country over to Europe. It is very very unfair to say well some of the teams USA play are horrible well what about some of the teams Italia plays or England.Italia lost to Iceland. England dont have another top 20 team in their qualifying group.Every team plays horrible teams.
     
  23. voros

    voros Member

    Jun 7, 2002
    Parts Unknown
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At last pull (October 16):

    1. Brazil
    2. Argentina
    3. Netherlands
    4. France
    5. England
    6. Czech Republic
    7. Spain
    8. Germany
    9. Italy
    10. Portugal
    11. Ireland
    12. Sweden
    13. Turkey
    14. Romania
    15. Denmark
    16. Croatia
    17. Norway
    18. Mexico
    19. Colombia
    20. U.S.A.
    21. Greece
    22. Belgium
    23. Uruguay
    24. Paraguay
    25. Serbia and Montenegro
    26. Japan
    27. Russia
    28. Poland
    29. Senegal
    30. Nigeria

    I've fiddled with systems over time, but I'm more or less done fiddling with this one because it's had a few empirical tests so far and has done surprisingly well so I have a fair amount of confidence that it is at the very least on par with ELO (it's done better in the tests I've done but not substantially) and at least a little better than FIFA.

    From Norway through Belgium the teams are all very close so they could shift around as more results come in.

    Concacaf:
    18. Mexico
    20. U.S.A.
    41. Costa Rica
    45. Honduras
    65. Guatemala
    69. Jamaica
    70. Canada
    84. Panama
    99. Cuba
    100. Trinidad & Tobago
    105. El Salvador
    117. Haiti
    134. Grenada
    136. St. Vincent & the Grenadines
    137. Barbados
    144. St. Kitts and Nevis
    146. St. Lucia
    151. Netherland Antilles
    152. Belize
    159. Bermuda
    162. Antigua & Barbuda
    164. Nicaragua
    165. Guyana
    174. Dominica
    178. Cayman Islands
    179. Dominican Republic
    181. Aruba
    188. Puerto Rico
    189. Bahamas
    190. UK Virgin Islands
    195. Anguilla
    197. US Virgin Islands
    202. Turks & Caicos Islands
    203. Montserrat

    And yes there are two teams worse than Montserrat. Also, two CONCACAF teams rank below a country where until recently the game was illegal to play for several years.
     
  24. sregis

    sregis Member

    Nov 5, 1999
    Hoboken, USA
    i want to see the us consistantly play the world's best teams evenly or better before i seriously consider us top 10.
     
  25. Rodan

    Rodan New Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Providence
    I agree. Japan is at about the US level - not 7 spots higher.

    Jumping all the way to 11th on the basis of beating the Czechs (OK, pretty impressive), tying Engalnd, and beating the Serbs seems a little silly.
     

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