US vs. Mexico 11/12/2021: the pre-pre-pre-match thread

Who we should have selected in hindsight...

GK Marcinkowski, Freese, Romero
FB Vines, Duncan, Herrera
CB Miles, Kessler, Pines
MF Flach (over Sands who was recovering from injury), Busio, Williamson, Yuiell (he was in good form then)
AT Mihailovic, Clark, Paredes, Bassett
FW Pepi, Ferreira, Cowell

 

Eh. Its kind of one of those......................maybe. I guess. In the real world it didn't matter.

He wasn't released (neither was Bello), and Atlanta had the right not to release him.

Its worth nothing that Miles Robinson didn't have a particularly good 2020 MLS season. One could make an easy argument that a player like Kessler actually did have a better 2020. Atlanta had a tough 2020 all around, and Robinson was dragged down in that muck.

THis is a "what have you done for me lately" business. And we get why, obviously. We're worried about the here and now. So players who had good 2020s, and so far subpar 2021s, are on the outs. Like Brooks. And players who had indifferent or even bad 2020s, but good 2021s, are now in. Jesus Ferreira is another example on top of Miles Robinson. Jesus Ferreira had a terrible 2020. Now he's back in top gear. [I've often wondered if COVID really effected Jesus Ferreira. He was one of the first MLSers to test positive. Even before they went into the MLS is Back bubble if my memory serves me correctly. He just never got on track.]

Let's remember that in 2020, USMNT-eligible CBs finished first and second in defender of the year voting. Neither were Miles Robinson. Actually the last 5 MLS Defender of the Year winners have been USMNT-eligible centerbacks. Never has it been Miles Robinson.

I just see Miles reaching new levels right now with the USMNT that we haven't seen from him before. Which is great. Its called development.

Anyway, back on topic with this Mexico game. Robinson is a starter for me. But as of right now I haven't chosen who his partner is. I have some club soccer to watch. If Brooks plays the next couple of games for Wolfsburg, proves he's healthy and in good form.................then I start him in this game. This isn't a game for a newbie. I would start Richards in the next game against Jamaica.

[The truth is that we beat Mexico twice this past summer. The starting tandem in the Gold Cup final was Robinson and Sands. The tandem in the Nations League final was Brooks and McKenzie.]

That Jamaica game has banana skin written ALL over it. Let's think of this as a 2-game series and not just the Mexico game. I'm great with starting Richards against them.

 

I wonder if Brooks being in and out of form relies a lot on how his back feels. Hard to do anything when your back hurts.

 

Neither Pulisic nor Reyna on the bench today, or in the game. It is a good bet that neither player will be called up for the Mexico game. There is only one more league game before the Mexico callup, and neither will get more than subsititute minutes if they play at all.

 

Can confirm with whatever the hell it is I did to my back at the gym yesterday. Existence is pain with a back injury, let alone soccer

Miazga and Alaves have a crucial game today to pick up points against Cadiz. Lets see what happens.

Julian Green on the bench against the Germany's energy drink. Tyler Adams is also on the bench for Liepzig.

 

I didn't see Hoppe on Mallorca's gameday roster.

 

Of course, sitting Dest if he is fit, and properly rested, for ANY USMNT game would be a level of coaching malpractice that should get a coach not just fired, but tarred and feathered, and run out of Soccer House on a rail.

 

So, Brooks, Richards, Miazga, & Sargent started today. Musah made bench but DNP. Adams on bench for Leipzig.

Hoppe not in squad.

 

I just want to point out that this saying is at least 50 years old, and I first heard it long after it was said about top-flight centerfielders (like Garry Maddox). And then it was said about NFL cornerbacks like Deion Sanders and Fred Smoot, who, of course, said it about himself.

It's a great line, but it's older than N'golo Kante.

 

Thanks for that. I guess it is an all-purpose line!

 

Yes, he wasn't on there. Must be injured.

 

This.
When you are in pain you start moving slower/later and stop moving sooner than when you are healthy.

Even small back issues will put you out of position in ways that are embarrassing.

 

i wish I had a dime for every time somebody said it was "just one bad game".

 

Defense wasn't really the problem, horrendous player selection and layout of the talent was a bigger deal, and it's worth noting that the team basically kept games to 0-1 goals allowed other than the Honduras game, and the final 2 matches (Honduras 1-2, and Mexico 0-1) involved two separate howlers: Soto inexplicably moving from Forward to RB so he could lay out the worlds worst pass ever, directly to a Mexican attacker, and then traitor Ochoa's howler against Honduras which finally killed off the team.

Not sure how Robinson is supposed to help us score goals. At the end of the day the attack was even worse than the terrible predictions most of us maintained and argued would play out before the tournament started.

1-0 over a bad CR team with a Vines cross.

4-0 over a horrific DR team

0-1 to a Mexican side that looked much better in the olympics than it did in qualifying.

1-2 vs Honduras.

Basically like everyone else, they stomped DR, but otherwise they scored 2 goals in their other 3 games, and gave up 3 in the other 3.

Defense not really an issue, attack was just ghastly, produced nothing. Even the goals scored were basically a crossed finish, and a wonder goal from Yueil, nothing creative.

 

I mean I think we would have ended up with an all MLS Roster for the most part. The only exception would have been maybe Musah and Dest because the Spanish FA requires players in La Liga to be released. But they may have wanted to stay with their clubs for preseason.

The more interesting question for me would have been CCV, EPB, and Miazga (as an overage player), as all three didn’t have their club situations squared away until after the Olympics anyway. Cannon and Hoppe too. You might have been able to convince Man City to let Steffen as an overage player go, but I’m not convinced Ochoa would have switched has the Olympics been on the table (Araujo either). Or at least it wouldn’t have been on the table quite yet. Wright is another one who was in a not great club situation who might have been on the table.

But you could have taken a team that included Tolkin, Gomez, Duncan, Che, Flach, Nyeman, Pomykal, Bassett, Parks, Paredes, Cowell, Milihovic, Ferreira, Pepi, etc and it would have been interesting to watch. And I’m sure I’m forgetting some names too. And that’s also leaving out anyone who played in the Gold Cup.

 

Hoppe got a knock against Real Sociedad, so he was rested against Valencia, but he's better now and will be ready for the Valencia match.

 

I thought it was Austria's? Modified from Thailand.

 

Reyna seems for sure not happening given that he's currently in Austin.

Pulisic we'll see but the key indicator will be whenever he's return to training with the team vs. individually.

 

I have McKenzie and Bello both in my developmental depth chart where I'm putting them in there for the next several windows barring a massive change in form.

Both have high ceilings, especially Bello, both are basically perfect encapsulations of what can go wrong going with kiddos. They're raw, their inexperienced at this level, and it shows, both are playing to their floors right now, and are still members of the extended pool for me, but not justifiable options on a roster unless CB and Fullback are absolutely smashed by injuries. We have at least five or six better performing CB's right here, right now for club and country than McKenzie, period. Bello is at best, the third best LB, for us (4th if you add Dest to that LB depth chart). Let them continue to cook, continue to braise in that developmental stew in MLS and Belgium, keep in touch, but keep them off the roster in November, and January as well unless they blow the doors off over the next three months.

 

Whatever it is, I just do not see it with Mark McKenzie. He’s young enough to not write off completely, but he’s so far behind the curve, barring a greater injury crisis, he’s not making the cut. We don’t have that much time left before the World Cup. We need to start narrowing down our guys who are going to help us there. This isn’t the start of the cycle. We need to pick our guys and develop some chemistry. Brooks, Miles, Walker, and Richards are the main four. Miazga and CCV as alternates. McKenzie is the odd man out.

 

He's definitely not playing like a USMNT CB for club or country right now, but there's a reason he was a prized, captain level CB for the '19 U20's and brought over by Genk. We just aren't seeing it now. Maybe too much change in too short a time, maybe something else. Whatever it is, he has no business making a roster in November.

I'd have the CB's (ignoring health for the moment)
1.Robinson
2.RIchards
3.ZImmerman
4. JAB
5. Miazga

 

Didn't play well at the U-20 WC, captain or not.

 

Not really true. He had a broken ankle, and then a concussion in the spring, and then had an emergency appendicitis at the end of April knocking him out of the tournament entirely other than a run out against Qatar on the final matchday. Unless I'm mistaken, that was his only appearance in the 5 games, and I can't honestly remember much about it, though we kept a clean sheet. He was just hurt/recovering, and couldn't go.

 

That's true, but he didn't play well, and Keita was brought back for the play offs.

 

I almost made a post like this too before I saw yours. I'm not a huge McKenzie fan and wouldn't call him up in November if other options are healthy, but it's not crazy that he's part of the USMNT pool. He was also really good for Philly last year at age 21, and nobody thought it strange that Genk would pay a relatively hefty transfer fee for him at the time.