USA: hegemon or empire?

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Becks7, Mar 2, 2004.

  1. Becks7

    Becks7 Member

    Dec 6, 2000
    Hong Kong
    What do you think?

    For those americans who do think the US is an empire, how do you feel about it.

    I'm a little bit fed up with USA's hardcore globalisational actions....
     
  2. mannyfreshstunna

    mannyfreshstunna New Member

    Feb 7, 2003
    Naperville, no less
    I'd call us a hyperpower.
     
  3. Karl K

    Karl K Member

    Oct 25, 1999
    Suburban Chicago
    "Fed up?" With "Hardcore globalisastion actions?"

    Excuse me, is this a Jenna Jameson movie?

    Meanwhile, would you have liked, say, the Soviet Union to be in our position now??

    Anyway, I dispute the either/or premise of your question.

    Those north of the border, like you, who seem to have unbridled contempt for us, or Eurosnobs, who think we are gross and uncosmopolitan, need to wake up to the fact the United States of America is, in ways too lengthy to enumerate here, the greatest source of good this planet has ever seen.

    I don't know what you would call THAT, but don't try.
     
  4. Becks7

    Becks7 Member

    Dec 6, 2000
    Hong Kong
    Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire?

    What I can't stand how Americans feel that they are in all ways superior to everybody else on this earth ever since the Monroe Doctrine. Your countries actions in all ways to try you benefit yourselves (NAFTA = biggest mistake EVER). USA's neo-liberalism is crap is the $hits. Your whole goal is continued economic disparity
     
  5. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire?

    All hail the king of unintentional comedy!
     
  6. Roel

    Roel Member

    Jan 15, 2000
    Santa Cruz mountains
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    The question is simple. Is there a better way?

    Karl, the Soviet Union and all their incompetence and evil is gone, or so some of us think.

    For many from the outside, the USA appears very incompetent. I mean, we invaded a country that had nothing to do with the war on terror, and our president retains as a special envoy a guy that is on the payroll of the Saudis, who funded and performed on 9/11.

    If I were a foreignor, I'd think "who cares that the Soviet Union got decimated. Bush is there to replace them." The guy is THAT bad.
     
  7. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    That's taking it waaay too far Roel. Bush, for all of his many faults, is not the reincarnation of Koba. Nor does anyone really think we're the next USSR. Lets be fair here.

    The problem with the question in this thread is that its the same as "US - nizmar of merblip?" Empire and hegemon are REALLY vague terms to throw out there, especially when mixed with globalization, adn provided with absolutely no context. The traditional definition of empire is a political entity that rules peoples whom it has conquered - that doesn't really apply to us since we plan on leaving Iraq (anyone who brings up Hawaii or California deserves to spend a week in a room with Carrotop). As for hegemon - that's a term usually applied to relationships like the Persian domination of the Ionian Greek polities in the 5th century B.C. What exactly it has to do with the US is completely unclear. What are we hegemons of? The Middle East? Not bloody likely.

    I actually think Manny is closest with his hyperpower definition, although I think it goes too far. Our power isn't as unfettered as hyperpower implies. I prefer good ole' fashioned "superpower", even if we are the only one left.
     
  8. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire?

    Whew - for a moment there I thought you were going to grossly generalize.
    And I think you may be the first person to think our "superiority complex" was born at the same time as the Monroe doctrine, when were still a second rate wilderness compared to anything going on in Europe.

    Why don't we ask Mexico how it worked out for them?

    No, our goal is a better economy for the US. We are the US. Is it a surprise that we're aiming for that? I mean, really, are you suggesting that Canada works for the good of all mankind? Btw, aren't you a member of NAFTA? Damn Canadians.
     
  9. DoyleG

    DoyleG Moderator
    Staff Member

    FC Edmonton
    Canada
    Jan 11, 2002
    Victoria, BC
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire?

    That NDP flavoured kool-aid tastes good doesn't it?
     
  10. Maczebus

    Maczebus New Member

    Jun 15, 2002
    Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire?

    I'd call it utter bollocks.
    I seem to remember Alex came out with that comment a bit ago and was rightfully pilloried.

    It's up to other nations and people from those other nations to come to that conclusion - not right-wing, chest thumping posters on a football message board from the country in question.
    Unfortunately- they don't seem to agree with that fact at the moment.
    Dunno why - damn Eurosnobs. What do they know?
     
  11. Sardinia

    Sardinia New Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Sardinia, Italy, EU
    I'd say hegemon.

    central and south america?

    Looking at a map of US military bases worldwide can also help.

    btw It's useless to look for exact matching situation in the past.

    The middle east hegemony is work in progress or anyone really thinks that Iraki invasion was for no reasons?
    Yes the given reasons were poor (lies) but you haven't to be a political genius to figure out the real reasons.
     
  12. Matt Clark

    Matt Clark Member

    Dec 19, 1999
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Erm ... neither?

    At the end of the day, the appreciable, practical difference the US makes to the vast majority of the world's population - good OR bad - is close to zero. It's a nice place, some great people, fun time was had, etc, etc. Bit like France, really. Or Laos. Now there's a nice place.

    A more interesting question would be - who takes this cack too seriously the most: Americans or other people?

    Early lead for 'Americans', courtesy of King Canute up there.
     
  13. bostonsoccermdl

    bostonsoccermdl Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 3, 2002
    Denver, CO
    Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire?

    Pure horseshit. The common trend now is to try to make Americans feel apologetic and guilty of our successes..

    What it comes down to is people like you and your inferiority complexes of your own rising to the surface..
     
  14. bostonsoccermdl

    bostonsoccermdl Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 3, 2002
    Denver, CO
    Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire?

    Huh? Oh, we cant have an opinion now? I didnt realize this was one-sided, since we are the in question. :rolleyes:

    I would guess many of the non-Americans pissing and moaning dont even have a decent idea of what they are talking about, or have visited the United States.
    It is much harder to gather facts and make an intelligent decision, than it is to hop on the anti-american (envious) bandwagon.
     
  15. Maczebus

    Maczebus New Member

    Jun 15, 2002
    Re: Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire?

    Ermmmm - quite...

    Ok, so you want the opinion of how good a 'Ford' is - where do you go? The Ford dealership? I don't think so.

    When you're talking about he effect the US has had on the rest of the world wouldn't it be prudent to actually ask the rest of the world rather than state it as fact?

    And opinons of the US are certainly not as simplistically polarised as you're imagining.
     
  16. bostonsoccermdl

    bostonsoccermdl Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 3, 2002
    Denver, CO
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire?

    Of course! I never had a problem with that. You were the one telling us that it is a one sided discussion.

    I have no problem taking constructive criticism, I have a problem with ignorant people parroting someone else's ideas..

    My point is that although no country is perfect, and we do have some problems that need ironing out, we often are the first ones to be targeted b/c of our previous successes...
     
  17. Maczebus

    Maczebus New Member

    Jun 15, 2002
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire?

    I was? Well - not quite, I just didn't want chest-thumping US types to join in as their input wouldn't be quite so valuable as those with slightly less of an agenda. Much like I wouldn't ask my Grandad for a rose tint free opinion as to the state of this country and what it's given the world.
    Like you say, open and constructive discussion is what's required.

    I've not got a problem with the US, it's citizens or with the 'good' things it has acheived.
    It's people's problems with perspective I have issues with.
     
  18. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    Re: Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire?

    Riiight. The developed world is envious that 1/5 of American children are in poverty. That 50+ million Americans have no access to health care. About our massive prison population. About our murder rate, and all the gun violence. I don't think so.

    The rest of the world has every right to be nervous when the most barbaric industrialized country on the planet proclaims itself "leader of the free world." I say this as someone who is generally supportive of US foreign policy, but we haven't a moral leg to stand on. We're not envied, we're feared, and rightfully so.
     
  19. Thomas A Fina

    Thomas A Fina Member

    Mar 29, 1999
    Hell
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire?

    That Saviola is better than Donovan?
     
  20. bostonsoccermdl

    bostonsoccermdl Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 3, 2002
    Denver, CO
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire?

    Please, spare me Ben.. sooo typical. Ignoring ALL the good we have done, only to focus on the negative..

    I shouldnt be surprised though, you were the one whose priorities were "saving the art galleries" during the Iraqi war.
     
  21. joseph pakovits

    joseph pakovits New Member

    Apr 29, 1999
    fly-over country
    China, Athens, Rome, Britain, America, ?

    And thanks to Bush, we're no longer respected or believed, either.

    Anyway, the usual course of empire will complete itself in due time. The arrogance and brainless triumphalism of an empire at its zenith is already palpable here and it has already sown the seeds for eventual problems later on. As Scipio said when looking out over a ruined, blazing Carthage: "And one day, too - Rome." Then it will be someone else's turn and someone else's problem. Unless our dear leaders decide to nuke us all first, that is. Thankfully, I'll be long dead before then so laissez les bons temps roulez!
     
  22. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire?

    When there's so much negative, I can't help but focus on it. As a patriotic American, I don't want America to be morally inferior to the Canadians, western Europeans, and many others. We can do so much better.

    As a human being (more important than being an American), I wanted some of humanity's greatest treasures to survive. Guilty as charged.
     
  23. joseph pakovits

    joseph pakovits New Member

    Apr 29, 1999
    fly-over country
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire?

    The plantation owners fed and housed the slaves, dude, but the slaves still whined. What more did those ingrates want, anyway? Why did everyone focus on the negatives? Damn abolitionists! Those pessimists just couldn't appreciate the positives of slavery, could they?

    And no, I'm not saying we're enslaving people, at least not directly, so don't even try to play little word games. If you can't respond to my point re: a balance between positive and negative, please don't bother responding.

    If you believe the good our leaders have done outweighs the negatives, that's your opinion. Many people around the world who have actually been on the receiving end of our goodness and our badness have good cause to disagree with you.
     
  24. NYfutbolfan

    NYfutbolfan Member

    Dec 17, 2000
    LI, NY
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire?

    I would also try to address Ben's quote that the US is morally inferior to Canadians and Western Europeans.


    The people around the world on the receivng end of our deeds must include the Iraqis. Most of the country was living in a state of fear without any freedoms and concerned that one day they would wind up dead at the hands of a killer who had already killed hundreds of thousands of his own people and his sons and cronies commited rape with impunity in addition to countless acts of vulgar, cruel and inhumane torture.

    Whether you agree with W for the reason to enter into a war with Hussein that was definitely about Hussein's removal, how can you say that the people of Iraq are upset that the US went in there. Now, they have at least a few freedoms and some semblance of hope.

    You write about the slaves on the plantation. Well, what were the Iraqi citizenry before the US entered their country? Were they more than slaves? Would you have considered them free?

    If the US had no "moral" reason to invade Iraq, what was Roosevelt's reason for going after Hitler? Do you condemn Roosevelt for going after Hitler? Isn't there some moral equivalence between Hussein and Hitler?
     
  25. Roel

    Roel Member

    Jan 15, 2000
    Santa Cruz mountains
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I was referring to unfettered incompetence, nothing more. In the meantime, I should probably switch to decaf....
     

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