USA goalkeeper discussion thread - Episode IV: A New Hope

In case people missed this..............

MLS expansion club San Diego FC signs its first-ever player (msn.com)

San Diego FC has its first player, and the club didn’t have to look far to find him.

The Major League Soccer club that will begin play in February 2025 signed 17-year-old goalkeeper Duran Ferree to a four-year contract with a club option for a fifth. The plan is to loan him for the 2024 season before San Diego FC opens training camp 13 months from now.

 

Just to respond to the comment above about youth goalkeeper classes...............that position can be really bizarre in terms of projection. More than any other position. The kids who look like they have the highest ceilings at 17 rarely seem to be the ones that end of the best when they're 25. By the time they're 25, some 4-year NCAA player from Fairfield University is starting at the World Cup.

You have all of the guys who went to European academies from previous generations that just disappeared. What does it mean that Kochen is at Barcelona? Historically, it's meant literally nothing. Meanwhile its Tim Melia, who played in the NCAAs for the Fightin' Knights of Lynn University............who has the best career. Stefan Frei was a four year NCAA player.

Its just that kind of thing.

Who were our goalkeepers on the 2017 U17 World Cup? We all thought they were really talented kids. CJ Dos Santos of Benfica. Never played a game for them. Now a backup at Inter Miami. Has played one professional first team game. Justin Garces from Atlanta's academy. Went to UCLA, signed back with Atlanta. Zero professional first team games. Alexander Budnick of the Sockers. Went to Dartmouth. Now an Investment Banking Analyst.

And you can do that over and over and over again with goalkeepers in USYNT squads. 2015 U17 World Cup. Will Pulisic, spent last season as a backup at Minnesota United II. Kevin Silva, now a backup with the Pittsburgh Riverhounds. Eric Lopez of the Galaxy, now a backup with Orange County.

Over and over and over again this happens. Like clockwork.

So I always hesitate to bring up these youth keepers, but I do anyway.

I realize there will be one time in our history that a goakeeper being brought up in a big European academy will amount to something. Maybe it'll be Kochen. I don't know. But it hasn't happened yet. Its more likely that Drake Callendar, a 4 year NCAA player or Roman Celentano, a 3 year NCAA player, will be on the 2030 World Cup squad. Two guys with exactly zero USYNT callups across all levels from U15 to U23.

 

I think the way you look at someone like Kochen is as if he’s a 5 star prospect (to use a college football recruiting analogy). Not all 5 stars hit, and sometimes the better player ends up being the 3 star prospect who came out of nowhere. But the 5 star has a higher percentage chance of becoming an elite player.

These guys are all lottery tickets and a player like Kochen has a higher chance of hitting. It doesn’t mean he necessarily will. What we do know is the program values him greatly, based on comments that have been made about him.

The Matt Turner type stories do happen but they are rare for a reason. His path is an incredible one because virtually no one ever makes it as far as he has taking that path.

 

When it comes to keepers..........................I just think we have to be more patient than with other positions.

We are zero for eternity with youth keepers being brought up in big European academies. There's a reason.

It could be 6 years before Diego Kochen plays a first team game in La Liga. If he ever does. Its like peole making all these projections for all of the keepers we've had in England. Ethan Wady at Chelsea. Chituru Odunze at Leicester. Alex Borto and Damian Las at Fulham. They never go anywhere. We just sent Vicente Reyes from the Atlanta academy to Norwich. 50 bucks says that 3 years from now we'll forget that he even existed. For 30 years this is the case. We can run down all of the youth goalkeepers we've sent to Germany too if you'd like.

So when somebody starts waxing poetic about some youth goalkeeper at a club in a top 5 league................I just take it with a grain of salt. Some day we might be one for eternity. It could be Kochen. I don't know. There is literally nothing anyone can point to in order to suggest Kochen will be a better long-term prospect than Beaudry, Ferree, Eyestone, and all of the domestic kids. Nothing. Literally nothing.

 

We might for a European camp to be the third keeper when we don’t want to call any MLS goalies over during a window where they aren’t stopping. Just as we have in the past for someone like Chituru Odunze.

It’s not crazy we would do that with Kochen, especially if both Steffen and Horvath end up in MLS and our European contingent becomes just Turner and Slonina.

It’s not really indicative of anything but Berhalter has sometimes called in a youth goalie as the third stringer when he’s trying to do MLS teams a solid.

 

Yikes.

Dejan Kulusevski took advantage of Matt Turner’s mistakes. 🥶

🎥 @NBCSportsSoccer pic.twitter.com/nWAikHPtka

— CBS Sports Golazo ⚽️ (@CBSSportsGolazo) December 15, 2023

 

Definitely needs to up his game. Have lots of faith in him to do so.

 

He was benched for making a terrible gaff against Liverpool and can't even play two complete games after his return w/o making another w/ his feet. In yesterday's game he actually made a couple poor clearances... he was only punished for one of them. He looks rattled and scared any time the ball gets passed to him. I have to assume he is going to lose his job. So I am curious as to where your faith is coming from? I am honestly looking for a reason to be hopeful.

 

The door is open for Horvath and the youngsters

 

Don’t forget the guy was first known for a terrible gaffe he made in college that made it onto Sportscenter.

To me it’s where the guy came from and here he’s gotten. He’s clearly got the mentality and drive that he’s going to maximize every ounce of talent that he’s got. He’s playing regularly at a high level and has made some mistakes. Maybe he’ll end up not good enough for that level, but this isn’t the first time he’s had some ups and downs career wise and I’d bet on him to figure it out.

He may see the bench again but the other goalie doesn’t seem to be great either. The real fear is they will bring in someone new in January.

 

Long term Premier League viability looks to be more unlikely for Turner. Doesn’t take him out of national team contention yet though.

 

No..........................but let's not forget his bad moment that did lose us the game at T&T.

Turner wasn't doing this kind of stuff 2 years ago.

Hard to explain. Just like it's hard to explain the "yips" in baseball.

 

This. I feel like he has lost his edge a bit... and having two terrible gaffs in three games is not going to help his confidence. WRT this last gaff... I am even more concerned with his inability to save that ball than his poor clearance. That was not a terribly difficult shot to block. So we know he isn't great with his feet but if he is no longer the shot-stopper he was then he doesn't provide much value. In short, I have NO trust in him with the USMNT right now.... and I really hope someone else emerges before Copa.... which given the time-frame seems pretty unlikely.

 

The vital point is that Turner is not so far ahead that the U.S. gains by having him play every tournament heading into the World Cup.

In the last 13 months, he's played the World Cup, Nations League, and the Gold Cup. Sean Johnson rotated in for 1 match in the Gold Cup, but otherwise Turner played every match.

In the next 18 months, the US will have the Copa America, 2 Nations Leagues, the Olympics, and the Gold Cup. There needs to be another US goalkeeper that starts in several of these tournaments, even if Turner retains the starting job in the Copa America and several of the other ones.

 

I think the problem is not a ton of other goalies are showing themselves worthy of time.

Horvath isn’t even registered with his team, Steffen has been out for a long time with injury (though hopefully will be back soon with Colorado come March, Slonina has had his own recent gaffe, etc.

We’re going to probably look at some new guys in January, but the pickings are slim at current. Feels like we have alot of guys with potential but not a ton who are quite ready right now.

A different goalie will definitely start the Olympics, but for now I’m not looking ahead to the World Cup. It’s really about the Nations League and the Copa America for the time being.

 

I think there is too much emphasis on whether our GKs are playing in Europe. For all other positions I think it is a pretty legit measuring stick (although not the entirely required)... but I am perfectly willing to consider a domestic GK as a starter for the USMNT. Case in point... Is Turner better than Blake? I would take the latter in a heartbeat. That being said... unfortunately, your point still holds domestically. There are four young US GKs I like in the MLS right now... Brady, Callender, Celentano and Schulte.... I am pretty high on Brady... but I see him as an Olympic Squad starter. I am less high on Callender and Celentano but I have become a believer in Schulte. I know a lot of people would disagree with me but I think he is ready for a look with the senior squad. If I had my druthers, I would make him the starter in the January window and add him to the mix in other windows as we approach Copa. That kid can use his feet and his confidence must be sky-high after winning MLS Cup.

 

I’m in agreement on the four US keepers and I’d invite them all to January camp to see how they do compared to each other. I’m all for more opportunity for the MLS guys.

I will be curious how Petrovic does at Chelsea now that he gets a run. Turner was a fairly elite shotstopper in MLS but it hasn’t quite translated yet in the EPL. Petrovic was an even more elite shotstopper at the MLS level and if he doesn’t do well it doesn’t speak well for MLS goalies translating at higher levels.

My general sense is we ride with Turner and give the younger guys opportunities for the time being to see if any seem like they might be good enough. Horvath and Steffen probably aren’t but we can always circle back to both if no one is else proves worthy in the next year or so.

 

How do we go from Keller/Friedel/Hahnemann/Howard/Guzan playing for several Premier League sides and being among the top keepers at non-top 4 clubs and some becoming club legends to the current pool where we have guys registered with PL sides and either not playing or simply looking out of their depth.

Folks keep hyping up Slonina and Brady, sure hope they come up BIG because we may need them sooner than later.

 

He needs someone to keep him on his toes and consistently challenging him to produce his best form for club and country.

 

Exactly. We need an upgrade from even Turner before 2026.

Personally, I’ve damn near given up on Horvath and Steffen. At some point, we need to conclude that both have turned out to be not only good, but a bust.

I don’t know yet if young guys like Callender, Schulte, or Celentano are the answer. Maybe. Maybe they could up their game in time.

Brady and Slonina are the easy players to suggest. We’ll see.

I like Beaudry. But it might be too soon for him.

Kochen might be the chosen one.

 

These boards whined endlessly about Keller, Howard, and Guzan in particular.

Keller because he was getting the chances instead of Friedel. Howard because he wasn't up to the perceived standard of Friedel/Keller, and Guzan because he wasn't up to the standard of Howard.

Turner has gone thru some really good periods for the USMNT. Overall, he was quite good at the World Cup. Let's hope he gets it back. I have no idea what's gone wrong. Confidence, I guess.

On the other side we just have to keep putting keepers into the hopper. Slonina, Brady, Celentano, Callendar, Schulte, etc. Let's keep throwing numbers at it on the younger side. Hopefully a couple more young keepers get some chances.

 

The easy (lazy?) Answer is to say that the US has fallen behind in producing keepers that can play out of the back. Not saying everybody needs to be dropping dimes like Mike Maignan, but you can tell a lot of our guys are rather uncomfortable with thr ball at their feet.

The potential of the Olympic eligible keepers and younger is encouraging, but I still remember how hyped everybody was when Bill Hamid and Sean Johnson broke in and then both had training stints in England.

 

Guzan - Not a bust. But the first top goalkeeping prospect to not emerge as a top class goalkeeper. I never thought he would be the one to lose us games. But he wasn’t going to be the ones to win us games either.

Hamid and Johnson - Did not come close to becoming international level talent. Johnson became a good MLS keeper and decent #3 keeper option.

Steffen and Horvath - Bust.

Turner - Seems to be more of a Guzan than a Howard. Good enough. But he’s arguably the weakest player in our starting XI.

Simply put, goalkeeper (and center back) have become the weakest position on the field for us. Goes to show. Be careful about saying, we can always produce _____.

 

The game changed and our factory of great keepers with bad feet, CB's with bad feet and destroyer only D mids no longer fit what teams needed to even how the US plays now.